Retool Around Tatum

[LilRip]

I will humbly submit my POV on this, and it runs fairly similar to yours but with some slight changes. I think a good place to start is modeling our team against a previous champion, and so let’s start with dissecting Tatum’s game to see which other team we can model after:

TATUM: perimeter-based scorer (drives, mid range, threes) who can take on a tremendous offensive load. He has decent vision for a superstar. He doesn’t drive well in traffic and can be turnover prone. He’s a good rebounder, but not in traffic.

Ironically, two names that come to my mind with that description have drastically different games but it speaks to Tatum’s versatility: Dirk Nowitzki and Kobe Bryant. Both are perimeter oriented players and can carry teams with their scoring, but they do it in different ways. Let’s examine their supporting cast and we’ll find that both teams are actually pretty similar:

SUPPORTING CAST

• veteran point guard who isn’t shoot-first, who doesn’t get rattled and can maintain the team’s poise, and has above average 3-pt shooting and above average perimeter defense (Fisher/Kidd)
• elite defensive perimeter player who can guard multiple positions, with above average 3-pt shooting (Marion/Artest/Ariza)
• strong inside presence who can set solid screens and be a dump off target on offense and then can alter shots and inhale rebounds on defense (Chandler/Bynum)
• high-volume scorer who doesn’t always need the ball, can keep the team involved by being a decent passer, and occupies a scoring space complementary to the first option. Being good defensively is a plus, but as long as they’re average/serviceable for their position (and not a sieve), it’ll do (Terry/Gasol)

I think the C’s have a big in TL who can fill the Chandler/Bynum role. And I think they have an elite defender in White who can fill the Artest/Ariza/Marion role. But this team lacks a steady PG (Smart is too erratic) and a complementary scorer (Brown is high volume but occupies the same space as Tatum, often needs the ball to stick with him to create, and is poor at keeping the ball moving).

[celticinorlando]

Giving Brown a super max is going to cripple this team's cap when you have to do the same with Tatum. Has to be one or the other.

[Boston Garden Leprechaun]

this GM never did believe in having a big who can dominate down low to punish teams and then open everything  else up mid to deep range. shoulda traded brown for KD. were pizzing JT away with this clown management and coaching. and maybe ownership. a real big woulda destroyed bam down low.

Who is this dominant post big that's been available that we've refused to acquire?

Yeah, I can't think of many. There aren't many high-scoring bigs (Embiid, Jokic, Giannis (?), Markannen, Randle, Porzingis), even less of which are low-post oriented.

Maybe a fringe big like Siakam, or a lesser scorer like Vucevic/Ayton?

op DID NOT USE THE WORD dominant big..I DID...HE just said low post guy. maybe that is what i should have said as well....leaving out the dominant....remember all the clamoring for cousins and drummond way back when? I was talking about no low posts bigs during stevens tenure total not just now.

so nobody hardly has them? then it should be even easier for them to do great down low. we are coming full circle again. youd have almost nobody to defend them other than joel? jokic? who else?

[gouki88]

this GM never did believe in having a big who can dominate down low to punish teams and then open everything  else up mid to deep range. shoulda traded brown for KD. were pizzing JT away with this clown management and coaching. and maybe ownership. a real big woulda destroyed bam down low.

Who is this dominant post big that's been available that we've refused to acquire?

Yeah, I can't think of many. There aren't many high-scoring bigs (Embiid, Jokic, Giannis (?), Markannen, Randle, Porzingis), even less of which are low-post oriented.

Maybe a fringe big like Siakam, or a lesser scorer like Vucevic/Ayton?

op DID NOT USE THE WORD dominant big..I DID...HE just said low post guy. maybe that is what i should have said as well....leaving out the dominant....remember all the clamoring for cousins and drummond way back when? I was talking about no low posts bigs during stevens tenure total not just now.

so nobody hardly has them? then it should be even easier for them to do great down low. we are coming full circle again. youd have almost nobody to defend them other than joel? jokic? who else?

In that case I agree. I would like to add a big bodied 5 who is capable of starting at a low level. A Baynes type to deal with the stronger opposition bigs, grab boards, set screens and intimidate. Trouble is getting one.

My years-long quest for Valanciunas continues 

[Celtics4ever]

 The key problem is our stars lack mental toughness.   This includes Tatum.

[scaryjerry]

Tatum wasn’t good in these playoffs. Great game 7 against Philadelphia, which was mostly him just catching fire from 3. Im sure his overall numbers look good so don’t bother telling me about those. I watched every game and he was a nervous wreck half the time that checked out at points during almost every game.
Of course he’s going to get a pass for this because he tweaked his ankle last night but we he was useless last night.

[Surferdad]

I will humbly submit my POV on this, and it runs fairly similar to yours but with some slight changes. I think a good place to start is modeling our team against a previous champion, and so let’s start with dissecting Tatum’s game to see which other team we can model after:

TATUM: perimeter-based scorer (drives, mid range, threes) who can take on a tremendous offensive load. He has decent vision for a superstar. He doesn’t drive well in traffic and can be turnover prone. He’s a good rebounder, but not in traffic.

Ironically, two names that come to my mind with that description have drastically different games but it speaks to Tatum’s versatility: Dirk Nowitzki and Kobe Bryant. Both are perimeter oriented players and can carry teams with their scoring, but they do it in different ways. Let’s examine their supporting cast and we’ll find that both teams are actually pretty similar:

SUPPORTING CAST

• veteran point guard who isn’t shoot-first, who doesn’t get rattled and can maintain the team’s poise, and has above average 3-pt shooting and above average perimeter defense (Fisher/Kidd)
• elite defensive perimeter player who can guard multiple positions, with above average 3-pt shooting (Marion/Artest/Ariza)
• strong inside presence who can set solid screens and be a dump off target on offense and then can alter shots and inhale rebounds on defense (Chandler/Bynum)
• high-volume scorer who doesn’t always need the ball, can keep the team involved by being a decent passer, and occupies a scoring space complementary to the first option. Being good defensively is a plus, but as long as they’re average/serviceable for their position (and not a sieve), it’ll do (Terry/Gasol)

I think the C’s have a big in TL who can fill the Chandler/Bynum role. And I think they have an elite defender in White who can fill the Artest/Ariza/Marion role. But this team lacks a steady PG (Smart is too erratic) and a complementary scorer (Brown is high volume but occupies the same space as Tatum, often needs the ball to stick with him to create, and is poor at keeping the ball moving).

This is a really good analysis, but I can see the real debate coming. It's not whether to trade JB, but whether to trade Smart.  I'm just not ready to go there. Smart is a decent point guard who also adds outstanding individual and team defense. He is a "glue guy" that every championship team needs. Does he take ill-advised threes? Yes, sometimes, but he also makes winning defensive plays that many better shooting point guards do not.

[Who]

I will humbly submit my POV on this

SUPPORTING CAST

• veteran point guard who isn’t shoot-first, who doesn’t get rattled and can maintain the team’s poise, and has above average 3-pt shooting and above average perimeter defense (Fisher/Kidd)
• elite defensive perimeter player who can guard multiple positions, with above average 3-pt shooting (Marion/Artest/Ariza)

 And I think they have an elite defender in White who can fill the Artest/Ariza/Marion role. But this team lacks a steady PG (Smart is too erratic)

I see D White as the steady PG rather than the wing defender here. He is a bit small as the wing defender. He has the right temperment for the steady PG.

[Surferdad]

Giving Brown a super max is going to cripple this team's cap when you have to do the same with Tatum. Has to be one or the other.

I said this in the "Brown Needs To Go" thread: JT is strongly committed to JB and that's fine if it succeeds. It will be tough for JT is say goodbye to JB as a teammate but perhaps it will be a blessing in disguise for our superstar. Bring in a more complementary all-star, more veteran presence and BBIQ and a true center to balance out the roster.

[Boston Garden Leprechaun]

this GM never did believe in having a big who can dominate down low to punish teams and then open everything  else up mid to deep range. shoulda traded brown for KD. were pizzing JT away with this clown management and coaching. and maybe ownership. a real big woulda destroyed bam down low.

Who is this dominant post big that's been available that we've refused to acquire?

Yeah, I can't think of many. There aren't many high-scoring bigs (Embiid, Jokic, Giannis (?), Markannen, Randle, Porzingis), even less of which are low-post oriented.

Maybe a fringe big like Siakam, or a lesser scorer like Vucevic/Ayton?

op DID NOT USE THE WORD dominant big..I DID...HE just said low post guy. maybe that is what i should have said as well....leaving out the dominant....remember all the clamoring for cousins and drummond way back when? I was talking about no low posts bigs during stevens tenure total not just now.

so nobody hardly has them? then it should be even easier for them to do great down low. we are coming full circle again. youd have almost nobody to defend them other than joel? jokic? who else?

In that case I agree. I would like to add a big bodied 5 who is capable of starting at a low level. A Baynes type to deal with the stronger opposition bigs, grab boards, set screens and intimidate. Trouble is getting one.

My years-long quest for Valanciunas continues
[/quote

 agreed. maybe you are right if nobody is playing low post as a big anymore we'd have to start from scratch. it is why i feel we are coming full circle. seems like it is time to go back to that.  nobody doing it anymore. we would need a player who has trained/played  as a low post scorer.

[BringToughnessBack]

Giving Brown a super max is going to cripple this team's cap when you have to do the same with Tatum. Has to be one or the other.

I said this in the "Brown Needs To Go" thread: JT is strongly committed to JB and that's fine if it succeeds. It will be tough for JT is say goodbye to JB as a teammate but perhaps it will be a blessing in disguise for our superstar. Bring in a more complementary all-star, more veteran presence and BBIQ and a true center to balance out the roster.

Yeah, we could have a problem getting rid of Brown if Tatum demands he gets signed. p i ss off Tatum off and run risk of losing both. I want a team around Tatum for sure. The question is how much power does/will Tatum have in deciding Brown's future. I have a strong feeling it is a lot.

[Moranis]

Glad to see more and more people coming around to the Moranis way of thinking.  Only been pushing for this exact thing for years.  This is Tatum's team and every move should be about maximizing Tatum.

How about something like this (all 4 trades work individually but I don't know about collectively with the new rules)

Brown, Kornet for Davis

Smart, Brogdon, Gallo, Pritchard for Paul, Ayton

R. Williams, Muscala for Anunoby

G. Williams for McConnell, Nwora

Starters - Paul, White, Tatum, Davis, Ayton
Rotation - McConnell, Nwora, Hauser, Horford, Anunoby
Deep Bench - Davison, 35, Champagnie

Add a veteran SG with tax mle and a completely rebuilt team. Better balance and better overall.

[Kernewek]

Glad to see more and more people coming around to the Moranis way of thinking.  Only been pushing for this exact thing for years.  This is Tatum's team and every move should be about maximizing Tatum.

How about something like this (all 4 trades work individually but I don't know about collectively with the new rules)

Brown, Kornet for Davis

Smart, Brogdon, Gallo, Pritchard for Paul, Ayton

R. Williams, Muscala for Anunoby

G. Williams for McConnell, Nwora

Starters - Paul, White, Tatum, Davis, Ayton
Rotation - McConnell, Nwora, Hauser, Horford, Anunoby
Deep Bench - Davison, 35, Champagnie

Add a veteran SG with tax mle and a completely rebuilt team. Better balance and better overall.

My first thought is that any team relying on Chris Paul as a starter in 2023-2024 has some serious question marks. If we presume Durant and Tatum are equal talent - how is this team getting any further than the Suns did this season?

[Moranis]

Glad to see more and more people coming around to the Moranis way of thinking.  Only been pushing for this exact thing for years.  This is Tatum's team and every move should be about maximizing Tatum.

How about something like this (all 4 trades work individually but I don't know about collectively with the new rules)

Brown, Kornet for Davis

Smart, Brogdon, Gallo, Pritchard for Paul, Ayton

R. Williams, Muscala for Anunoby

G. Williams for McConnell, Nwora

Starters - Paul, White, Tatum, Davis, Ayton
Rotation - McConnell, Nwora, Hauser, Horford, Anunoby
Deep Bench - Davison, 35, Champagnie

Add a veteran SG with tax mle and a completely rebuilt team. Better balance and better overall.

My first thought is that any team relying on Chris Paul as a starter in 2023-2024 has some serious question marks. If we presume Durant and Tatum are equal talent - how is this team getting any further than the Suns did this season?

Yes. Thst team is better than the current Boston team which just made the conference finals. As for the Suns, that C's team is much better defensively than the Suns and has much better size to deal with Jokic, Giannis, and Embiid.  Davis for all his offensive issues, still defends incredibly well and while Ayton is not a good defender he does rebound at a high level. Horford off the bench adds a quality 3rd big and his minutes will be reduced (at least when Davis is healthy). 

The only real concern I'd have is at what point in time both Davis and Paul have their annual injuries.  That is a real concern,  but Davis was healthy when it mattered this year and I do think having Ayton and Horford with him will help his load.  Paul will get hurt at some point as well, but it isn't like Smart and Brogdon don't have injury concerns and that trade was more about getting Ayton.  That said, when Paul is playing, I think his steady hand is what Tatum needs at point, which was the point of the exercise.

[keevsnick]

Glad to see more and more people coming around to the Moranis way of thinking.  Only been pushing for this exact thing for years.  This is Tatum's team and every move should be about maximizing Tatum.

How about something like this (all 4 trades work individually but I don't know about collectively with the new rules)

Brown, Kornet for Davis

Smart, Brogdon, Gallo, Pritchard for Paul, Ayton

R. Williams, Muscala for Anunoby

G. Williams for McConnell, Nwora

Starters - Paul, White, Tatum, Davis, Ayton
Rotation - McConnell, Nwora, Hauser, Horford, Anunoby
Deep Bench - Davison, 35, Champagnie

Add a veteran SG with tax mle and a completely rebuilt team. Better balance and better overall.

I might do Brown for Davis, except Davis already made it clear once he's not resigning here so that's a no go given he's on an expiring. Again, at least with brown you have the super max offer in your back pocket. Davis is a huge flight risk. 

The Ayton/Paul deal is awful. We just saw that Ayton stinks, is a huge negative on his contract, and Paul is never healthy. the suns are trying to flat out dump those guys in all likelihood.

The Raptors aren't trading Anunoby for Williams. A high level wing for a Center with injury history is a non starter. They are re-signing Poetl.