Fire Joe! ... or critique Joe ... or defend Joe... or worry about Joe's coaching

[obnoxiousmime]

I thought this thread was being brought back as a joke.  I’m not a huge fan of Joe’s but I thought he did a really good job last night.  Had the great challenge that was a huge swing and timely doubling of Ant.  It pretty much came down to the team not shooting well.  They had a 2 for 1 to end regulation and it ended with a turnover by Al and a missed wide open 3 by Jaylen.  I’d prefer a closer shot, but he was wide open.  I don’t have a problem with not calling timeout if Joe feels he has the guys he wants on the court.  Also, for everyone clamoring that it should’ve been Tatum to take the last shot, there are plenty of scenarios in the past where that was the case and it lead to the same outcome.

The thing is, they want you to take a 3 in that instance. If you drive, you open up the possibility of a foul and even making one FT gives you the lead and forces the other team to have to make a shot. You're basically letting their defense off the hook by pulling up, and it's also the "safe" thing to do because you can't turn it over that way or have your shot blocked (usually). And if you miss, you can just say, "well, sometimes they go in, sometimes they don't" and escape criticism.

Yeah, threes usually aren't the smart play for a late shot if tied or down by 1.  The success rate is going to be around 35%, quite a bit less than a 2PT shot.

I agree that I wouldn’t want to see a 3 in that situation either, although trying to attack to draw a foul isn’t a great bet either as the refs will typically swallow their whistles unless it’s egregious.  Jaylen is a very good mid-ranger shooter.  He had the defender on his heels and could’ve easily just taken one more dribble to pull up from 12-15 feet rather than step back.

Again, though, if we go back and look at all the other times the Celtics have been in a similar situation over the last few years, it’s usually been a 3 pointer, tough fall-away or a turnover.  They’ve never been good (including Tatum) in this situation for whatever reason.  I’m not putting all that on Joe because it’s been an issue for years

That's not exactly what I meant. I said driving creates the possibility of a foul, which is an additional benefit that pulling up is unlikely to provide. Yes, the refs don't want to call a foul. However, if there's time left on the clock, maybe they do because they know the Wolves will at least get a chance to get a shot off.

But yes, I agree that generally speaking Brown shooting a 3 is a low percentage shot for him. I think Tatum and Brown resort to those shots late-game (when the score doesn't actually require a 3) because they don't feel confident driving against a good defender with length. We've seen them turn it over often without the defender even making contact with the ball.

[Kuberski33]

If anything, last night highlighted the importance of Derrick White. He simply takes this team to another level.

You can say that, but White's not getting the ball in OT when Tatum and Jaylen go hero ball. That's got to get fixed if this team is going to realistically have a chance to win the title. Porzingis is their 2nd best player - he needs to be involved when games are on the line.

I do think Joe has been better at managing the team. He's certainly using his bench more (though not always getting the desired results).  However that OT last night was a flashback to their problems last season - including the way he coached (or didn't coach) while the game was slipping away.

[Silas]

If anything, last night highlighted the importance of Derrick White. He simply takes this team to another level.

You can say that, but White's not getting the ball in OT when Tatum and Jaylen go hero ball. That's got to get fixed if this team is going to realistically have a chance to win the title. Porzingis is their 2nd best player - he needs to be involved when games are on the line.

I do think Joe has been better at managing the team. He's certainly using his bench more (though not always getting the desired results).  However that OT last night was a flashback to their problems last season - including the way he coached (or didn't coach) while the game was slipping away.

If White had played last night the game would not have gone to OT. 

[SHAQATTACK]

If anything, last night highlighted the importance of Derrick White. He simply takes this team to another level.

You can say that, but White's not getting the ball in OT when Tatum and Jaylen go hero ball. That's got to get fixed if this team is going to realistically have a chance to win the title. Porzingis is their 2nd best player - he needs to be involved when games are on the line.

I do think Joe has been better at managing the team. He's certainly using his bench more (though not always getting the desired results).  However that OT last night was a flashback to their problems last season - including the way he coached (or didn't coach) while the game was slipping away.

If White had played last night the game would not have gone to OT.

Yup…….there were too many strikes against Boston goin into this game .  The opportunity was there and the opponent capitalized. 

Our bench can’t hold ground against the better team .  When people don’’t show up , the guy on the bench have to do something besides draw a paycheck

[SparzWizard]

If anything, last night highlighted the importance of Derrick White. He simply takes this team to another level.

You can say that, but White's not getting the ball in OT when Tatum and Jaylen go hero ball. That's got to get fixed if this team is going to realistically have a chance to win the title. Porzingis is their 2nd best player - he needs to be involved when games are on the line.

I do think Joe has been better at managing the team. He's certainly using his bench more (though not always getting the desired results).  However that OT last night was a flashback to their problems last season - including the way he coached (or didn't coach) while the game was slipping away.

If White had played last night the game would not have gone to OT.

Yup…….there were too many strikes against Boston goin into this game .  The opportunity was there and the opponent capitalized. 

Our bench can’t hold ground against the better team .  When people don’’t show up , the guy on the bench have to do something besides draw a paycheck

I'll be concerned when this is the playoffs. Our starters will be worn out and opposing teams will cap on the C's bench. Brad needs to add some depth midseason.

[Kernewek]

If anything, last night highlighted the importance of Derrick White. He simply takes this team to another level.

You can say that, but White's not getting the ball in OT when Tatum and Jaylen go hero ball. That's got to get fixed if this team is going to realistically have a chance to win the title. Porzingis is their 2nd best player - he needs to be involved when games are on the line.

I do think Joe has been better at managing the team. He's certainly using his bench more (though not always getting the desired results).  However that OT last night was a flashback to their problems last season - including the way he coached (or didn't coach) while the game was slipping away.

If White had played last night the game would not have gone to OT.

Yup…….there were too many strikes against Boston goin into this game .  The opportunity was there and the opponent capitalized. 

Our bench can’t hold ground against the better team .  When people don’’t show up , the guy on the bench have to do something besides draw a paycheck

I'll be concerned when this is the playoffs. Our starters will be worn out and opposing teams will cap on the C's bench. Brad needs to add some depth midseason.

We all knew this coming in, though - we sacrificed our guard depth, specifically, to net a big upgrade (pun intended) in KP.

[BitterJim]

If anything, last night highlighted the importance of Derrick White. He simply takes this team to another level.

You can say that, but White's not getting the ball in OT when Tatum and Jaylen go hero ball. That's got to get fixed if this team is going to realistically have a chance to win the title. Porzingis is their 2nd best player - he needs to be involved when games are on the line.

I do think Joe has been better at managing the team. He's certainly using his bench more (though not always getting the desired results).  However that OT last night was a flashback to their problems last season - including the way he coached (or didn't coach) while the game was slipping away.

If White had played last night the game would not have gone to OT.

Yup…….there were too many strikes against Boston goin into this game .  The opportunity was there and the opponent capitalized. 

Our bench can’t hold ground against the better team .  When people don’’t show up , the guy on the bench have to do something besides draw a paycheck

I'll be concerned when this is the playoffs. Our starters will be worn out and opposing teams will cap on the C's bench. Brad needs to add some depth midseason.

We all knew this coming in, though - we sacrificed our guard depth, specifically, to net a big upgrade (pun intended) in KP.

The guard depth sacrifice I'm okay with, but not when we combined it with losing/not adding big man depth. When the Smart/KP trade happened I was excited to see some much larger lineups on the floor, but letting Grant go and trading Time Lord without replacing them makes that pretty impossible. With all the talk about "balancing the team" back in July, I was hoping for/expecting us to sacrifice guard depth for big depth, not lose both.

I honestly think we're close, too; one decent 3rd big would do the trick.and we have the means to get trade for one if ownership is willing to spend.

[Kernewek]

If anything, last night highlighted the importance of Derrick White. He simply takes this team to another level.

You can say that, but White's not getting the ball in OT when Tatum and Jaylen go hero ball. That's got to get fixed if this team is going to realistically have a chance to win the title. Porzingis is their 2nd best player - he needs to be involved when games are on the line.

I do think Joe has been better at managing the team. He's certainly using his bench more (though not always getting the desired results).  However that OT last night was a flashback to their problems last season - including the way he coached (or didn't coach) while the game was slipping away.

If White had played last night the game would not have gone to OT.

Yup…….there were too many strikes against Boston goin into this game .  The opportunity was there and the opponent capitalized. 

Our bench can’t hold ground against the better team .  When people don’’t show up , the guy on the bench have to do something besides draw a paycheck

I'll be concerned when this is the playoffs. Our starters will be worn out and opposing teams will cap on the C's bench. Brad needs to add some depth midseason.

We all knew this coming in, though - we sacrificed our guard depth, specifically, to net a big upgrade (pun intended) in KP.

The guard depth sacrifice I'm okay with, but not when we combined it with losing/not adding big man depth. When the Smart/KP trade happened I was excited to see some much larger lineups on the floor, but letting Grant go and trading Time Lord without replacing them makes that pretty impossible. With all the talk about "balancing the team" back in July, I was hoping for/expecting us to sacrifice guard depth for big depth, not lose both.

I honestly think we're close, too; one decent 3rd big would do the trick.and we have the means to get trade for one if ownership is willing to spend.

Agreed, but I think teams are not at all inclined to trade with the C's at the moment. We're much more likely, I think, to see whatever reserves we're going to get closer to the trade deadline/waiver-fest time than any time soon.

[SparzWizard]

2-game losing skid. Same old habits. Failure to change or adjust. I fear we'll be on a 4-game losing skid with Brooklyn and Toronto coming to town and b2b night.

Fire Joe.
Trade Brown.

[Goldstar88]

Why didn’t he call a timeout and tell the team to shoot better? 40% from the field, 32% from 3pt... Come on, Joe! What are we doing??? 

[angryguy77]

Why didn’t he call a timeout and tell the team to shoot better? 40% from the field, 32% from 3pt... Come on, Joe! What are we doing??? 

Or........develop an offense that doesn't live by the 3.

I get it though, Joe doesn't have enough talent to implement anything.  Maybe he needs another training camp and THEN we'll see his potential.

[jpotter33]

Why didn’t he call a timeout and tell the team to shoot better? 40% from the field, 32% from 3pt... Come on, Joe! What are we doing??? 

I mean, a competent coach wouldn't have to. He'd have secondary gameplans and a more diversified offense for when the threes aren't falling - instead of just putting all of our eggs in one basket just to shoot 52% of our shots from three at a scorching clip of 32%. 

[Roy H.]

Fire Pritchard!

[CelticSooner]

Why didn’t he call a timeout and tell the team to shoot better? 40% from the field, 32% from 3pt... Come on, Joe! What are we doing??? 

I mean, a competent coach wouldn't have to. He'd have secondary gameplans and a more diversified offense for when the threes aren't falling - instead of just putting all of our eggs in one basket just to shoot 52% of our shots from three at a scorching clip of 32%. 

He’d also not be afraid to call them out to get his message across.

[Kuberski33]

2-game losing skid. Same old habits. Failure to change or adjust. I fear we'll be on a 4-game losing skid with Brooklyn and Toronto coming to town and b2b night.

Fire Joe.
Trade Brown.

Jaylen proving again that his contract was a massive overpay. He's not a franchise player but he's getting paid like one.