Fire Joe! ... or critique Joe ... or defend Joe... or worry about Joe's coaching

[blink]

Our 100% record ruined!

81-1 here we come!!!

[jpotter33]

Give me Sam Cassell (or even Charles Lee)!

Anything is better than Timeout Gollum.

[SparzWizard]

I am happy that somebody bumped this thread.

The minutes are pretty concerning. Have rotation issues. Lose to the first good team the C's played. If they lose to the 76ers on Wed, I think this thread is still warranted.

[radiohead]

This thread is gonna be bumped after every loss and be buried during win streaks.

[ozgod]

Give me Sam Cassell (or even Charles Lee)!

Anything is better than Timeout Gollum.

This was brought up in the postgame press conference. Joe was asked why he didn't call a timeout in OT when the T-Wolves went up by 5 with 2 minutes to go. He was asked, was it because he wanted the team to “figure it out by themselves”? Joe said his reason (yes there was one) was that (I'm quoting him as best as I can) he "wanted to have 2 timeouts with 40 seconds to go take advantage of 2-for-1s to extend the game, advance the ball and stay out of need-3 situations. Says at 2 min to go and down 5 there’s no need to call a timeout, you run a set, you get points, there’s plenty of game left. He wanted to have those two in his pocket for the last 40 seconds.

On a more general note, JJ Redick talked to Joe about his timeout philosophy before the season. Here was his response:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YXgWFlrtzY

[Kernewek]

Escandalo.

[CelticsWhat35]

I thought this thread was being brought back as a joke.  I’m not a huge fan of Joe’s but I thought he did a really good job last night.  Had the great challenge that was a huge swing and timely doubling of Ant.  It pretty much came down to the team not shooting well.  They had a 2 for 1 to end regulation and it ended with a turnover by Al and a missed wide open 3 by Jaylen.  I’d prefer a closer shot, but he was wide open.  I don’t have a problem with not calling timeout if Joe feels he has the guys he wants on the court.  Also, for everyone clamoring that it should’ve been Tatum to take the last shot, there are plenty of scenarios in the past where that was the case and it lead to the same outcome. 

[celticinorlando]

Last night was a rewind to last season. From coaching on down to the play.

[jpotter33]

Give me Sam Cassell (or even Charles Lee)!

Anything is better than Timeout Gollum.

This was brought up in the postgame press conference. Joe was asked why he didn't call a timeout in OT when the T-Wolves went up by 5 with 2 minutes to go. He was asked, was it because he wanted the team to “figure it out by themselves”? Joe said his reason (yes there was one) was that (I'm quoting him as best as I can) he "wanted to have 2 timeouts with 40 seconds to go take advantage of 2-for-1s to extend the game, advance the ball and stay out of need-3 situations. Says at 2 min to go and down 5 there’s no need to call a timeout, you run a set, you get points, there’s plenty of game left. He wanted to have those two in his pocket for the last 40 seconds.

On a more general note, JJ Redick talked to Joe about his timeout philosophy before the season. Here was his response:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YXgWFlrtzY

Poor gamble then. You can’t utilize both timeouts if the lead is too big to matter, and that’s exactly what happened with us ending OT with a TO remaining.

It’s the same nonsense of Joe overthinking/having decision paralysis in these moments just like last year. Every other single coach would’ve called the timeout when witnessing the run there, because we were clearly reeling and not even getting good shots, just all iso forced shots. And it’s OT - it’s not like there’s an extended amount of time to work on getting the lead back.

Just poor judgment and inability to act.

[johnnygreen]

If anything, last night highlighted the importance of Derrick White. He simply takes this team to another level.

[obnoxiousmime]

I thought this thread was being brought back as a joke.  I’m not a huge fan of Joe’s but I thought he did a really good job last night.  Had the great challenge that was a huge swing and timely doubling of Ant.  It pretty much came down to the team not shooting well.  They had a 2 for 1 to end regulation and it ended with a turnover by Al and a missed wide open 3 by Jaylen.  I’d prefer a closer shot, but he was wide open.  I don’t have a problem with not calling timeout if Joe feels he has the guys he wants on the court.  Also, for everyone clamoring that it should’ve been Tatum to take the last shot, there are plenty of scenarios in the past where that was the case and it lead to the same outcome.

The thing is, they want you to take a 3 in that instance. If you drive, you open up the possibility of a foul and even making one FT gives you the lead and forces the other team to have to make a shot. You're basically letting their defense off the hook by pulling up, and it's also the "safe" thing to do because you can't turn it over that way or have your shot blocked (usually). And if you miss, you can just say, "well, sometimes they go in, sometimes they don't" and escape criticism.

[mobilija]

Joe was actually responsible for getting us even to OT. He literally erased two points from the Wolves with his challenge plus potentially 1 more w the freethrow that didn't happen. Oh, and the coaching defensive stop, calling for the Hack a Gobert. Joe gave the chance to play in OT which the players threw away w turnovers and poor shots.

[knuckleballer]

We need more player and ball movement.  Against bad teams and bad defenses, we can easily out talent the other team.  Against a good defense like last night, we resort to iso ball.  It’s probably not a big issue during the regular season, but it will be in the playoffs when opposing teams and coaches have more time to focus on game planning.

This is on Joe.  I hope he does a better job coaching.  If he doesn’t by mid season at the latest, I hope Stevens has the guts to replace him.

[Roy H.]

I thought this thread was being brought back as a joke.  I’m not a huge fan of Joe’s but I thought he did a really good job last night.  Had the great challenge that was a huge swing and timely doubling of Ant.  It pretty much came down to the team not shooting well.  They had a 2 for 1 to end regulation and it ended with a turnover by Al and a missed wide open 3 by Jaylen.  I’d prefer a closer shot, but he was wide open.  I don’t have a problem with not calling timeout if Joe feels he has the guys he wants on the court.  Also, for everyone clamoring that it should’ve been Tatum to take the last shot, there are plenty of scenarios in the past where that was the case and it lead to the same outcome.

The thing is, they want you to take a 3 in that instance. If you drive, you open up the possibility of a foul and even making one FT gives you the lead and forces the other team to have to make a shot. You're basically letting their defense off the hook by pulling up, and it's also the "safe" thing to do because you can't turn it over that way or have your shot blocked (usually). And if you miss, you can just say, "well, sometimes they go in, sometimes they don't" and escape criticism.

Yeah, threes usually aren't the smart play for a late shot if tied or down by 1.  The success rate is going to be around 35%, quite a bit less than a 2PT shot.

[CelticsWhat35]

I thought this thread was being brought back as a joke.  I’m not a huge fan of Joe’s but I thought he did a really good job last night.  Had the great challenge that was a huge swing and timely doubling of Ant.  It pretty much came down to the team not shooting well.  They had a 2 for 1 to end regulation and it ended with a turnover by Al and a missed wide open 3 by Jaylen.  I’d prefer a closer shot, but he was wide open.  I don’t have a problem with not calling timeout if Joe feels he has the guys he wants on the court.  Also, for everyone clamoring that it should’ve been Tatum to take the last shot, there are plenty of scenarios in the past where that was the case and it lead to the same outcome.

The thing is, they want you to take a 3 in that instance. If you drive, you open up the possibility of a foul and even making one FT gives you the lead and forces the other team to have to make a shot. You're basically letting their defense off the hook by pulling up, and it's also the "safe" thing to do because you can't turn it over that way or have your shot blocked (usually). And if you miss, you can just say, "well, sometimes they go in, sometimes they don't" and escape criticism.

Yeah, threes usually aren't the smart play for a late shot if tied or down by 1.  The success rate is going to be around 35%, quite a bit less than a 2PT shot.

I agree that I wouldn’t want to see a 3 in that situation either, although trying to attack to draw a foul isn’t a great bet either as the refs will typically swallow their whistles unless it’s egregious.  Jaylen is a very good mid-ranger shooter.  He had the defender on his heels and could’ve easily just taken one more dribble to pull up from 12-15 feet rather than step back.

Again, though, if we go back and look at all the other times the Celtics have been in a similar situation over the last few years, it’s usually been a 3 pointer, tough fall-away or a turnover.  They’ve never been good (including Tatum) in this situation for whatever reason.  I’m not putting all that on Joe because it’s been an issue for years