Fire Joe! ... or critique Joe ... or defend Joe... or worry about Joe's coaching

[Goldstar88]

Okay, educate me on the Al stuff. What is the rational argument for Joe continuing to rely so heavily on Al when he has been so bad on both ends and is ultimately just a mismatch target and opportunity for the Cavs at this point? They're only going to beat us with a ton of threes, so what sense does it make to continuously grant them open three point opportunities every possession by virtue of playing our immobile bigs? How do you not even try X in a game like tonight or last game, despite him playing very well in the limited minutes in games one and two?

Al was +11 tonight. Led the team.

An excellent example of why individual +/- games are the absolute worst metric to use to gauge a player's performance. No person in their right mind watched that game and thought that Al was an essential part of putting up 11 more points during his time on the floor tonight.

Beyond the defense, offensively he doesn't even really create spacing anymore given how poor he's shooting. They're playing more off of him than I've ever seen.

Or maybe you are underestimating his defense.  Mobley, for example, had 13 of his 19 points when Horford was on the bench.  Garland also picked up his scoring a lot when Al was on the bench, because there was a lot more room for him to operate. Kornet is just a bad defender. He got torched, while Horford knows where to be and when to be their defensively.  That stuff matters a lot, especially to playing winning basketball.

Horford also had zero turnovers and zero personal fouls. This is why Joe sticks with him despite having an off night. He knows Al is going to make the right play more often than not.


Side note- Cavs took 48 shots from 3pt tonight. C’s had 32. 

[Roy H.]

Joe doesn't trust Tillman yet.  I think it's a mistake not to play him, but Joe usually sticks with who he knows.

That's the conclusion I came to in the game thread as well. He obviously doesn't trust X or Q to do what we the fans think they should be capable of doing. He trusts Luke but not those guys, at least not when the game is still in question. He's had a number of opportunities to play them so there's something he and his staff are seeing that we are not. Maybe it's  a lack of chemistry with the other players, or they have to think about where they need to be in the defensive scheme as opposed to just being there, or Al is one of the leaders when it comes to calling where people should be, or they want someone who the Cavs can't cheat off defending on the perimeter, or any number of things.

Or Joe could just be an idiot, and since this is the Fire Joe thread, that's also more than likely 

It's hard to say.  Joe seemed hesitant about playing 3/8s of this year's rotation in last years playoffs.  I think he was wrong then, and probably wrong now, but I don't foresee a whole lot changing. 

[SparzWizard]

Joe doesn't trust Tillman yet.  I think it's a mistake not to play him, but Joe usually sticks with who he knows.

That's the conclusion I came to in the game thread as well. He obviously doesn't trust X or Q to do what we the fans think they should be capable of doing. He trusts Luke but not those guys, at least not when the game is still in question. He's had a number of opportunities to play them so there's something he and his staff are seeing that we are not. Maybe it's  a lack of chemistry with the other players, or they have to think about where they need to be in the defensive scheme as opposed to just being there, or Al is one of the leaders when it comes to calling where people should be, or they want someone who the Cavs can't cheat off defending on the perimeter, or any number of things.

Or Joe could just be an idiot, and since this is the Fire Joe thread, that's also more than likely 

Joe is an idiot? Fire Joe thread? You got it!

Mind-boggling. He almost ran Pritchard out of town last year by not giving him minutes. See what happens when you give players minutes? They gotta flourish and show their worth! Letting them rot on bench and refusing to play them, ugh.

[Kernewek]

I woke up this morning convinced we lost because this thread had been bumped.

Why are we messing with tradition like this?

[ozgod]

I woke up this morning convinced we lost because this thread had been bumped.

Why are we messing with tradition like this?

Well, Joe has committed another fireable offense - he apparently doesn't like the ball zipping around too many players, according to Adam Himmelsbach, the Globe beat reporter for the Cs.

⋅ Fans often love when there is a possession with constant ball movement and one pass after another. But Mazzulla is less of a fan of these sequences, because players usually end up turning down a decent shot. And he believes that the extra passes essentially create more chances for something to go awry. Late in the second quarter, Boston probably made one pass too many before Tatum fired the ball down low to Brown, who was standing out of bounds.


https://www.bostonglobe.com/2024/05/13/sports/celtics-cavaliers-game-4-playoffs/

Cashiered out tomorrow?

[Roy H.]

I woke up this morning convinced we lost because this thread had been bumped.

Why are we messing with tradition like this?

Well, Joe has committed another fireable offense - he apparently doesn't like the ball zipping around too many players, according to Adam Himmelsbach, the Globe beat reporter for the Cs.

⋅ Fans often love when there is a possession with constant ball movement and one pass after another. But Mazzulla is less of a fan of these sequences, because players usually end up turning down a decent shot. And he believes that the extra passes essentially create more chances for something to go awry. Late in the second quarter, Boston probably made one pass too many before Tatum fired the ball down low to Brown, who was standing out of bounds.


https://www.bostonglobe.com/2024/05/13/sports/celtics-cavaliers-game-4-playoffs/

Cashiered out tomorrow?

The anti Norman Dale.

[Moranis]

Teams absolutely can be too unselfish.  I thought that was a bigger problem last year when Smart ended up taking so many shots while the better shooters passed them up.  This year it isn't as much an issue since the starters are all much more efficient offensive players, but there are times where Tatum, in particular, should shoot more.

[Redz]

Is Doc available?

[mobilija]

Is Doc available?

Yeah, if we’re gonna fire a coach, we better have another lined up that we want to fire.

[BitterJim]

Teams absolutely can be too unselfish.  I thought that was a bigger problem last year when Smart ended up taking so many shots while the better shooters passed them up.  This year it isn't as much an issue since the starters are all much more efficient offensive players, but there are times where Tatum, in particular, should shoot more.

We've had a few possessions this series where we made an "extra pass" with the shot clock winding down and that resulted in  an out-of-rhythm shot as time expired. That's obviously the most extreme example, but sometimes we need to just take the good/decent shot when we have it

[gift]

Is Doc available?

Yeah, if we’re gonna fire a coach, we better have another lined up that we want to fire.

i don't know who you have in mind, but his substitution patterns are the single thing holding the team back.

[mobilija]

Is Doc available?

Yeah, if we’re gonna fire a coach, we better have another lined up that we want to fire.

i don't know who you have in mind, but his substitution patterns are the single thing holding the team back.

It’s a joke….Everyone wants to fire Doc and he often gets fired. Celtics fans are continually blaming the coach for all failures and want him fired. Therefore Doc would be a good hire because we can universally get behind a “Fire Doc” thread, again.

[jpotter33]

https://twitter.com/LegionHoops/status/1790417931433902244

REPORT: JJ Redick, James Borrego and Sam Cassell have “emerged” as the top head coaching targets for the Lakers.

(via @ShamsCharania, @jovanbuha)

All the work we did to surround our head coach with top assistant coaching talent may be undone after a single season. Really hope we don’t lose both Lee and Cassell this summer.

[Redz]

Is Doc available?

Yeah, if we’re gonna fire a coach, we better have another lined up that we want to fire.

i don't know who you have in mind, but his substitution patterns are the single thing holding the team back.

It’s a joke….Everyone wants to fire Doc and he often gets fired. Celtics fans are continually blaming the coach for all failures and want him fired. Therefore Doc would be a good hire because we can universally get behind a “Fire Doc” thread, again.

You know, I actually debated putting in the lagh emoji, but figured I'd leave em guessing. 

[BudweiserCeltic]

https://twitter.com/LegionHoops/status/1790417931433902244

REPORT: JJ Redick, James Borrego and Sam Cassell have “emerged” as the top head coaching targets for the Lakers.

(via @ShamsCharania, @jovanbuha)

All the work we did to surround our head coach with top assistant coaching talent may be undone after a single season. Really hope we don’t lose both Lee and Cassell this summer.

If I were JJ Redick, I'd run away from that opportunity and wait. I think in general people are quite high on him, he should wait for a better opportunity that doesn't involve LeBron. Though he and LeBron are friends, so who knows...