Fire Joe! ... or critique Joe ... or defend Joe... or worry about Joe's coaching

[Kuberski33]

Interesting article on ESPN site by Windhorst that gives an accurate analysis comparing Ime's team and Joe's team.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/37593391/last-year-how-celtics-save-their-season

Emphasis on defense vs emphasis on offense.
Player rotations that support the difference in team playing styles.
Ime played more of Rob & Horford & Grant due to their defensive prowess.
Joe is sitting Grant and Rob more and playing the shooters (when they are making shots that is).
Joe's doomed philosophy of shooting more 3's than your opponent vs Ime's dependence on a more reliable factor - defense.
The Celtics decline from the #2 defensive team in the playoffs last year to #10 this year.

Another failure of Brad's in all this was replacing a defensive-minded coach with an offensive-minded coach. He is probably more aligned with Joe in his basketball philosophy, given his own love of small-ball and 3-point shooting. His offensive acquisition of Brogdon (which bolstered the offense) and his failure to add a strong defender/rebounder in the post says a lot about Brad's thinking. No reason we should not have filled both those needs. We are currently committed to living by the 3-point shot and it ain't working.

I’ll also say that I think a lot of Rob’s and Grant’s lackluster years have been directly due to how Joe plays them. He do deprioritizes the defense that their role is very limited, and it’s really killed our depth. I won’t be surprised to see GWill walk for nothing this year given how awful Joe has been with using him.

Which is a little talked about part of the degree to which Joe has messed up this franchise.  PP is likely gone too. They are getting pushed around on a fairly regular basis and Grant is the one guy who will give it back to the Tucker's of the world.

Joe has become the story of the season, which is unfortunate.

[Indocelts]

The simplest thing to improve our situation is just to discard the 3 pt offense system whose main weapon is iso 3s by Tatum and Brown, or Smart.

That is the stupidest offensive concept that has been exposed since the ASG, and in the playoff, because some ofour better shooters actually rarely play lately (Hauser, GW).  And to make it worse, Tatum's accuracy has been declining since the ASG. Our 3pt shoots are now taken by the worse 3pt shooters in team (Tatum, Brown, Smart).

We need Tatum and Brown to take more 2pt shoots. Jaylen is almost automatic from the elbow area, Tatum's turnaround baseline jumper is unguardable. This should be the bread and butter of the offense.The only 3s that Brown and Tatum can take are the spot up shots out of guard penetration.

Majority of our players are excellent shooting the spot up 3s, and we have guards who can drive and dish. This is a lethal combination as well.

It pains me to see Joe creating a scheme that plays to our weakness. This has to stop, and if it means firing Joe, just be it,

[angryguy77]

The simplest thing to improve our situation is just to discard the 3 pt offense system whose main weapon is iso 3s by Tatum and Brown, or Smart.

That is the stupidest offensive concept that has been exposed since the ASG, and in the playoff, because some ofour better shooters actually rarely play lately (Hauser, GW).  And to make it worse, Tatum's accuracy has been declining since the ASG. Our 3pt shoots are now taken by the worse 3pt shooters in team (Tatum, Brown, Smart).

We need Tatum and Brown to take more 2pt shoots. Jaylen is almost automatic from the elbow area, Tatum's turnaround baseline jumper is unguardable. This should be the bread and butter of the offense.The only 3s that Brown and Tatum can take are the spot up shots out of guard penetration.

Majority of our players are excellent shooting the spot up 3s, and we have guards who can drive and dish. This is a lethal combination as well.

It pains me to see Joe creating a scheme that plays to our weakness. This has to stop, and if it means firing Joe, just be it,

IDK what you mean....passing up easy 2's for 3's from an ice cold shooter is supported by analytics. Just give it 3 qtrs and they'll start dropping when we're down 15 to 20 pts.

[gouki88]

If they bring Joe and the same cast back next season, nothing will change.

I highly doubt they make no changes / additions to the coaching staff

An experienced ex head coach as our assistant still isn’t going to change a thing. Joe comes off as always wanting to be right and have things done his way even if the ship sinks with him as we’re seeing so far. His system is all offense he’s clearly not preaching defense and guys just aren’t playing hard for him. He lacks adjustments it’s just been a disaster.

It literally did change things given we have gotten worse since losing our most experienced assistant.

[celticsclay]

If they bring Joe and the same cast back next season, nothing will change.

I highly doubt they make no changes / additions to the coaching staff

An experienced ex head coach as our assistant still isn’t going to change a thing. Joe comes off as always wanting to be right and have things done his way even if the ship sinks with him as we’re seeing so far. His system is all offense he’s clearly not preaching defense and guys just aren’t playing hard for him. He lacks adjustments it’s just been a disaster.

It literally did change things given we have gotten worse since losing our most experienced assistant.

I agree I feel we have gotten worse since losing stoudamire to say nothing of losing our top assistant before the season started to coach the jazz.

[Kuberski33]

If they bring Joe and the same cast back next season, nothing will change.

I highly doubt they make no changes / additions to the coaching staff

An experienced ex head coach as our assistant still isn’t going to change a thing. Joe comes off as always wanting to be right and have things done his way even if the ship sinks with him as we’re seeing so far. His system is all offense he’s clearly not preaching defense and guys just aren’t playing hard for him. He lacks adjustments it’s just been a disaster.

It literally did change things given we have gotten worse since losing our most experienced assistant.

Maybe Brad and ownership should have seen this coming and not allowed Stoudemire to leave till the season was over?

[GetLucky]

If they bring Joe and the same cast back next season, nothing will change.

I highly doubt they make no changes / additions to the coaching staff

An experienced ex head coach as our assistant still isn’t going to change a thing. Joe comes off as always wanting to be right and have things done his way even if the ship sinks with him as we’re seeing so far. His system is all offense he’s clearly not preaching defense and guys just aren’t playing hard for him. He lacks adjustments it’s just been a disaster.

It literally did change things given we have gotten worse since losing our most experienced assistant.

Maybe Brad and ownership should have seen this coming and not allowed Stoudemire to leave till the season was over?

I think Stoudemire was being petty on purpose. He's one of Ime's best friends. He definitely knew he was setting the team up to fail and did it anyway.

[SCeltic34]

Different day, same result.  Every single shortcoming Joe has shown in the regular season is showing itself in the playoffs.  The guy is just clueless and he's consistently failed to get the most out of this incredibly talented roster.

[Goldstar88]

Different day, same result.  Every single shortcoming Joe has shown in the regular season is showing itself in the playoffs.  The guy is just clueless and he's consistently failed to get the most out of this incredibly talented roster.

Looks like he talked them into playing defense tonight. So that’s good, right?

[Who]

Different day, same result.  Every single shortcoming Joe has shown in the regular season is showing itself in the playoffs.  The guy is just clueless and he's consistently failed to get the most out of this incredibly talented roster.

Looks like he talked them into playing defense tonight. So that’s good, right?

The lineup change is worthy of some praise. That shook up the team in a positive way.

[Phantom255x]

Contract extension for Mazz now 

[Roy H.]

Different day, same result.  Every single shortcoming Joe has shown in the regular season is showing itself in the playoffs.  The guy is just clueless and he's consistently failed to get the most out of this incredibly talented roster.

Looks like he talked them into playing defense tonight. So that’s good, right?

The lineup change is worthy of some praise. That shook up the team in a positive way.

How much credit do we give him for doing something he should have been doing all along?  It only took him 12 games, I guess.

[Who]

Different day, same result.  Every single shortcoming Joe has shown in the regular season is showing itself in the playoffs.  The guy is just clueless and he's consistently failed to get the most out of this incredibly talented roster.

Looks like he talked them into playing defense tonight. So that’s good, right?

The lineup change is worthy of some praise. That shook up the team in a positive way.

How much credit do we give him for doing something he should have been doing all along?  It only took him 12 games, I guess.

I don't know that it is something Mazzula should have been doing all along. I've seen that mentioned a few times.

We started the season great without Timelord. He came back, we worked him back into the team, brought him back into the starting lineup and the team struggled. And struggled some more.

I know I was happy when they went back to the two guard lineup that was working so well earlier in the season. That the team just wasn't functioning as well with Timelord in the starting lineup.

[jpotter33]

Different day, same result.  Every single shortcoming Joe has shown in the regular season is showing itself in the playoffs.  The guy is just clueless and he's consistently failed to get the most out of this incredibly talented roster.

Looks like he talked them into playing defense tonight. So that’s good, right?

The lineup change is worthy of some praise. That shook up the team in a positive way.

How much credit do we give him for doing something he should have been doing all along?  It only took him 12 games, I guess.

Yeah, he should get credit for finally making the obvious lineup adjustment with our defense this series, but it also just does show how bad he's been with these lineups. He's so hyper-focused on the offense and three point shooting that he's completely neglected the other side of the ball, which Philly has exploited all series long.

[SCeltic34]

Different day, same result.  Every single shortcoming Joe has shown in the regular season is showing itself in the playoffs.  The guy is just clueless and he's consistently failed to get the most out of this incredibly talented roster.

Looks like he talked them into playing defense tonight. So that’s good, right?

The lineup change is worthy of some praise. That shook up the team in a positive way.

How much credit do we give him for doing something he should have been doing all along?  It only took him 12 games, I guess.

I mean, that's where I'm at.  Re-prioritize defense and rebounding.  We have enough scoring, especially since we added Brogdon to the mix.