Author Topic: Fire Joe! ... or critique Joe ... or defend Joe... or worry about Joe's coaching  (Read 723192 times)

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Re: Fire Joe!
« Reply #435 on: May 12, 2023, 01:34:36 AM »

Offline jpotter33

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I don't think Robert Williams was coming off the bench purely because of match up or "demotion" aspects. I think it was a combination of shortening rotation (less bigs playing in playoffs) and Williams still battling knee issues coming into the playoffs.

In order for the Horford/Timelord combo to work, they need to play big minutes. Horford played 39 minutes tonight, Timelord 28... both above normal for them. Which is all good and dandy as long as they hold up physically and stay out of foul trouble... which is a concern.

I did see Robert having some issues getting down the floor in both ends at times, so that's something we need to be careful about. But I think the main aspect on why the rotation has been as it is, is mainly due to the lack of 3 men big rotation at the moment.

I don’t buy this. The only reason we don’t have a three big man rotation is because Joe has frozen GWill out of the lineup mysteriously. GWill was a key, important cog for us last year, but Joe has just went a different direction.

And it’s directly because he likes playing smaller with more shooting out there, which we’re able to do more now with Brogdon. So that means less two big lineups, and Timelord is more valuable than GWill, limiting his minutes.

I’m sure the injuries and time management also factor in, but it’s clearly Joe’s offense/three-centric and deprioritized defensive philosophy that is the main reason behind this. Just listen to his game analyses - it’s never a problem with the D and always about not getting the right types of shots.
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Re: Fire Joe!
« Reply #436 on: May 12, 2023, 01:46:05 AM »

Offline bdm860

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I don't think Robert Williams was coming off the bench purely because of match up or "demotion" aspects. I think it was a combination of shortening rotation (less bigs playing in playoffs) and Williams still battling knee issues coming into the playoffs.

I also wonder if it was a way to try to keep him healthy throughout the playoffs.  Let's face it, he makes Kawhi Leonard look like an iron man by comparison at times.  How many threads/posts are there where people are complaining that he's not reliable after one of his many injuries?

So I wonder if moving him to the bench/reducing his minutes was a way to try to keep him healthy for the whole playoffs?  Maybe that was a contributing factor.

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Re: Fire Joe!
« Reply #437 on: May 12, 2023, 02:12:26 AM »

Offline radiohead

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Do you guys think that Joe will stick with the double big starting line up for game 7?

Re: Fire Joe!
« Reply #438 on: May 12, 2023, 02:23:21 AM »

Offline gouki88

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Do you guys think that Joe will stick with the double big starting line up for game 7?
He is a lunatic if he doesn’t
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Re: Fire Joe!
« Reply #439 on: May 12, 2023, 02:31:43 AM »

Offline ozgod

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I think it’s simple why Joe has been going small. White spaces the floor better than Timelord, that’s why he’s started most of the season. Joe is an offensive minded coach and spacing is one of his guiding principles. White was playing really well too. But he seems to have tailed off, and with Timelord he strengthens our interior D a lot more than White does, given how much the Sixers rely on Embiid and Maxey attacking the rim.

End of day I worry less about starting lineups generally and more about how many minutes each player is playing and who closes, but with Philly having Timelord starting helps wall off Embiid and Maxey from the rim a little sooner.
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Re: Fire Joe!
« Reply #440 on: May 12, 2023, 02:51:53 AM »

Offline SparzWizard

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Joe really has nothing to lose (or everything to lose) if he has to start both Horford and Timelord. Use what worked in Game 6. Timelord still with hidden injuries? Still play him until he can't play. This is Game 7 man. It's actually both Joe and Brad's problem for not investing in bigs.


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Re: Fire Joe!
« Reply #441 on: May 12, 2023, 05:29:46 AM »

Offline Kernewek

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I don't think Robert Williams was coming off the bench purely because of match up or "demotion" aspects. I think it was a combination of shortening rotation (less bigs playing in playoffs) and Williams still battling knee issues coming into the playoffs.

I also wonder if it was a way to try to keep him healthy throughout the playoffs.  Let's face it, he makes Kawhi Leonard look like an iron man by comparison at times.  How many threads/posts are there where people are complaining that he's not reliable after one of his many injuries?

So I wonder if moving him to the bench/reducing his minutes was a way to try to keep him healthy for the whole playoffs?  Maybe that was a contributing factor.

Almost certainly, especially after we started the series with two wins. If we make it to the finals with a healthy Timelord last year we're arguably the favourite to win the series.

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Re: Fire Joe!
« Reply #442 on: May 12, 2023, 06:12:31 AM »

Offline cman88

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Do you guys think that Joe will stick with the double big starting line up for game 7?

I mean considering that is what propelled our win he kind of has to right? It was a noticeable difference from the start on defense. Sixers couldnt score in the paint and left it on PJ tucker to beat us...

that was the difference so far.

Re: Fire Joe!
« Reply #443 on: May 12, 2023, 06:46:23 AM »

Offline Neurotic Guy

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Yes.

The surprise to me is zero Grant.  Also - why not a smattering of Blake G intensity? 

Re: Fire Joe!
« Reply #444 on: May 12, 2023, 06:54:22 AM »

Offline cman88

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Yes.

The surprise to me is zero Grant.  Also - why not a smattering of Blake G intensity?

Blake is not good anymore. the one game he played in this series i'm pretty sure sixers got back in it.

Grant on the other hand, i'm not sure why he didnt play. Although embiid seemed to eat him alive with his size.

Re: Fire Joe!
« Reply #445 on: May 12, 2023, 10:46:46 AM »

Offline Boston Garden Leprechaun

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I continue to believe Celtics win in spite of Joe, not because of him.

we are winning nothing because of joe all in spite of him. he is an empty suit on the sideline.

we will only go as far as the players want to go.

joe needs to be fired as soon as our season is over regardless.
LET'S GO CELTICS!

Re: Fire Joe!
« Reply #446 on: May 12, 2023, 11:03:49 AM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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I continue to believe Celtics win in spite of Joe, not because of him.

we are winning nothing because of joe all in spite of him. he is an empty suit on the sideline.

we will only go as far as the players want to go.

joe needs to be fired as soon as our season is over regardless.

Yeah,  he is a weak link in the clog as head coach .  I liked his role as an assistant.  We need a vocal coach who will fight on the sidelines for the team , help keep the intensity level up the whole game.  A lot of the,players need individual  attention  to refocus during the game ,  to keep their heads up , positive team ball movement …..keep their eye on the prize …win this game. Joe is TOO much like Brad , but without the X and O ‘s skill level. Ime was a stronger leader..

Re: Fire Joe!
« Reply #447 on: May 12, 2023, 11:41:13 AM »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

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I don't think Robert Williams was coming off the bench purely because of match up or "demotion" aspects. I think it was a combination of shortening rotation (less bigs playing in playoffs) and Williams still battling knee issues coming into the playoffs.

In order for the Horford/Timelord combo to work, they need to play big minutes. Horford played 39 minutes tonight, Timelord 28... both above normal for them. Which is all good and dandy as long as they hold up physically and stay out of foul trouble... which is a concern.

I did see Robert having some issues getting down the floor in both ends at times, so that's something we need to be careful about. But I think the main aspect on why the rotation has been as it is, is mainly due to the lack of 3 men big rotation at the moment.

I don’t buy this. The only reason we don’t have a three big man rotation is because Joe has frozen GWill out of the lineup mysteriously. GWill was a key, important cog for us last year, but Joe has just went a different direction.

And it’s directly because he likes playing smaller with more shooting out there, which we’re able to do more now with Brogdon. So that means less two big lineups, and Timelord is more valuable than GWill, limiting his minutes.

I’m sure the injuries and time management also factor in, but it’s clearly Joe’s offense/three-centric and deprioritized defensive philosophy that is the main reason behind this. Just listen to his game analyses - it’s never a problem with the D and always about not getting the right types of shots.

Doesn't matter WHY Grant is not playing, but it's a fact that we're not playing him... so it will affect rotation decisions. So there's nothing to "buy" in that regard. That's the point I'm making. By your admission though, that he likes to play smaller for better offense than playing big, then Grant would be playing more if that was the case, but it's not happening.

And yet he was starting Timelord before he got injured again, and you guys may have forgotten that he was scratched from games ending the season because he was battling knee soreness. Again, I'm not saying if this was wise or not, or good or not... I'm just saying that his decisions may not have been purely from a match-up stand-point, but partly because of shortening rotation and health concerns.

Even so, our small line ups with White in the starting line up have been good as well, so... I won't gripe about it too much.

As for game analyses, I think you guys are taking things out of context (even at times putting words in his mouth of things that he hasn't said) or not listening to all of it because he talks about defense plenty. But it is true that he puts an emphasis on offense, and for a good reason... our stagnant offense and turnovers often lead to disasters.

Add to that, we are actually playing accomplished defensive players here. It's not like we're putting players in there that can't play a lick of defense but can give us good offense. And going back to Grant... all season we've been hearing on this site how much he sucks, and now he's supposed to be the savior for all that ills us? Please. Even so, he should be getting some playing time in my opinion.

Regardless, even though superstars sometimes do what they do no matter what you throw at them, our defense on the Sixers has been effective for the most part. We've held them under 90 points twice in this series so far... something the Sixers failed to reach 2 times as well all season. We are holding a 49% shooting team to 44%, and holding a 115 point per game team to 104 points per game.

Their stars are performing below their norm including the current NBA MVP. And I wish we'd do better defensively, because I know we can, but this offense vs defense discussion is quite overblown as far as I'm concerned.

Since we like to play the "what if" game as far as this series being over... maybe this series is over if Brogdon doesn't turnover the ball to end the game carelessly, maybe this series is over if Brown doesn't leave Harden wide open from the corner, and yes... maybe it's over if Joe had used his [dang] time outs.

And since we love comparing to last year's team, the big success we had during the playoffs defensively were against the Bucks without Middleton (Giannis was spectacular though, but we did a great job on him) and Miami with an injured Butler and Lowry. Even when we swept the Nets, in part because of the job Tatum did on Durant, our defensive performance wasn't up to par. Same can be said vs Golden State. Now, versus Atlanta our defense was terrible, that much is true, but against Philadelphia it's been overblown. Just to put things into a bit of perspective.

Also, we need someone to wipe off the butter hands we have in our team... no one can catch the [dang] ball cleanly when good passes are made, so frustrating. Timelord and Brown in particular suffer from this. But that's a discussion for another thread.

Re: Fire Joe!
« Reply #448 on: May 12, 2023, 11:52:57 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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Quote
And since we love comparing to last year's team, the big success we had during the playoffs defensively were against the Bucks without Middleton (Giannis was spectacular though, but we did a great job on him) and Miami with an injured Butler and Lowry. Even when we swept the Nets, in part because of the job Tatum did on Durant, our defensive performance wasn't up to par. Same can be said vs Golden State. Now, versus Atlanta our defense was terrible, that much is true, but against Philadelphia it's been overblown. Just to put things into a bit of perspective.

I think that your perspective may be a bit off.

Last year we had a hobbled Timelord (or no Timelord at all).  Yet, we gave up 115+ points once, in 22 playoff games.

This year, we have given up 115+ points in seven out of 12 playoff games.

We're giving up 6.3 more points per 100 possessions than last year.


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Re: Fire Joe!
« Reply #449 on: May 12, 2023, 12:03:23 PM »

Offline jpotter33

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Quote
And since we love comparing to last year's team, the big success we had during the playoffs defensively were against the Bucks without Middleton (Giannis was spectacular though, but we did a great job on him) and Miami with an injured Butler and Lowry. Even when we swept the Nets, in part because of the job Tatum did on Durant, our defensive performance wasn't up to par. Same can be said vs Golden State. Now, versus Atlanta our defense was terrible, that much is true, but against Philadelphia it's been overblown. Just to put things into a bit of perspective.

I think that your perspective may be a bit off.

Last year we had a hobbled Timelord (or no Timelord at all).  Yet, we gave up 115+ points once, in 22 playoff games.

This year, we have given up 115+ points in seven out of 12 playoff games.

Yeah, was just getting ready to highlight this as untrue, as well.

Last year we were 2nd overall in defensive rating in the playoffs at 106.3. This year we are 10th (!) in defensive rating at 122.1. Those defensive numbers were also against better offensive rating teams with Brooklyn (2nd - 115.0), GSW (4th - 114.5), Heat (8th - 110.7), and Milwaukee (15th - 103.4) relatively compared to this year’s competition in Atlanta (6th - 114.3) and Philly (8th - 11.6).

So not only are we objectively significantly worse defensively, we’re also significantly worse relative to the rest of the league’s defense. Our defense has been absolutely trash this year, and this is largely due to Joe’s gameplan and philosophy.
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