Fire Joe! ... or critique Joe ... or defend Joe... or worry about Joe's coaching

[Who]

Brogdon getting credit for the comments he made is laughable to me
This pompous clown got paid 23 million dollars a year to come in and be a veteran leader on this team and in the locker room. Scored 0 points last night and then took 0 accountability after the game and in my opinion is part of the division in the locker room.
He’s getting praise for this?

LOL

Same. He's in no position to criticize others on this team.

Agreed. Not only the lousy offense last night but the terrible defense. He has been the biggest liability in our perimeter defense. Frequently getting beaten at the point of attack. Unable to stop dribble penetration.

His lack of effort at times especially last night was awful.

[gouki88]

Brogdon getting credit for the comments he made is laughable to me
This pompous clown got paid 23 million dollars a year to come in and be a veteran leader on this team and in the locker room. Scored 0 points last night and then took 0 accountability after the game and in my opinion is part of the division in the locker room.
He’s getting praise for this?

LOL

Same. He's in no position to criticize others on this team.

Agreed. Not only the lousy offense last night but the terrible defense. He has been the biggest liability in our perimeter defense. Frequently getting beaten at the point of attack. Unable to stop dribble penetration.

His lack of effort at times especially last night was awful.

Makes me wonder if he is part of the (perhaps real, perhaps not) coalition of players trying to force Mazzulla out. Because he was great against Philly

[green_bballers13]

Brogdon is right. They don't have a defensive identity. Did he call out specific players? I didn't see that.

What's wrong with the truth?

[BudweiserCeltic]

https://twitter.com/byjayking/status/1660699223476584450?s=46&t=lGU0TGXtwjkuVuoin6WTNw

Malcolm Brogdon said the Heat have an identity. Brogdon said the Celtics haven’t found theirs. He thinks it should be defense.

More subtle shots at Joe.

https://twitter.com/realbobmanning/status/1660716095932694528?s=46&t=lGU0TGXtwjkuVuoin6WTNw

Malcolm Brogdon gave an illuminating press conference today. Admits #Celtics got away with bad habits earlier in playoffs, relied on making shots all year and never reached the defensive consistency they needed to this year.

Publicly, Mazzulla & the team denied these issues.

EDIT: And some not so subtle shots at Joe, Brad, and this team as a whole. Ouch, Chad.

https://www.boston.com/sports/boston-celtics/2023/05/22/joe-mazzulla-nba-playoffs-heat-chad-finn-column/

Unfortunately, this is not a movie, and this Celtics season, a once-promising mission to avenge last season’s Finals loss, is one inevitable loss from a miserable ending.

One of the many reasons why the Celtics are down 3-0 to the Heat: Their players, as shown through their recent words and pathetic actions, clearly do not believe their coach gives them a fighting chance.

It’s no excuse for why they turned into an entire roster of 2018 Kyrie Irvings and stopped fighting altogether in Game 3 of the Eastern Conference finals with the Miami Heat Sunday night.

But they are right. The quitters are right.

Mazzulla is the Peter McNeeley to Erik Spoelstra’s Mike Tyson. He doesn’t belong in this ring. He’s not ready for prime time. And in hindsight, he never should have been asked to be. The Celtics tried to develop a coach with a roster built to win now, and it backfired. No matter what other changes come in the offseason, they cannot allow themselves to be overmatched on the bench again.

So many mistakes have been made — by Mazzulla, by Brad Stevens, and by the players who were trusted to have a collective maturity that still remains absent.

Mazzulla’s tactical struggles — from burying Grant Williams to not going with double bigs until late in the previous series with the Sixers to the inability to take advantage of his roster depth (Sam Hauser made more than twice as many threes this year as Duncan Robinson) — are well-documented. It is telling that his players have had no qualms about publicly acknowledging his mistakes along the way.

It really does appear sometimes that Al Horford and Marcus Smart are more involved in running the huddle than Mazzulla is. That’s fine when it’s meant to give players some ownership. But it’s a bad look when they look like they’re doing the actual strategizing.

As for Stevens, he did a remarkable job building this roster, but he compounded his mistakes in deciding who would oversee it after Udoka’s suspension and eventual departure.

Why did Mazzulla get the job over Damon Stoudamire, whose status as an ex-player is something Jaylen Brown, to name one Celtic, previously acknowledged desiring in a coach? Why was a veteran assistant not added to the staff to aid a coach who had never led his own team at a level higher than NCAA Division 2? Did Stevens believe Mazzulla would be blunter with his players than he has been? They faced consequences for lackadaisical play under Udoka. There have been no consequences this season, which is one reason why the defensive effort has waned.

Meh, I think this speaks more about the players lack of introspection and accountability for how they play than anything else. Hard to fault a coach during the season who had the team as the 3rd or 4th best defense in the league, and top 3 offense in the league. Furthermore, Brogdon even suggested Mazzulla was the architect of last year's defense (according to what he's heard in the locker room)... so this all seems a bit two-faced.

Players looking at a scapegoat and don't want the fingers pointed at themselves... not that Joe doesn't deserve the criticism he's had during the Playoffs... because something has been really off from the get go.

[scaryjerry]

Brogdon is right. They don't have a defensive identity. Did he call out specific players? I didn't see that.

What's wrong with the truth?

Brogdon  is a part of the problem. He was suppose to be the piece that put us over top and he’s done nothing this postseason but add to the division in the locker room in my opinion. most Celtics fans are completely letting the guy off the hook when he’s the second highest paid player on the team this year.
Give me a break.

[Who]

Brogdon is right. They don't have a defensive identity. Did he call out specific players? I didn't see that.

What's wrong with the truth?

Brogdon  is a part of the problem. He was suppose to be the piece that put us over top and he’s done nothing this postseason but add to the division in the locker room in my opinion. most Celtics fans are completely letting the guy off the hook when he’s the second highest paid player on the team this year.
Give me a break.

Yeah, I came away from this series looking at Brogdon as part of problem rather than part of the solution moving forward.

He has had some nice moments and good games but I don't ... struggling to find the words. I don't think he fitted in well enough.

(1) I don't think he worked well playing next to both Jays. He was more a competitor for touches & shots than a complementary piece. I usually felt more comfortable with D White or Smart out there instead of him when both Jays were on the floor.

(2) When playing alongside one Jay, as a 2nd option, Brogdon did okay but not enough. He needed to do more to guide the team but those moments where he did were too few and far between. He needed to take more of a leadership role on offense. Instead he was just one of the guys. He is more talented than anyone except for the Jays. He needed to stamp his authority on games.

(3) When he was on the court without either Jay, I liked him the most. He played freer and showed his best game.


Overall, I am not sure he is a keeper. He has some talent but I am not sold he fits in.

[Mahk E Mahk]

the attacks on brogdon are interesting. his direct comments are accurate, and i’d challenge his detractors to explain how he’s incorrect.

secondly, criticizing brogdon’s performance in this series, implying or outright stating that he’s the reason we’re 0-3, is absurd. is brogdon responsible for JT’s fourth quarter disappearing acts in every game this series? what about JB’s horrendous play? same with al. all brogdon’s fault?

finally, it’s very telling that brogdon isn’t the first, or even the second celtic (or former celtic) to publicly state that there’s an issue in the C’s locker room.

but, sure, shoot the messenger.

[CelticSooner]

The one good thing the players have seemed to express throughout the season is they liked having a defensive identity. The current guy doesn’t preach that so how about management go out and get a more experienced coach that does? If they are bought in on that it will stem a lot of problems this team had this year.

[jpotter33]

Yeah, I don’t get the criticism of Brogdon. He’s played poorly this series, and overall he’s less of the playmaker that we thought he was. But overall he’s been a great addition and was 6MOY for a reason.

But everything he’s saying seems consistent with what other players  have said and what we’ve seen. They’ve clearly deemphasized the defense this year in favor of focusing on the offense, and it’s not led to success, especially in the playoffs. And despite how talented they are, they haven’t been held accountable, and it shows.

[Phantom255x]

Malone was a bit arrogant during this WCF series but not in a snobby way or in a way where he bashed anyone (reporters, etc). And guess what, the team buys into him and his attitude and they swept the “mighty” Lakers and dominated them. Despite all the media narratives too, they proved them all wrong

These remaining coaches in the playoffs are miles ahead of Mazzulla. I’d argue Ham is better already too. His team didn’t quit either.

[Goldstar88]

Brogdon is right. They don't have a defensive identity. Did he call out specific players? I didn't see that.

What's wrong with the truth?

Brogdon  is a part of the problem. He was suppose to be the piece that put us over top and he’s done nothing this postseason but add to the division in the locker room in my opinion. most Celtics fans are completely letting the guy off the hook when he’s the second highest paid player on the team this year.
Give me a break.

He’s actually the 4th highest paid if that makes any difference…

[Indocelts]

I love Brogdon for what he has brought to the team, and to speak out about what the Cs are lacking right  now. This is what we see also, so why deny it or attack him?

Granted, he may have been playing poorly the last 2 game, but with the disfunctional team like this how could you play well consistently? Joe simply doesnt prepare the team to win.

I have some reservations though regarding some players who have been here for a long time, since they seem to eventually  tune out the coaches.

Firing Joe seems imminent, but one or two players need to go as well.

[Stig]

Brogdon isn’t the problem, the Js are, they define the ceiling of this team, if there’s leadership needed, it should have come from the Js. So far they have done a terrible job leading by example.

[Kernewek]

Meh, I think this speaks more about the players lack of introspection and accountability for how they play than anything else. Hard to fault a coach during the season who had the team as the 3rd or 4th best defense in the league, and top 3 offense in the league. Furthermore, Brogdon even suggested Mazzulla was the architect of last year's defense (according to what he's heard in the locker room)... so this all seems a bit two-faced.

Players looking at a scapegoat and don't want the fingers pointed at themselves... not that Joe doesn't deserve the criticism he's had during the Playoffs... because something has been really off from the get go.

Agree with this. And, again, this isn't new behaviour for this team, unless we want to blame Mazzulla for Jaylen & Smart's blowup in 2020? I suppose he was on the staff at that point...

[ozgod]

https://twitter.com/byjayking/status/1660699223476584450?s=46&t=lGU0TGXtwjkuVuoin6WTNw

Malcolm Brogdon said the Heat have an identity. Brogdon said the Celtics haven’t found theirs. He thinks it should be defense.

More subtle shots at Joe.

https://twitter.com/realbobmanning/status/1660716095932694528?s=46&t=lGU0TGXtwjkuVuoin6WTNw

Malcolm Brogdon gave an illuminating press conference today. Admits #Celtics got away with bad habits earlier in playoffs, relied on making shots all year and never reached the defensive consistency they needed to this year.

Publicly, Mazzulla & the team denied these issues.

EDIT: And some not so subtle shots at Joe, Brad, and this team as a whole. Ouch, Chad.

https://www.boston.com/sports/boston-celtics/2023/05/22/joe-mazzulla-nba-playoffs-heat-chad-finn-column/

Unfortunately, this is not a movie, and this Celtics season, a once-promising mission to avenge last season’s Finals loss, is one inevitable loss from a miserable ending.

One of the many reasons why the Celtics are down 3-0 to the Heat: Their players, as shown through their recent words and pathetic actions, clearly do not believe their coach gives them a fighting chance.

It’s no excuse for why they turned into an entire roster of 2018 Kyrie Irvings and stopped fighting altogether in Game 3 of the Eastern Conference finals with the Miami Heat Sunday night.

But they are right. The quitters are right.

Mazzulla is the Peter McNeeley to Erik Spoelstra’s Mike Tyson. He doesn’t belong in this ring. He’s not ready for prime time. And in hindsight, he never should have been asked to be. The Celtics tried to develop a coach with a roster built to win now, and it backfired. No matter what other changes come in the offseason, they cannot allow themselves to be overmatched on the bench again.

So many mistakes have been made — by Mazzulla, by Brad Stevens, and by the players who were trusted to have a collective maturity that still remains absent.

Mazzulla’s tactical struggles — from burying Grant Williams to not going with double bigs until late in the previous series with the Sixers to the inability to take advantage of his roster depth (Sam Hauser made more than twice as many threes this year as Duncan Robinson) — are well-documented. It is telling that his players have had no qualms about publicly acknowledging his mistakes along the way.

It really does appear sometimes that Al Horford and Marcus Smart are more involved in running the huddle than Mazzulla is. That’s fine when it’s meant to give players some ownership. But it’s a bad look when they look like they’re doing the actual strategizing.

As for Stevens, he did a remarkable job building this roster, but he compounded his mistakes in deciding who would oversee it after Udoka’s suspension and eventual departure.

Why did Mazzulla get the job over Damon Stoudamire, whose status as an ex-player is something Jaylen Brown, to name one Celtic, previously acknowledged desiring in a coach? Why was a veteran assistant not added to the staff to aid a coach who had never led his own team at a level higher than NCAA Division 2? Did Stevens believe Mazzulla would be blunter with his players than he has been? They faced consequences for lackadaisical play under Udoka. There have been no consequences this season, which is one reason why the defensive effort has waned.

Meh, I think this speaks more about the players lack of introspection and accountability for how they play than anything else. Hard to fault a coach during the season who had the team as the 3rd or 4th best defense in the league, and top 3 offense in the league. Furthermore, Brogdon even suggested Mazzulla was the architect of last year's defense (according to what he's heard in the locker room)... so this all seems a bit two-faced.

Players looking at a scapegoat and don't want the fingers pointed at themselves... not that Joe doesn't deserve the criticism he's had during the Playoffs... because something has been really off from the get go.

Charles and Shaq were getting stuck into the players in the TNT postgame.

Barkley, who predicted that the Celtics were going to win Game 3 ahead of tip off, blasted Boston during halftime for their lack of effort. The Celtics trailed Miami, 61-46, at the break.

“I’m embarrassed for the Celtics,” Barkley said during TNT’s halftime report. “That display of basketball — no mental toughness. Complaining on every single call. They made the refs mad because they complain on every single call.

“The lack of mental toughness is embarrassing. I’ve been fortunate and blessed to play against the Lakers and the Celtics, the two best organizations in NBA history. That was an embarrassment for the Celtics. Paul Pierce, Kevin Garnett, Larry Bird, M.L. Carr, Kevin McHale, the best player I played against. That was embarrassing as a Celtics fan.”

Even though Mazzulla assumed most of the blame during his postgame presser, both Barkley and O’Neal stressed that the players on Boston’s roster need to also be held accountable.

“First of all, Coach, quit saying ‘me.’ Let’s say ‘we — We were not ready to play.’ I know he’s trying to do the right thing, take a bullet for the team,” Barkley said of Mazzulla. “But he can’t be saying ‘me.’ … That was embarrassing for the Boston Celtics, one of the greatest franchises in sports history. But he took all the bullets. … He can’t take all the blame for what these Celtics are doing.”

“I respect Joe Mazzulla for taking all the blame. But I don’t want to hear that,” O’Neal added. “As a superstar, I cannot go 6-for-17. Chuck, as my other superstar, he can’t go 6-for-18. Let’s just keep it real — The Celtics are way too cool for me. They’re too cool. … Jimmy [Butler] and them, they come out, they’re playing good, clean basketball. … Celtics came out with no sense of urgency. The Heat knew what they had to do. And they’re committed to doing it. They’ve been doing it all year.”

Despite the 0-3 hole that the Celtics find themselves in, Heat guard Gabe Vincent added on TNT that Boston has too much talent to roll over in Game 4.

“They’ve got stars. They’re not going to quit,” Vincent said.

“Clearly you didn’t watch the game tonight,” Barkley responded.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2023/05/22/sports/charles-barkley-magic-johnson-other-former-nba-greats-blast-celtics-following-embarrassing-game-3-loss-heat/?p1=HP_Feed_Recommended

I do admit that moaning constantly about bad calls is a terrible look. It's fine to moan about referees as a fan because we're not playing. They're playing. Just like we in real life have to face adversity that we can't do anything about, they should be able to get over refereeing calls and just factor them into their calculus to win. Once someone starts moaning about refereeing like Jaylen was on the ground screaming at the ref throwing his hands up after a missed layup, the guy he was guarding, Strus, ran back in transition and had an open 3 that he made because Jaylen took forever to get up and was still arguing with the ref. And this was in the second quarter when the game was starting to get away from us. Focus on what you can do to win the game.