Fire Joe! ... or critique Joe ... or defend Joe... or worry about Joe's coaching

[SparzWizard]

I actually don?t think Joe struggled that much in his first year. He made it pretty far into the playoffs. Compared to Red Auerbach, he wasn?t good. Compared to other rookie coaches, he was great.

Joe has dealt with unrealistic expectations since day 1.

He struggled in the ECF vs Miami. That was the breaking point really.

Things would've went south real quick if the C's got swept by a #8 seed in the ECF

[green_bballers13]

I actually don?t think Joe struggled that much in his first year. He made it pretty far into the playoffs. Compared to Red Auerbach, he wasn?t good. Compared to other rookie coaches, he was great.

Joe has dealt with unrealistic expectations since day 1.

He struggled in the ECF vs Miami. That was the breaking point really.

It was certainly a data point. I think the analysis broke down when people stopped introducing new data points into their thinking. It was a fixed vs growth mindset.

[Roy H.]

I actually don?t think Joe struggled that much in his first year. He made it pretty far into the playoffs. Compared to Red Auerbach, he wasn?t good. Compared to other rookie coaches, he was great.

Joe has dealt with unrealistic expectations since day 1.

He struggled in the ECF vs Miami. That was the breaking point really.

It was certainly a data point. I think the analysis broke down when people stopped introducing new data points into their thinking. It was a fixed vs growth mindset.

I don't think a single person did that.

The Miami series resulted in our playoff exit, a series earlier than the prior season despite more talent.  That was after shaky series against Atlanta and Philly.

The new data points were the 2024 regular season and each subsequent playoff series.  Joe was reassessed, and has proven that the team can win a title with him.

That's why this thread was dormant, until you got bored and bumped it.

[Phantom255x]

I agree in 2023 he definitely lost the team and that squad clearly had some behind the scenes issues too. But idk if I put that entirely on Mazzulla. I mean... he came into a pretty bizarre situation to begin with since Ime's scandal happened right before the season so it was all a quick turnaround.

We lost the ECF because of the players, lack of execution and some egos. If anyone thinks we lost only because of Mazzulla then I completely disagree. He was part of the problem but not the only or primary reason.

And say what you will, but the team absolutely played for him in 2024 and I thought Mazzulla handled the media and team a lot better than 2023. Again, learning curve and growth. It happens people, not everyone dominates in their first year or rookie season of some sorts.

[SparzWizard]

I agree in 2023 he definitely lost the team and that squad clearly had some behind the scenes issues too. But idk if I put that entirely on Mazzulla. I mean... he came into a pretty bizarre situation to begin with since Ime's scandal happened right before the season so it was all a quick turnaround.

We lost the ECF because of the players, lack of execution and some egos. If anyone thinks we lost only because of Mazzulla then I completely disagree. He was part of the problem but not the only or primary reason.

And say what you will, but the team absolutely played for him in 2024 and I thought Mazzulla handled the media and team a lot better than 2023. Again, learning curve and growth. It happens people, not everyone dominates in their first year or rookie season of some sorts.

Don't forget if we didn't flip Robert Williams, Marcus Smart, Malcolm Brogdon, and Danilo Gallinari for Jrue Holiday and Kristaps Porzingis and didn't let Grant Williams go...I don't think the C's even get past the second round nor secure a #1 seed.

[green_bballers13]

I agree in 2023 he definitely lost the team and that squad clearly had some behind the scenes issues too. But idk if I put that entirely on Mazzulla. I mean... he came into a pretty bizarre situation to begin with since Ime's scandal happened right before the season so it was all a quick turnaround.

We lost the ECF because of the players, lack of execution and some egos. If anyone thinks we lost only because of Mazzulla then I completely disagree. He was part of the problem but not the only or primary reason.

And say what you will, but the team absolutely played for him in 2024 and I thought Mazzulla handled the media and team a lot better than 2023. Again, learning curve and growth. It happens people, not everyone dominates in their first year or rookie season of some sorts.

Don't forget if we didn't flip Robert Williams, Marcus Smart, Malcolm Brogdon, and Danilo Gallinari for Jrue Holiday and Kristaps Porzingis and didn't let Grant Williams go...I don't think the C's even get past the second round nor secure a #1 seed.

The anxiety got to people. It led to unrealistic expectations and irrational thinking.

[Roy H.]

I agree in 2023 he definitely lost the team and that squad clearly had some behind the scenes issues too. But idk if I put that entirely on Mazzulla. I mean... he came into a pretty bizarre situation to begin with since Ime's scandal happened right before the season so it was all a quick turnaround.

We lost the ECF because of the players, lack of execution and some egos. If anyone thinks we lost only because of Mazzulla then I completely disagree. He was part of the problem but not the only or primary reason.

And say what you will, but the team absolutely played for him in 2024 and I thought Mazzulla handled the media and team a lot better than 2023. Again, learning curve and growth. It happens people, not everyone dominates in their first year or rookie season of some sorts.

Don't forget if we didn't flip Robert Williams, Marcus Smart, Malcolm Brogdon, and Danilo Gallinari for Jrue Holiday and Kristaps Porzingis and didn't let Grant Williams go...I don't think the C's even get past the second round nor secure a #1 seed.

The anxiety got to people. It led to unrealistic expectations and irrational thinking.

Expecting a team that made the Finals in 2023 and then added the 6MOY to beat an 8th seed that was missing multiple rotation players wasn't unrealistic or irrational. 

[Goldstar88]

I agree in 2023 he definitely lost the team and that squad clearly had some behind the scenes issues too. But idk if I put that entirely on Mazzulla. I mean... he came into a pretty bizarre situation to begin with since Ime's scandal happened right before the season so it was all a quick turnaround.

We lost the ECF because of the players, lack of execution and some egos. If anyone thinks we lost only because of Mazzulla then I completely disagree. He was part of the problem but not the only or primary reason.

And say what you will, but the team absolutely played for him in 2024 and I thought Mazzulla handled the media and team a lot better than 2023. Again, learning curve and growth. It happens people, not everyone dominates in their first year or rookie season of some sorts.

Don't forget if we didn't flip Robert Williams, Marcus Smart, Malcolm Brogdon, and Danilo Gallinari for Jrue Holiday and Kristaps Porzingis and didn't let Grant Williams go...I don't think the C's even get past the second round nor secure a #1 seed.

The anxiety got to people. It led to unrealistic expectations and irrational thinking.

Expecting a team that made the Finals in 2023 and then added the 6MOY to beat an 8th seed that was missing multiple rotation players wasn't unrealistic or irrational.

To be fair, that 8th seed made it to the ECF the year before. Miami also beat the Bucks 4-1 and the Knicks 4-2 before defeating the Celtics in 7 games. They were a good team.

[Roy H.]

I agree in 2023 he definitely lost the team and that squad clearly had some behind the scenes issues too. But idk if I put that entirely on Mazzulla. I mean... he came into a pretty bizarre situation to begin with since Ime's scandal happened right before the season so it was all a quick turnaround.

We lost the ECF because of the players, lack of execution and some egos. If anyone thinks we lost only because of Mazzulla then I completely disagree. He was part of the problem but not the only or primary reason.

And say what you will, but the team absolutely played for him in 2024 and I thought Mazzulla handled the media and team a lot better than 2023. Again, learning curve and growth. It happens people, not everyone dominates in their first year or rookie season of some sorts.

Don't forget if we didn't flip Robert Williams, Marcus Smart, Malcolm Brogdon, and Danilo Gallinari for Jrue Holiday and Kristaps Porzingis and didn't let Grant Williams go...I don't think the C's even get past the second round nor secure a #1 seed.

The anxiety got to people. It led to unrealistic expectations and irrational thinking.

Expecting a team that made the Finals in 2023 and then added the 6MOY to beat an 8th seed that was missing multiple rotation players wasn't unrealistic or irrational.

To be fair, that 8th seed made it to the ECF the year before. Miami also beat the Bucks 4-1 and the Knicks 4-2 before defeating the Celtics in 7 games. They were a good team.

Good, not great.  Nowhere near as good as the Celtics in terms of talent.

And, beating the Bucks without a healthy Giannis isn't that impressive.

[jambr380]

I agree in 2023 he definitely lost the team and that squad clearly had some behind the scenes issues too. But idk if I put that entirely on Mazzulla. I mean... he came into a pretty bizarre situation to begin with since Ime's scandal happened right before the season so it was all a quick turnaround.

We lost the ECF because of the players, lack of execution and some egos. If anyone thinks we lost only because of Mazzulla then I completely disagree. He was part of the problem but not the only or primary reason.

And say what you will, but the team absolutely played for him in 2024 and I thought Mazzulla handled the media and team a lot better than 2023. Again, learning curve and growth. It happens people, not everyone dominates in their first year or rookie season of some sorts.

Don't forget if we didn't flip Robert Williams, Marcus Smart, Malcolm Brogdon, and Danilo Gallinari for Jrue Holiday and Kristaps Porzingis and didn't let Grant Williams go...I don't think the C's even get past the second round nor secure a #1 seed.

Only because of injuries. If Smart, Brogdon, Williams, and Gallo are all somehow healthy in 2024, then that is a better squad than we had in these past playoffs with KP out. I think people really underrate how shell shocked the team and Mazzulla were after the Ime firing at the last second. Our top assistant in Stoudamire even ditched us midseason because he was so miffed.

There's a decent chance we win in 2023 (or obviously at least beat the Heat) without the Ime disaster. We should all collectively hate that guy. He literally took away from us one year of our team seriously contending. Joe deserves a lot of credit for rallying the team and the organization deserves credit for surrounding him with [over]qualified assistants. It's impressive how he was able to regain everybody's trust. It's unlikely he keeps his job with most other franchises. Brad really trusted in him and it paid off.

[SHAQATTACK]

Jays to Joe ?

? we GOT this !

[green_bballers13]

Yup, Ime was the bad actor for the Celtics, not Joe. That got flipped somehow.

[Kernewek]

I agree in 2023 he definitely lost the team and that squad clearly had some behind the scenes issues too. But idk if I put that entirely on Mazzulla. I mean... he came into a pretty bizarre situation to begin with since Ime's scandal happened right before the season so it was all a quick turnaround.

We lost the ECF because of the players, lack of execution and some egos. If anyone thinks we lost only because of Mazzulla then I completely disagree. He was part of the problem but not the only or primary reason.

And say what you will, but the team absolutely played for him in 2024 and I thought Mazzulla handled the media and team a lot better than 2023. Again, learning curve and growth. It happens people, not everyone dominates in their first year or rookie season of some sorts.

Don't forget if we didn't flip Robert Williams, Marcus Smart, Malcolm Brogdon, and Danilo Gallinari for Jrue Holiday and Kristaps Porzingis and didn't let Grant Williams go...I don't think the C's even get past the second round nor secure a #1 seed.

The anxiety got to people. It led to unrealistic expectations and irrational thinking.

Expecting a team that made the Finals in 2023 and then added the 6MOY to beat an 8th seed that was missing multiple rotation players wasn't unrealistic or irrational.

To be fair, that 8th seed made it to the ECF the year before. Miami also beat the Bucks 4-1 and the Knicks 4-2 before defeating the Celtics in 7 games. They were a good team.

Good, not great.  Nowhere near as good as the Celtics in terms of talent.

And, beating the Bucks without a healthy Giannis isn't that impressive.

That's what happens when you get lucky, though. Things fell the right way for Miami over the course of that series and they overachieved. It happens.

[Goldstar88]

I agree in 2023 he definitely lost the team and that squad clearly had some behind the scenes issues too. But idk if I put that entirely on Mazzulla. I mean... he came into a pretty bizarre situation to begin with since Ime's scandal happened right before the season so it was all a quick turnaround.

We lost the ECF because of the players, lack of execution and some egos. If anyone thinks we lost only because of Mazzulla then I completely disagree. He was part of the problem but not the only or primary reason.

And say what you will, but the team absolutely played for him in 2024 and I thought Mazzulla handled the media and team a lot better than 2023. Again, learning curve and growth. It happens people, not everyone dominates in their first year or rookie season of some sorts.

Don't forget if we didn't flip Robert Williams, Marcus Smart, Malcolm Brogdon, and Danilo Gallinari for Jrue Holiday and Kristaps Porzingis and didn't let Grant Williams go...I don't think the C's even get past the second round nor secure a #1 seed.

The anxiety got to people. It led to unrealistic expectations and irrational thinking.

Expecting a team that made the Finals in 2023 and then added the 6MOY to beat an 8th seed that was missing multiple rotation players wasn't unrealistic or irrational.

To be fair, that 8th seed made it to the ECF the year before. Miami also beat the Bucks 4-1 and the Knicks 4-2 before defeating the Celtics in 7 games. They were a good team.

Good, not great.  Nowhere near as good as the Celtics in terms of talent.

And, beating the Bucks without a healthy Giannis isn't that impressive.

That's what happens when you get lucky, though. Things fell the right way for Miami over the course of that series and they overachieved. It happens.

I?m not sure it was luck. Miami shot lights out throughout the playoffs that year. Also, Giannis had 38pts/20rebs in the final game of their series. Maybe he wasn?t 100%, but he wasn?t exactly a shell of himself either. In the series vs the Celtics, the Heat shot 43% from 3pt. They were on fire from deep.

[Roy H.]

I agree in 2023 he definitely lost the team and that squad clearly had some behind the scenes issues too. But idk if I put that entirely on Mazzulla. I mean... he came into a pretty bizarre situation to begin with since Ime's scandal happened right before the season so it was all a quick turnaround.

We lost the ECF because of the players, lack of execution and some egos. If anyone thinks we lost only because of Mazzulla then I completely disagree. He was part of the problem but not the only or primary reason.

And say what you will, but the team absolutely played for him in 2024 and I thought Mazzulla handled the media and team a lot better than 2023. Again, learning curve and growth. It happens people, not everyone dominates in their first year or rookie season of some sorts.

Don't forget if we didn't flip Robert Williams, Marcus Smart, Malcolm Brogdon, and Danilo Gallinari for Jrue Holiday and Kristaps Porzingis and didn't let Grant Williams go...I don't think the C's even get past the second round nor secure a #1 seed.

The anxiety got to people. It led to unrealistic expectations and irrational thinking.

Expecting a team that made the Finals in 2023 and then added the 6MOY to beat an 8th seed that was missing multiple rotation players wasn't unrealistic or irrational.

To be fair, that 8th seed made it to the ECF the year before. Miami also beat the Bucks 4-1 and the Knicks 4-2 before defeating the Celtics in 7 games. They were a good team.

Good, not great.  Nowhere near as good as the Celtics in terms of talent.

And, beating the Bucks without a healthy Giannis isn't that impressive.

That's what happens when you get lucky, though. Things fell the right way for Miami over the course of that series and they overachieved. It happens.

I?m not sure it was luck. Miami shot the lights out throughout the playoffs that year. Also, Giannis had 38pts/20rebs in the final game of their series. Maybe he wasn?t 100%, but he wasn?t exactly a shell of himself either.

Giannis played 10 minutes in Game 1 and missed Games 2 and 3.  That certainly had a giant impact in the series.