Fire Joe! ... or critique Joe ... or defend Joe... or worry about Joe's coaching

[Roy H.]

Adam Himmelsbach @AdamHimmelsbach
yesterday
Tatum said that after he signed his extension Saturday, coach Joe Mazzulla couldn?t help himself. ?Joe was already trying to draw up [stuff]for next season. I was like, ?Joe, [screw] that. We just won the championship.??

Haha.  Good for Joe.  That's a football coach mentality, and I love it.

[Vermont Green]

Mazzulla was 4th in the Coach of the Year voting, including 2 first place votes.  He has since coached a team to a title at age 36.  I don't know if a poll can be added to an ongoing thread but where do people rank Mazzulla now?

    Best Coach in League
    Top 3
    Top 5
    Top 10
    Top 15
    Bottom 15
    Bottom 5

Personally, I like Joe as a coach, and I was probably considered a defender.  Not so lonely defending him now.  But I find it really hard to rank coaches.  I would probably have him somewhere between top 10 and top 5, but I couldn't list who the better coaches are.  Terry Francona said it best, (and I am sure others have said it) that coaches get too much credit when teams win and too much blame when they lose.

[Kernewek]

Top 10 with a strong argument for Top 5, I'd say.

[celticsclay]

Mazzulla was 4th in the Coach of the Year voting, including 2 first place votes.  He has since coached a team to a title at age 36.  I don't know if a poll can be added to an ongoing thread but where do people rank Mazzulla now?

    Best Coach in League
    Top 3
    Top 5
    Top 10
    Top 15
    Bottom 15
    Bottom 5

Personally, I like Joe as a coach, and I was probably considered a defender.  Not so lonely defending him now.  But I find it really hard to rank coaches.  I would probably have him somewhere between top 10 and top 5, but I couldn't list who the better coaches are.  Terry Francona said it best, (and I am sure others have said it) that coaches get too much credit when teams win and too much blame when they lose.

I have definitely moved him into top half after previously having him bottom half coming into the season. Beyond that it is really hard for me to rank because we have so much talent. Never forget luke Walton had like an all time winning percentage for the warriors but was a really lousy couch. In that same realm, how Kerr with less talent is regarded less highly. I think spoelstra and nurse and thibs are quite good coaches. I?m not too sure beyond that.

[Moranis]

He is clearly behind Spo, Kerr, and Pop.  After that I think you could make an argument for him over anyone else, though I'd have him behind Thibs, Carlisle, Malone, and Lue. A couple of guys I need to see this year to get a better feel like Nurse, Atkinson, Daigneault, Mosley

[Goldstar88]

Mazzulla was 4th in the Coach of the Year voting, including 2 first place votes.  He has since coached a team to a title at age 36.  I don't know if a poll can be added to an ongoing thread but where do people rank Mazzulla now?

    Best Coach in League
    Top 3
    Top 5
    Top 10
    Top 15
    Bottom 15
    Bottom 5

Personally, I like Joe as a coach, and I was probably considered a defender.  Not so lonely defending him now.  But I find it really hard to rank coaches.  I would probably have him somewhere between top 10 and top 5, but I couldn't list who the better coaches are.  Terry Francona said it best, (and I am sure others have said it) that coaches get too much credit when teams win and too much blame when they lose.

And I was considered the #1 Joe apologist. 

[Donoghus]

I'd say he's top 5 right now.  Hell, he just had a season where his team went 80-21 and won the title. 

It's a player driven league but you still need someone to hold them together.

[green_bballers13]

Joe is probably a top 15 coach. It was unfair to judge him in his first year, and I think it's unfair to other coaches with a lot more experience to rank him top 5.

He's done what he has needed to do, and I'm happy that he's our coach. I don't see the need to overreact positively or negatively.

[green_bballers13]

Mazzulla was 4th in the Coach of the Year voting, including 2 first place votes.  He has since coached a team to a title at age 36.  I don't know if a poll can be added to an ongoing thread but where do people rank Mazzulla now?

    Best Coach in League
    Top 3
    Top 5
    Top 10
    Top 15
    Bottom 15
    Bottom 5

Personally, I like Joe as a coach, and I was probably considered a defender.  Not so lonely defending him now.  But I find it really hard to rank coaches.  I would probably have him somewhere between top 10 and top 5, but I couldn't list who the better coaches are.  Terry Francona said it best, (and I am sure others have said it) that coaches get too much credit when teams win and too much blame when they lose.

And I was considered the #1 Joe apologist. 

Ha I didn't see anyone that was over the moon for Joe. I did see people trying to defend him from craziness though.

[Roy H.]

I think Joe is still below average with the in-game stuff.  Timeouts, in-game adjustments, etc.  Rotations outside of the top-8 are questionable.

He was very good this season at preparing the team, keeping them motivated, etc.  The locker room was spectacular.  That's more important than the Xs and Os.

[Indocelts]

Agreed. Also, his ATO in crunch time needs to be better next year. He needs to be more creative than just giving  the ball to Tatum.

[boscel33]

Agreed. Also, his ATO in crunch time needs to be better next year. He needs to be more creative than just giving  the ball to Tatum.

Tatum needs to fix what's wrong with him.  Look at the comparison of his shot from three or so years ago to now.  It's off!

[green_bballers13]

I think Joe is still below average with the in-game stuff.  Timeouts, in-game adjustments, etc.  Rotations outside of the top-8 are questionable.

He was very good this season at preparing the team, keeping them motivated, etc.  The locker room was spectacular.  That's more important than the Xs and Os.

What do you think about the argument from Ryen Russillo, Zach Lowe, etc. that fans aren't equipped to make these determinations? There's too much going on behind the scenes, so fans are only seeing the tip of the iceberg.

Regarding "timeoutgate": Imagine if people criticized Belichick for not calling a TO at the end of the Super Bowl. Bill had generated so much goodwill that people knew that it was foolish to criticize his X's and O's.

Joe won't reach Bill's stature, but he should gain more respect after winning a ring.

[Kernewek]

I think Joe is still below average with the in-game stuff.  Timeouts, in-game adjustments, etc.  Rotations outside of the top-8 are questionable.

He was very good this season at preparing the team, keeping them motivated, etc.  The locker room was spectacular.  That's more important than the Xs and Os.

What do you think about the argument from Ryen Russillo, Zach Lowe, etc. that fans aren't equipped to make these determinations? There's too much going on behind the scenes, so fans are only seeing the tip of the iceberg.

Regarding "timeoutgate": Imagine if people criticized Belichick for not calling a TO at the end of the Super Bowl. Bill had generated so much goodwill that people knew that it was foolish to criticize his X's and O's.

Joe won't reach Bill's stature, but he should gain more respect after winning a ring.

I?m not Roy, but while I think it?s a decent heuristic (in the Jrue thread I added a similar one about the ability to identify problems does not lend credence to any proposed solutions) it?s not as good as evaluating the arguments that are actually presented.

E.g. I am more likely to trust a physicist about physics but they can (and do) say things in the area that are incorrect. 

[BitterJim]

Mazzulla was 4th in the Coach of the Year voting, including 2 first place votes.  He has since coached a team to a title at age 36.  I don't know if a poll can be added to an ongoing thread but where do people rank Mazzulla now?

    Best Coach in League
    Top 3
    Top 5
    Top 10
    Top 15
    Bottom 15
    Bottom 5

Personally, I like Joe as a coach, and I was probably considered a defender.  Not so lonely defending him now.  But I find it really hard to rank coaches.  I would probably have him somewhere between top 10 and top 5, but I couldn't list who the better coaches are.  Terry Francona said it best, (and I am sure others have said it) that coaches get too much credit when teams win and too much blame when they lose.

He's in a big 6-way tie for 3rd most rings among active coaches, so by that metric he's top 10. I don't see any major reasons to drop him further so I guess that's where I'd keep him. He also has gotten the team to buy in and all sacrifice for a common goal which is probably his most important job. It's really hard to judge a guy with only 2 years under his belt, though.

I think he has a path to being a top 5 coach, and it starts with us repeating as champions and the ATO/end of quarter plays getting better/more varied. In terms of our overall offensive and defensive schemes, people may not love them but you can't deny that they're effective, and we have enough variations/adjustments that we can make to take advantage of most opponents weaknesses. Hopefully that continues/expands next season.