Author Topic: Fire Joe! ... or critique Joe ... or defend Joe... or worry about Joe's coaching  (Read 824772 times)

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Re: Fire Joe!
« Reply #825 on: May 23, 2023, 07:39:36 AM »

Offline Who

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Being mentally ready to compete in the playoffs in the Conference Finals is not the job of the coach. That is the players job. The players should not need any motivational speech to be able to get up for a game like that.

Okay, on a wintery night in January playing on the road against one of the worst teams in the league, sure, the players may need a few words to get their heads in line.

But the Conference Finals? Heck no!

That is the player's responsibility to be mentally ready to compete. They weren't ready. They were lackadaisical and got their butts kicked because they did not take care of their own professional responsibility to show up and forth the required levels of effort and focus.

The coach sucks but he is not to blame for what happened in Game 3.

Re: Fire Joe!
« Reply #826 on: May 23, 2023, 09:16:52 AM »

Offline radiohead

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https://youtu.be/HCPCBKLknV0

After watching this interview, I don’t even know what to expect in game 4.

Re: Fire Joe!
« Reply #827 on: May 23, 2023, 09:36:40 AM »

Offline Celtics2021

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https://youtu.be/HCPCBKLknV0

After watching this interview, I don’t even know what to expect in game 4.

I didn’t find anything remarkable in the interview, positively or negatively.

Re: Fire Joe!
« Reply #828 on: May 23, 2023, 10:07:41 AM »

Offline Atzar

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Being mentally ready to compete in the playoffs in the Conference Finals is not the job of the coach. That is the players job. The players should not need any motivational speech to be able to get up for a game like that.

Okay, on a wintery night in January playing on the road against one of the worst teams in the league, sure, the players may need a few words to get their heads in line.

But the Conference Finals? Heck no!

That is the player's responsibility to be mentally ready to compete. They weren't ready. They were lackadaisical and got their butts kicked because they did not take care of their own professional responsibility to show up and forth the required levels of effort and focus.

The coach sucks but he is not to blame for what happened in Game 3.

As much as Joe has lost me, I do have to agree 100% with this.  They shouldn't need a pep talk to get up for a must-win game in the ECF.  If they don't want to play on this stage, that's entirely on them and the front office should have some serious conversations about whether they can expect these guys to do better in the future.  If the answer is 'no' for anybody, they need the boot. 

I thought we got out-schemed in G3, but we also didn't bring the required intensity and we quit early.  These players have just as much to answer for as Mazzulla does. 

Re: Fire Joe!
« Reply #829 on: May 23, 2023, 10:15:11 AM »

Offline scaryjerry

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the attacks on brogdon are interesting. his direct comments are accurate, and i’d challenge his detractors to explain how he’s incorrect.

secondly, criticizing brogdon’s performance in this series, implying or outright stating that he’s the reason we’re 0-3, is absurd. is brogdon responsible for JT’s fourth quarter disappearing acts in every game this series? what about JB’s horrendous play? same with al. all brogdon’s fault?

finally, it’s very telling that brogdon isn’t the first, or even the second celtic (or former celtic) to publicly state that there’s an issue in the C’s locker room.

but, sure, shoot the messenger.

He’s part of the problem, not the problem.

His massive ego isn’t good in that locker room and his game isn’t worth 23 mil a year. Sorry.


Some fans want to completely give him a pass and I can’t figure out why? Locker room chemistry got worse with him here, he’s massively overpaid for what he brings. Scored 0 points the other night and then comes out and gives a bunch of excuses and the fans praise him for it? Bizarre to me.

you seriously blaming this on Brogdon? hes been good all year, 6th man of the year and has been a solid #3 to the J's. Most people outside of this board would agree. We lost in part last year because of our lack of a 3'rd scorer behind the J's and he has provided that.

its not his fault that the coach doesn't preach defense or have any offensive set? he was brought in to be a ball handler since Brown isn't really good at that. If anything I think he should be starting over smart...

why is Mazzulla untouchable to so many posters? I dont get it...
First off mazzula has been dreadful and it wouldn’t hurt my feelings at all if they fired him today,
 
Secondly
I’m not blaming Brogdon I’m just lumping him in as part of the problem while the majority of the posters are giving him a complete pass and acting like he’s been good this series or significantly better than Derrick white or even Marcus smart. He put up a whopping 0 points in game 3 and gets paid 23 million dollars a year…then comes out and calls out our defense when he hasn’t been able to defend a chair this series. Unacceptable.

Re: Fire Joe!
« Reply #830 on: May 23, 2023, 10:26:05 AM »

Offline Atzar

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you seriously blaming this on Brogdon? hes been good all year, 6th man of the year and has been a solid #3 to the J's. Most people outside of this board would agree. We lost in part last year because of our lack of a 3'rd scorer behind the J's and he has provided that.

its not his fault that the coach doesn't preach defense or have any offensive set? he was brought in to be a ball handler since Brown isn't really good at that. If anything I think he should be starting over smart...

why is Mazzulla untouchable to so many posters? I dont get it...
First off mazzula has been dreadful and it wouldn’t hurt my feelings at all if they fired him today,
 
Secondly
I’m not blaming Brogdon I’m just lumping him in as part of the problem while the majority of the posters are giving him a complete pass and acting like he’s been good this series or significantly better than Derrick white or even Marcus smart. He put up a whopping 0 points in game 3 and gets paid 23 million dollars a year…then comes out and calls out our defense when he hasn’t been able to defend a chair this series. Unacceptable.

Agree with this. 

He's an average-to-below defender and he has some of the same tunnel-vision tendencies that Brown does.  If he's missing shots like he was in G3, he's usually not contributing much.  I give him credit for a very good season but this team has crapped the bed here in the ECF and Brogdon is in the middle of the mess right along with everybody else. 


Re: Fire Joe!
« Reply #831 on: May 23, 2023, 10:49:40 AM »

Online jpotter33

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the attacks on brogdon are interesting. his direct comments are accurate, and i’d challenge his detractors to explain how he’s incorrect.

secondly, criticizing brogdon’s performance in this series, implying or outright stating that he’s the reason we’re 0-3, is absurd. is brogdon responsible for JT’s fourth quarter disappearing acts in every game this series? what about JB’s horrendous play? same with al. all brogdon’s fault?

finally, it’s very telling that brogdon isn’t the first, or even the second celtic (or former celtic) to publicly state that there’s an issue in the C’s locker room.

but, sure, shoot the messenger.

He’s part of the problem, not the problem.

His massive ego isn’t good in that locker room and his game isn’t worth 23 mil a year. Sorry.


Some fans want to completely give him a pass and I can’t figure out why? Locker room chemistry got worse with him here, he’s massively overpaid for what he brings. Scored 0 points the other night and then comes out and gives a bunch of excuses and the fans praise him for it? Bizarre to me.

Yes, clearly Brogdon was the thing that changed so much from last year and why our chemistry is seemingly bad now.

Has nothing to do with a complete change of philosophy and identity and the loss of a lovable and respected coach for a green coach who has been questioned all year long.

Dang you, Brogdon.
Recovering Joe Skeptic, but inching towards a relapse.

Re: Fire Joe!
« Reply #832 on: May 23, 2023, 10:55:30 AM »

Online jpotter33

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Being mentally ready to compete in the playoffs in the Conference Finals is not the job of the coach. That is the players job. The players should not need any motivational speech to be able to get up for a game like that.

Okay, on a wintery night in January playing on the road against one of the worst teams in the league, sure, the players may need a few words to get their heads in line.

But the Conference Finals? Heck no!

That is the player's responsibility to be mentally ready to compete. They weren't ready. They were lackadaisical and got their butts kicked because they did not take care of their own professional responsibility to show up and forth the required levels of effort and focus.

The coach sucks but he is not to blame for what happened in Game 3.

I disagree. Especially given the 0-2 context, you have to prepare the guys for the high energy and intensity start, as well as the inevitable late to run.

But more importantly, them being ready and able to accept the challenge is predicated on having a good gameplan coming in, which Joe has consistently failed at. Beyond the obvious offensive struggles that Joe has seemingly conceded is only going to go as far as we make high rates of threes (with little necessary ball of player movement), he’s consistently failed from a defensive gameplan all playoffs long, whether it’s the PnR coverage, switching, doubles, etc.

By virtue of you implementing a crappy ganeplan, you aren’t doing your job of having your guys ready and putting them in positions to succeed.
Recovering Joe Skeptic, but inching towards a relapse.

Re: Fire Joe!
« Reply #833 on: May 23, 2023, 11:47:51 AM »

Offline scaryjerry

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the attacks on brogdon are interesting. his direct comments are accurate, and i’d challenge his detractors to explain how he’s incorrect.

secondly, criticizing brogdon’s performance in this series, implying or outright stating that he’s the reason we’re 0-3, is absurd. is brogdon responsible for JT’s fourth quarter disappearing acts in every game this series? what about JB’s horrendous play? same with al. all brogdon’s fault?

finally, it’s very telling that brogdon isn’t the first, or even the second celtic (or former celtic) to publicly state that there’s an issue in the C’s locker room.

but, sure, shoot the messenger.

He’s part of the problem, not the problem.

His massive ego isn’t good in that locker room and his game isn’t worth 23 mil a year. Sorry.


Some fans want to completely give him a pass and I can’t figure out why? Locker room chemistry got worse with him here, he’s massively overpaid for what he brings. Scored 0 points the other night and then comes out and gives a bunch of excuses and the fans praise him for it? Bizarre to me.

Yes, clearly Brogdon was the thing that changed so much from last year and why our chemistry is seemingly bad now.

Has nothing to do with a complete change of philosophy and identity and the loss of a lovable and respected coach for a green coach who has been questioned all year long.

Dang you, Brogdon.


It’s all joes fault! Give Brogdon a raise! True professional in that game 3! Just phenomenal! Joe clearly made him quit!

Re: Fire Joe!
« Reply #834 on: May 23, 2023, 11:59:06 AM »

Offline Mahk E Mahk

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the attacks on brogdon are interesting. his direct comments are accurate, and i’d challenge his detractors to explain how he’s incorrect.

secondly, criticizing brogdon’s performance in this series, implying or outright stating that he’s the reason we’re 0-3, is absurd. is brogdon responsible for JT’s fourth quarter disappearing acts in every game this series? what about JB’s horrendous play? same with al. all brogdon’s fault?

finally, it’s very telling that brogdon isn’t the first, or even the second celtic (or former celtic) to publicly state that there’s an issue in the C’s locker room.

but, sure, shoot the messenger.

He’s part of the problem, not the problem.

His massive ego isn’t good in that locker room and his game isn’t worth 23 mil a year. Sorry.


Some fans want to completely give him a pass and I can’t figure out why? Locker room chemistry got worse with him here, he’s massively overpaid for what he brings. Scored 0 points the other night and then comes out and gives a bunch of excuses and the fans praise him for it? Bizarre to me.

i don’t think anyone is giving him a pass, but he’s not in the top five reasons this team is underperforming or 0-3 vs. the heat.

i’d appreciate some proof that demonstrates brogdon has a massive ego or is a locker room problem. i don’t see any evidence of these allegations at all. furthermore, his salary is irrelevant to this conversation.

lastly, you haven’t addressed the question: what did brogdon say that’s incorrect?

Re: Fire Joe!
« Reply #835 on: May 23, 2023, 12:17:44 PM »

Offline SparzWizard

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All I can say about Brogdon is he's won 6th man of the year and has definitely contributed to help won us games and got the record we're at. W/o him the C's are probably at 4th or 5th seed and getting ousted in the first/second round

The rest is up to the Jays and the coach to keep improving, but unfortunately, we're stuck.


#FireJoe
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I am the Master of Panic.

Re: Fire Joe!
« Reply #836 on: May 23, 2023, 12:19:12 PM »

Offline ozgod

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David Aldridge in the Athletic provides a contrarian, and unpopular, viewpoint - that maybe the Cs should run it all back without changes next season. He invokes Spoelstra's loss to the Mavs in 2011, the first year of the Big Three, as well as the Nuggets not firing Malone and trading Murray after 2020 in the bubble, as reasons why.

I can't post all of the article for site rules reasons but I have posted the gist of his argument.

Quote
The Celtics could blowtorch their roster and bench — or choose a harder path: staying the course

Is it like this in Hollywood? Or on Broadway?

When “Mortal Engines” flamed out at the movie box office in 2018, did the industry’s rag sheets and podcasts demand Peter Jackson never get another screenplay writing job? Was there a groundswell among The Great White Way patrons to trade Beverly D’Angelo to another flop after her appearance in the play “Rockabye Hamlet” in 1976 – which lasted all of seven performances?

Or is that phenomenon unique to sports?

Today, it’s the Boston Celtics’ turn under the microscope, after their paws-up performance in Game 3 of the Eastern Conference finals Sunday in Miami.

The Title-18 aspirations, the dream of a Cs-Lakers NBA Finals to break the championship tie between the two proud franchises….pfffft. And it has left Celtics coach Joe Mazzulla — quirky and lovable while Boston rolled through the regular season, hailed all of eight days ago for relying on love to inspire his charges in his first season as head coach, replacing Ime Udoka — to someone crushed for getting worked by Erik Spoelstra. The blame runs from the Celtics’ staff, to its star players Jayson Tatum and Jaylen Brown, to president of basketball operations Brad Stevens, and anyone else affiliated with the green and white.

Eight days ago, Tatum was a Game 7 hero. Now, he’s a Game 3 zero.

Quote
Let’s be clear: when fans and morning and afternoon drive local sports radio hosts bleat on and on about “adjustments” that coaches aren’t making, and should make, and would make if they weren’t incompetent, drooling fools, all they’re saying is ‘make my team win.’ People who can’t change a tire without calling AAA or find their favorite show streaming on Netflix without their teenagers in the room are, somehow, now experts on how to stop Jimmy Butler and Nikola Jokić. That’s life in the big — and, often, wholly unknowledgeable — city.

But it doesn’t mean the pressure to win at this level, on this stage, from fans and pundits, isn’t soul-crushingly real. It is. It warps reality.

Quote
Boston has made the conference finals five times, including this season, in the last seven years. The Celtics made the finals last year, and were two games away from a title, before Stephen Curry and the Golden State Warriors woke up and put them to sleep. Tatum responded with a first-team All-NBA campaign this year; Brown was second-team. They have figured out how to play championship-level basketball together. Boston was second in the league in offensive and defensive rating this season. It’s not like this thing is broken.

And yet the notion of Boston going forward with Tatum and Brown, and giving each of them what seemed, a month ago, to be shoo-in extensions this summer, no matter the seemingly prohibitive cost, is now viewed more cautiously with the Celtics on the verge of getting swept by Miami. Both have been neutered for long stretches by the Heat, unable to put their fingerprints on this series while Butler clowns them. Mazzulla’s reluctance to pair Robert Williams III and Al Horford together for long stretches, as Udoka did last season, has been excoriated.

Quote
That the Nuggets are Exhibit A in not panicking after playoff disappointments, in not blowing up a promising roster, in not trading, say, Jamal Murray after his injuries of recent seasons, is lost on you when it’s your team losing in May and June. That the Heat stuck with Spoelstra after a crushing 2011 finals loss to the Dallas Mavericks, when the SuperFriends had been together just a year and the pressure on the then-fourth-year coach was at its greatest, is lost to history.

Miami had Pat Riley — Pat Riley — sitting in the bullpen, ready to step in and replace Spoelstra. Yet Riley, the team’s president, then and now, stuck by his young coach after the Mavericks’ 4-2 finals win, in which Dallas’ Rick Carlisle clearly made better in-game decisions than his Miami counterpart.

“No, I’m not going to do that,” Riley said at the time, about his own potential return to the bench. “It doesn’t mean that I don’t have the fire, but no, we’ve got a great young coach here and I want to support him and hope that he can grow like I did. … We’re going to bring Erik back. From that standpoint, that’s how I feel about it.”

The Heat then won back-to-back NBA titles, with Spoelstra unlocking the potential of LeBron James, Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh with positionless, read and react-sprinting basketball, going small, surrounding the big three with shooters. Miami, though, hasn’t won another title since 2013.

But the Heat, and Riley, have continued to empower Spoelstra, year after year, allowing him to figure things out, whether or not those decisions end up in championships. Most organizations, these days, would never display that kind of loyalty. Is it because of social media? A new generation of ownership, many from the world of hedge funds and multi-billion dollar deals, who see the world more in bottom lines and fungible employees than in sticking with good people through tough times? All of the above?

Quote
The Celtics will have a choice when this series ends — and it will, most certainly, end with the Heat winning and moving on to the finals. Boston could fire Mazzulla and replace him with any of the above-mentioned coaches currently seeking employment again, or Mike D’Antoni, or a top young assistant from a winning program — a Kenny Atkinson from Golden State, or a Jay Larranaga or Brian Shaw, each with long Celtics ties, from the LA Clippers. It could look to trade Brown, or Marcus Smart, or Derrick White, and bring in another two-way player with Brown’s skill set to pair alongside Tatum.

Or, Boston could swallow hard, take its lumps this summer, give Brown his well-earned extension and run it back again next season, with few changes. Is Mazzulla better than any of those more proven coaches? No. He was an emergency replacement for Udoka, whose off-court decisions left him suspended — and, ultimately, an ex-employee. Mazzulla is 34. He struggled against Philly before Tatum rescued everyone in Game 7. He’s not going to be a finished product by the fall.

But the Celtics nonetheless could still extend grace, give Mazzulla the latitude to improve at his craft, to find his voice as the main man. They could demand he better utilize his two Williamses, Robert and Grant, and see if he’ll sink or swim. (This would include hiring one or two assistant coaches with some gray in their beards this summer to help him navigate the myriad decisions head coaches have to make, every day.) You could always fire Mazzulla in 12 months — or, seven or eight — if there haven’t been signs of tangible growth. There will always be a heavy-hitter available to replace him. It’s the Celtics. Everyone wants the job.

That would not go over well on WEEI 93.7 FM. It would not be what Gang Green wants to hear in the taverns, or on the street — or, for that matter, in the comments section below. It would be, to be sure, the harder path to sell and justify.

We could argue this some more while we watch Michael Malone, in his eighth season behind the bench in Denver, and Spoelstra, in his 15th with Miami, slug it out in the finals.

https://theathletic.com/4541919/2023/05/23/celtics-future-mazzulla-brown/

Thoughts? He did say his viewpoint wouldn't go over well with Cs fans :angel:

I think the biggest questions are a) does Mazzulla have the scope to improve; and b) can we afford to give him the time to improve, the way that Pat Riley gave Spoelstra the time to improve, possibly wasting years of LeBum, Wade and Bosh's primes. It was certainly a brave decision, and I remember it being heavily criticized at the time.
Any odd typos are because I suck at typing on an iPhone :D


Re: Fire Joe!
« Reply #837 on: May 23, 2023, 12:21:21 PM »

Offline scaryjerry

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the attacks on brogdon are interesting. his direct comments are accurate, and i’d challenge his detractors to explain how he’s incorrect.

secondly, criticizing brogdon’s performance in this series, implying or outright stating that he’s the reason we’re 0-3, is absurd. is brogdon responsible for JT’s fourth quarter disappearing acts in every game this series? what about JB’s horrendous play? same with al. all brogdon’s fault?

finally, it’s very telling that brogdon isn’t the first, or even the second celtic (or former celtic) to publicly state that there’s an issue in the C’s locker room.

but, sure, shoot the messenger.

He’s part of the problem, not the problem.

His massive ego isn’t good in that locker room and his game isn’t worth 23 mil a year. Sorry.


Some fans want to completely give him a pass and I can’t figure out why? Locker room chemistry got worse with him here, he’s massively overpaid for what he brings. Scored 0 points the other night and then comes out and gives a bunch of excuses and the fans praise him for it? Bizarre to me.

i don’t think anyone is giving him a pass, but he’s not in the top five reasons this team is underperforming or 0-3 vs. the heat.

i’d appreciate some proof that demonstrates brogdon has a massive ego or is a locker room problem. i don’t see any evidence of these allegations at all. furthermore, his salary is irrelevant to this conversation.

lastly, you haven’t addressed the question: what did brogdon say that’s incorrect?

Nothing he said was incorrect, Just weird coming from a guy who wasn’t on last years team and saved his worst game of the year for the biggest game of the year, just seemed to put the blame elsewhere when he could’ve just talked about how HE has to be better.

To be fair he did drop a lot of ego at the door accepting the 6th man role, kinda easy to do when you’re paid more then guys starting over you if you ask me though. All you have to do is listen to the guy talk to know he loves himself some him and I’ve felt throughout the year there’s a division in the lockerroom and he’s been a part of it.

Re: Fire Joe!
« Reply #838 on: May 23, 2023, 12:24:43 PM »

Offline scaryjerry

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All I can say about Brogdon is he's won 6th man of the year and has definitely contributed to help won us games and got the record we're at. W/o him the C's are probably at 4th or 5th seed and getting ousted in the first/second round

The rest is up to the Jays and the coach to keep improving, but unfortunately, we're stuck.

Derrick white was our 3rd best player all year. Malcolm Brogdon had a perfectly fine season, we would be in the same exact spot with or without him.

Re: Fire Joe!
« Reply #839 on: May 23, 2023, 02:06:18 PM »

Offline Celtics2021

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David Aldridge in the Athletic provides a contrarian, and unpopular, viewpoint - that maybe the Cs should run it all back without changes next season. He invokes Spoelstra's loss to the Mavs in 2011, the first year of the Big Three, as well as the Nuggets not firing Malone and trading Murray after 2020 in the bubble, as reasons why.

I can't post all of the article for site rules reasons but I have posted the gist of his argument.

Quote
The Celtics could blowtorch their roster and bench — or choose a harder path: staying the course

Is it like this in Hollywood? Or on Broadway?

When “Mortal Engines” flamed out at the movie box office in 2018, did the industry’s rag sheets and podcasts demand Peter Jackson never get another screenplay writing job? Was there a groundswell among The Great White Way patrons to trade Beverly D’Angelo to another flop after her appearance in the play “Rockabye Hamlet” in 1976 – which lasted all of seven performances?

Or is that phenomenon unique to sports?

Today, it’s the Boston Celtics’ turn under the microscope, after their paws-up performance in Game 3 of the Eastern Conference finals Sunday in Miami.

The Title-18 aspirations, the dream of a Cs-Lakers NBA Finals to break the championship tie between the two proud franchises….pfffft. And it has left Celtics coach Joe Mazzulla — quirky and lovable while Boston rolled through the regular season, hailed all of eight days ago for relying on love to inspire his charges in his first season as head coach, replacing Ime Udoka — to someone crushed for getting worked by Erik Spoelstra. The blame runs from the Celtics’ staff, to its star players Jayson Tatum and Jaylen Brown, to president of basketball operations Brad Stevens, and anyone else affiliated with the green and white.

Eight days ago, Tatum was a Game 7 hero. Now, he’s a Game 3 zero.

Quote
Let’s be clear: when fans and morning and afternoon drive local sports radio hosts bleat on and on about “adjustments” that coaches aren’t making, and should make, and would make if they weren’t incompetent, drooling fools, all they’re saying is ‘make my team win.’ People who can’t change a tire without calling AAA or find their favorite show streaming on Netflix without their teenagers in the room are, somehow, now experts on how to stop Jimmy Butler and Nikola Jokić. That’s life in the big — and, often, wholly unknowledgeable — city.

But it doesn’t mean the pressure to win at this level, on this stage, from fans and pundits, isn’t soul-crushingly real. It is. It warps reality.

Quote
Boston has made the conference finals five times, including this season, in the last seven years. The Celtics made the finals last year, and were two games away from a title, before Stephen Curry and the Golden State Warriors woke up and put them to sleep. Tatum responded with a first-team All-NBA campaign this year; Brown was second-team. They have figured out how to play championship-level basketball together. Boston was second in the league in offensive and defensive rating this season. It’s not like this thing is broken.

And yet the notion of Boston going forward with Tatum and Brown, and giving each of them what seemed, a month ago, to be shoo-in extensions this summer, no matter the seemingly prohibitive cost, is now viewed more cautiously with the Celtics on the verge of getting swept by Miami. Both have been neutered for long stretches by the Heat, unable to put their fingerprints on this series while Butler clowns them. Mazzulla’s reluctance to pair Robert Williams III and Al Horford together for long stretches, as Udoka did last season, has been excoriated.

Quote
That the Nuggets are Exhibit A in not panicking after playoff disappointments, in not blowing up a promising roster, in not trading, say, Jamal Murray after his injuries of recent seasons, is lost on you when it’s your team losing in May and June. That the Heat stuck with Spoelstra after a crushing 2011 finals loss to the Dallas Mavericks, when the SuperFriends had been together just a year and the pressure on the then-fourth-year coach was at its greatest, is lost to history.

Miami had Pat Riley — Pat Riley — sitting in the bullpen, ready to step in and replace Spoelstra. Yet Riley, the team’s president, then and now, stuck by his young coach after the Mavericks’ 4-2 finals win, in which Dallas’ Rick Carlisle clearly made better in-game decisions than his Miami counterpart.

“No, I’m not going to do that,” Riley said at the time, about his own potential return to the bench. “It doesn’t mean that I don’t have the fire, but no, we’ve got a great young coach here and I want to support him and hope that he can grow like I did. … We’re going to bring Erik back. From that standpoint, that’s how I feel about it.”

The Heat then won back-to-back NBA titles, with Spoelstra unlocking the potential of LeBron James, Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh with positionless, read and react-sprinting basketball, going small, surrounding the big three with shooters. Miami, though, hasn’t won another title since 2013.

But the Heat, and Riley, have continued to empower Spoelstra, year after year, allowing him to figure things out, whether or not those decisions end up in championships. Most organizations, these days, would never display that kind of loyalty. Is it because of social media? A new generation of ownership, many from the world of hedge funds and multi-billion dollar deals, who see the world more in bottom lines and fungible employees than in sticking with good people through tough times? All of the above?

Quote
The Celtics will have a choice when this series ends — and it will, most certainly, end with the Heat winning and moving on to the finals. Boston could fire Mazzulla and replace him with any of the above-mentioned coaches currently seeking employment again, or Mike D’Antoni, or a top young assistant from a winning program — a Kenny Atkinson from Golden State, or a Jay Larranaga or Brian Shaw, each with long Celtics ties, from the LA Clippers. It could look to trade Brown, or Marcus Smart, or Derrick White, and bring in another two-way player with Brown’s skill set to pair alongside Tatum.

Or, Boston could swallow hard, take its lumps this summer, give Brown his well-earned extension and run it back again next season, with few changes. Is Mazzulla better than any of those more proven coaches? No. He was an emergency replacement for Udoka, whose off-court decisions left him suspended — and, ultimately, an ex-employee. Mazzulla is 34. He struggled against Philly before Tatum rescued everyone in Game 7. He’s not going to be a finished product by the fall.

But the Celtics nonetheless could still extend grace, give Mazzulla the latitude to improve at his craft, to find his voice as the main man. They could demand he better utilize his two Williamses, Robert and Grant, and see if he’ll sink or swim. (This would include hiring one or two assistant coaches with some gray in their beards this summer to help him navigate the myriad decisions head coaches have to make, every day.) You could always fire Mazzulla in 12 months — or, seven or eight — if there haven’t been signs of tangible growth. There will always be a heavy-hitter available to replace him. It’s the Celtics. Everyone wants the job.

That would not go over well on WEEI 93.7 FM. It would not be what Gang Green wants to hear in the taverns, or on the street — or, for that matter, in the comments section below. It would be, to be sure, the harder path to sell and justify.

We could argue this some more while we watch Michael Malone, in his eighth season behind the bench in Denver, and Spoelstra, in his 15th with Miami, slug it out in the finals.

https://theathletic.com/4541919/2023/05/23/celtics-future-mazzulla-brown/

Thoughts? He did say his viewpoint wouldn't go over well with Cs fans :angel:

I think the biggest questions are a) does Mazzulla have the scope to improve; and b) can we afford to give him the time to improve, the way that Pat Riley gave Spoelstra the time to improve, possibly wasting years of LeBum, Wade and Bosh's primes. It was certainly a brave decision, and I remember it being heavily criticized at the time.

I am closer to this opinion than I am of blowing it up, with the exception being if there is some unreported Jayson + Jaylen rift, or J's +rest of the team rift.

I do think it will be harder for Mazzulla than Spoelstra, because Spo had already been the head coach prior to LeBron coming in, so a) had more experience, and b) more organizational gravity having not been an emergency hire.  I personally think Mazz will be a head coach for many years in the NBA, but I think his career may be better served digesting this experience before getting his next opportunity in 4-8 years, as opposed to trying to fix the situation with that much more at stake next season.