Author Topic: Let's talk about Joe...  (Read 7721 times)

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Re: Let's talk about Joe...
« Reply #15 on: March 06, 2023, 10:52:50 AM »

Offline jpotter33

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Nba is 96% players and 4% coach.  And most fans don’t even understand how to actually evaluate the coaching part, obsessing over timeouts and stuff like that. 

Joe is doing a fine job.  The team is slumping, yes, but it will come out of it.  And the best team will win.  We all know if could be the Celtics, but more than likely it won’t be.  Been that way all year, even when they were the favorite in everyone’s mind.

I’m sorry, but this perspective is just bonkers and laughable to me.

Yes, having sufficient talent is probably the biggest consideration in winning in the NBA, but the coach/coaching staff are responsible for a whole host of responsibilities: implementing an offensive and defensive philosophy, ensuring the guys fully understand and buy into these philosophies, manage team dynamics and chemistry, decide on rotations, manage runs and rest throughout a game, strategic play-calling and adjustments, etc.

To argue with a straight face that they maybe contribute “4%” to the game is honestly one of the most ludicrous statements I’ve ever heard. If this was truly the case, then they’re clearly not worth their salary and the NBA market would’ve corrected itself by now and got rid of them. Non-sensical.
How about ignoring the fact that this team has a better record than last year and are still a title contender?  It’s certainly possible that last year was lightening in a bottle.  At least in terms of just how good they were in the second half or so. 

My point is whatever people think they see or know about coaching, they don’t really know.  And, yes, the nba is far and away a players league.  You think we’re slumping because of timeouts or rotations, or because our best player was playing bad?  Yes, he played better last night but he didn’t make the play like quickley.  That’s why we lost.

Riding the coattails of the culture and dynamic that Ime and Brad built last year and this summer is hardly a major selling point for Joe. Any Joe Schmo coach could’ve done that with the team he was given and how we started the year shooting.

Yet, when the going got tough and we stopped shooting way over our head and regressed to the mean, his true limitations showed up. We’ve been closer to the faux contender level/high level playoff team status than true contenders since our shooting numbers dipped back to the mean, and that’s because Joe simply hasn’t worked out a philosophy for us to sustain dominance when we’re not hitting a major portion of our threes.

At least with Ime we could *always* hang our hats on defense and energy.
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Re: Let's talk about Joe...
« Reply #16 on: March 06, 2023, 10:56:12 AM »

Offline Kernewek

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At least with a healthy Rob Williams we could *always* hang our hats on defense and energy.

Any issues with this slight rewrite?
"...unceasingly we are bombarded with pseudo-realities manufactured by very sophisticated people using very sophisticated electronic mechanisms. I do not distrust their motives; I distrust their power. They have a lot of it."

Re: Let's talk about Joe...
« Reply #17 on: March 06, 2023, 11:01:21 AM »

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If the team doesn't have a strong showing in the playoffs, he needs to be fired and replaced with an experienced high quality coach.

Awful to waste a Championship window on a trainee coach.

Re: Let's talk about Joe...
« Reply #18 on: March 06, 2023, 11:04:51 AM »

Offline ozgod

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1.  What strengths / weaknesses does he have as a coach?

He empowers his players to take ownership of their performances. According to the six styles of leadership by Harvard's Daniel Goleman he's a coaching type leader - he doesn't coerce people or micromanage (at least not that is obvious). Probably part of this is because of his youth and inexperience, he doesn't have the gravitas of a Carlisle or a Popovich to just come in and throw his weight around, another is because he's coming into a situation coaching a team that already has a solid core of leadership that has been together for years and made it to the Finals so he doesn't feel the need to make wholesale changes to style. I think he sees himself as more of a senpai, guiding them and keeping them focused on the goal. So that's why I think you see him spending a lot of energy on getting the players trained up in thinking for themselves, in reacting to situations because it's all about experiential learning. Sometimes this is to the detriment of daily results, because I feel he's willing to lose games as long as there's teachable moments in the losses. And obviously his biggest weakness is lack of experience - it's hard to be thrown into the cauldron and learn on the fly. I'm sure that like the players, he's also learning and there are things he would take back if he had the chance.

Of course, all this is based on what little I see - I don't know how he acts in training, or in non-game situations.

Quote
2.  Can the weaknesses be covered up by hiring different assistant coaches?

I'm sure they can, and that's probably something they will look into at the end of the season. Brad and Wyc don't strike me as the type of people who overreact to things that happen during the season.

Quote
3.  Did management make a mistake promoting Joe without a safety net?  Should they have acted sooner to address coaching (i.e., when the Ime allegations came to light internally in June)?

I don't think so, obviously the Ime situation threw them for a curve, but most competent organizations always have succession plans in place, and their succession plan clearly included Joe in some form, otherwise they wouldn't have let Will Hardy go. So letting Joe and Will interview for the Jazz position but only letting one of them be recruited suggests that they considered one of the two as a viable candidate to succeed to head coach if anything happened.

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4.  When Tatum says publicly that he preferred Ime to Joe, what do we make of that?

I don't really make anything of it. Technically what he said was Ime was his favorite coach, and I think that's ok. You can have a favorite boss and still be able to work well with your current one.

Quote
5.  Where does he rank among NBA coaches currently?

Well if we go on the basis of results, his team is coming second in the East and has led the East for most of the season, so he must be doing ok  :police: I would put him in the top 15 on that basis. I also don't know enough about their setup to know how much of that is due to Joe and how much is due to the players, but I do know that together they have achieved that result. But ultimately he will be judged on his ability to deliver a championship.


Quote
6.  How important is coaching, particularly in the playoffs?

I think coaching is really important, but not for the reasons a lot of people think. I think just as you can have different types of leaders, you can have different types of coaching styles. For example on one end of the scale you have the NFL style coach where they exert a huge amount of influence in game, they tell the quarterback what plays to run or the defense what scheme to get into, they sub players in and out, it's like they are the person playing chess with the players as pieces. It works because it's a game with many stoppages and each stoppages allows the coach to exert influence on the game.

Then on the other end you have a soccer or rugby coach where, because of the nonstop nature of it once the game kicks off it's really up to the players on the pitch to organize the game, they have a number of set plays and patterns but because of the nature of it it's largely adlib and reactionary. The coach can yell instructions from the sideline, I doubt the players even hear him  :laugh: At that point you have to trust them to execute what you did in training or practice and you trust you put the right players on the pitch to do that.

Basketball kind of falls in between those two extremes for me, you always run plays in practice to get specific players open, like a horns play to either get pick and rolls for your shooters or get the ball in to your post player, or a fist play where you screen the screener to get a perimeter shot, so I'm sure they know all these plays but it's left to the judgement of the players to decide which play to run. So other than ATO plays where the coach has the chance to draw up something specific (e.g. the Tatum three against Philly where he was in the backcourt and got himself free to take a pass from Smart at the perimeter going downhill, I think his influence in that respect is more limited than people think.

Unlike most folks here, I don't think his reluctance to call timeout move the needle more than his decisionmaking when it comes to putting players on the court, which is probably the biggest in game influence that he can have. And the second biggest influence he can have is to make sure he keeps them on track with what the overall tactics are, e.g. against Brooklyn where they devolved into isolation plays instead of doing what had gotten them to a 37-15 lead. In the playoffs, it becomes more pronounced because games are closer, and there's less scope for "letting them learn through experience". That's what the regular season is for, come playoff time you're trying to win every game. I would be disappointed if he continued his "hands off" approach come playoff time when the time for teaching moments should be past.

Where I see the coach having the biggest influence is in getting a team to buy into a style of play that will bring success, developing combinations that will be successful, and to maintain that over a course of a season, and to maintain a harmonious locker room regardless of who is getting minutes or not. And the results of that tend to show out over a period of time - over an entire season. E.g. if we had judged Ime before our run last season most of us would have wanted him fired. Right now Joe has the team in 2nd place in the East. How much of that is his doing vs the players is hard to parse, but together that's their body of work to date. They're wobbling a bit but there have been wobbles earlier in the season too. I think the challenge is to keep the wobbles short and to recover quicker. So far we haven't gone on long runs of consistently subpar play, even though some of the players have had peaks and troughs.

But ultimately Joe will have one metric that he will be judged on - whether he delivers a championship. In some ways its unfair for a first year guy to have such a high bar, but that's the reality of the position he is in. Everyone calling for his head will be singing his praises come season end just like they did with Ime - if he delivers a championship. If not then all bets are off  :police:
Any odd typos are because I suck at typing on an iPhone :D


Re: Let's talk about Joe...
« Reply #19 on: March 06, 2023, 11:05:40 AM »

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Yet, when the going got tough and we stopped shooting way over our head and regressed to the mean, his true limitations showed up. We’ve been closer to the faux contender level/high level playoff team status than true contenders since our shooting numbers dipped back to the mean, and that’s because Joe simply hasn’t worked out a philosophy for us to sustain dominance when we’re not hitting a major portion of our threes.

I am a believer in "class is permanent, form is temporary".

So yes, I am bothered by the disappointing play of late but I still have huge confidence in this team because of the massive amount of talent on this squad. Tatum has become an MVP caliber player. Jaylen Brown is a top 20 player. We have 7 above average players. We have a deep bench.

So yes, we haven't played like the team to beat for awhile now but I still trust the talent more than performance in the long run (of the season).

Re: Let's talk about Joe...
« Reply #20 on: March 06, 2023, 11:26:31 AM »

Offline jpotter33

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At least with a healthy Rob Williams we could *always* hang our hats on defense and energy.

Any issues with this slight rewrite?

That’s certainly part of it, but it’s more than that. Joe simply doesn’t have the same focus on the defensive end as Ime. He doesn’t prioritize it as much.

And while I personally disagree with that approach, that would be fine if we had a *consistently dominant* offensive style and philosophy to fall back and rely on every night. But we don’t. Mazzulla ball consistently requires hitting a high clip of threes with no contingency. And even the excellent ball and player movement of his philosophy is sporadic and interestingly is connected to when we’re hitting threes. When we don’t hit, we fall into iso.

I’ll also say that Mazzulla ball makes the two big lineup less obvious, so among all these issues I don’t think pointing to Rob’s or overall heakth is wholly determinative of the struggles.
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Re: Let's talk about Joe...
« Reply #21 on: March 06, 2023, 11:28:21 AM »

Online Goldstar88

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Quote
1.  What strengths / weaknesses does he have as a coach?

He empowers his players to take ownership of their performances. According to the six styles of leadership by Harvard's Daniel Goleman he's a coaching type leader - he doesn't coerce people or micromanage (at least not that is obvious). Probably part of this is because of his youth and inexperience, he doesn't have the gravitas of a Carlisle or a Popovich to just come in and throw his weight around, another is because he's coming into a situation coaching a team that already has a solid core of leadership that has been together for years and made it to the Finals so he doesn't feel the need to make wholesale changes to style. I think he sees himself as more of a senpai, guiding them and keeping them focused on the goal. So that's why I think you see him spending a lot of energy on getting the players trained up in thinking for themselves, in reacting to situations because it's all about experiential learning. Sometimes this is to the detriment of daily results, because I feel he's willing to lose games as long as there's teachable moments in the losses. And obviously his biggest weakness is lack of experience - it's hard to be thrown into the cauldron and learn on the fly. I'm sure that like the players, he's also learning and there are things he would take back if he had the chance.

Of course, all this is based on what little I see - I don't know how he acts in training, or in non-game situations.

Quote
2.  Can the weaknesses be covered up by hiring different assistant coaches?

I'm sure they can, and that's probably something they will look into at the end of the season. Brad and Wyc don't strike me as the type of people who overreact to things that happen during the season.

Quote
3.  Did management make a mistake promoting Joe without a safety net?  Should they have acted sooner to address coaching (i.e., when the Ime allegations came to light internally in June)?

I don't think so, obviously the Ime situation threw them for a curve, but most competent organizations always have succession plans in place, and their succession plan clearly included Joe in some form, otherwise they wouldn't have let Will Hardy go. So letting Joe and Will interview for the Jazz position but only letting one of them be recruited suggests that they considered one of the two as a viable candidate to succeed to head coach if anything happened.

Quote
4.  When Tatum says publicly that he preferred Ime to Joe, what do we make of that?

I don't really make anything of it. Technically what he said was Ime was his favorite coach, and I think that's ok. You can have a favorite boss and still be able to work well with your current one.

Quote
5.  Where does he rank among NBA coaches currently?

Well if we go on the basis of results, his team is coming second in the East and has led the East for most of the season, so he must be doing ok  :police: I would put him in the top 15 on that basis. I also don't know enough about their setup to know how much of that is due to Joe and how much is due to the players, but I do know that together they have achieved that result. But ultimately he will be judged on his ability to deliver a championship.


Quote
6.  How important is coaching, particularly in the playoffs?

I think coaching is really important, but not for the reasons a lot of people think. I think just as you can have different types of leaders, you can have different types of coaching styles. For example on one end of the scale you have the NFL style coach where they exert a huge amount of influence in game, they tell the quarterback what plays to run or the defense what scheme to get into, they sub players in and out, it's like they are the person playing chess with the players as pieces. It works because it's a game with many stoppages and each stoppages allows the coach to exert influence on the game.

Then on the other end you have a soccer or rugby coach where, because of the nonstop nature of it once the game kicks off it's really up to the players on the pitch to organize the game, they have a number of set plays and patterns but because of the nature of it it's largely adlib and reactionary. The coach can yell instructions from the sideline, I doubt the players even hear him  :laugh: At that point you have to trust them to execute what you did in training or practice and you trust you put the right players on the pitch to do that.

Basketball kind of falls in between those two extremes for me, you always run plays in practice to get specific players open, like a horns play to either get pick and rolls for your shooters or get the ball in to your post player, or a fist play where you screen the screener to get a perimeter shot, so I'm sure they know all these plays but it's left to the judgement of the players to decide which play to run. So other than ATO plays where the coach has the chance to draw up something specific (e.g. the Tatum three against Philly where he was in the backcourt and got himself free to take a pass from Smart at the perimeter going downhill, I think his influence in that respect is more limited than people think.

Unlike most folks here, I don't think his reluctance to call timeout move the needle more than his decisionmaking when it comes to putting players on the court, which is probably the biggest in game influence that he can have. And the second biggest influence he can have is to make sure he keeps them on track with what the overall tactics are, e.g. against Brooklyn where they devolved into isolation plays instead of doing what had gotten them to a 37-15 lead. In the playoffs, it becomes more pronounced because games are closer, and there's less scope for "letting them learn through experience". That's what the regular season is for, come playoff time you're trying to win every game. I would be disappointed if he continued his "hands off" approach come playoff time when the time for teaching moments should be past.

Where I see the coach having the biggest influence is in getting a team to buy into a style of play that will bring success, developing combinations that will be successful, and to maintain that over a course of a season, and to maintain a harmonious locker room regardless of who is getting minutes or not. And the results of that tend to show out over a period of time - over an entire season. E.g. if we had judged Ime before our run last season most of us would have wanted him fired. Right now Joe has the team in 2nd place in the East. How much of that is his doing vs the players is hard to parse, but together that's their body of work to date. They're wobbling a bit but there have been wobbles earlier in the season too. I think the challenge is to keep the wobbles short and to recover quicker. So far we haven't gone on long runs of consistently subpar play, even though some of the players have had peaks and troughs.

But ultimately Joe will have one metric that he will be judged on - whether he delivers a championship. In some ways its unfair for a first year guy to have such a high bar, but that's the reality of the position he is in. Everyone calling for his head will be singing his praises come season end just like they did with Ime - if he delivers a championship. If not then all bets are off  :police:

Excellent post, Ozgod. I hope people take the time to read it. TP.
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Quote
At some point you have to blame the performance on the court on the players on the court. Every loss is not the coach's fault and every win isn't because of the players.

Re: Let's talk about Joe...
« Reply #22 on: March 06, 2023, 11:33:18 AM »

Offline droopdog7

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Nba is 96% players and 4% coach.  And most fans don’t even understand how to actually evaluate the coaching part, obsessing over timeouts and stuff like that. 

Joe is doing a fine job.  The team is slumping, yes, but it will come out of it.  And the best team will win.  We all know if could be the Celtics, but more than likely it won’t be.  Been that way all year, even when they were the favorite in everyone’s mind.

I’m sorry, but this perspective is just bonkers and laughable to me.

Yes, having sufficient talent is probably the biggest consideration in winning in the NBA, but the coach/coaching staff are responsible for a whole host of responsibilities: implementing an offensive and defensive philosophy, ensuring the guys fully understand and buy into these philosophies, manage team dynamics and chemistry, decide on rotations, manage runs and rest throughout a game, strategic play-calling and adjustments, etc.

To argue with a straight face that they maybe contribute “4%” to the game is honestly one of the most ludicrous statements I’ve ever heard. If this was truly the case, then they’re clearly not worth their salary and the NBA market would’ve corrected itself by now and got rid of them. Non-sensical.
How about ignoring the fact that this team has a better record than last year and are still a title contender?  It’s certainly possible that last year was lightening in a bottle.  At least in terms of just how good they were in the second half or so. 

My point is whatever people think they see or know about coaching, they don’t really know.  And, yes, the nba is far and away a players league.  You think we’re slumping because of timeouts or rotations, or because our best player was playing bad?  Yes, he played better last night but he didn’t make the play like quickley.  That’s why we lost.

Riding the coattails of the culture and dynamic that Ime and Brad built last year and this summer is hardly a major selling point for Joe. Any Joe Schmo coach could’ve done that with the team he was given and how we started the year shooting.

Yet, when the going got tough and we stopped shooting way over our head and regressed to the mean, his true limitations showed up. We’ve been closer to the faux contender level/high level playoff team status than true contenders since our shooting numbers dipped back to the mean, and that’s because Joe simply hasn’t worked out a philosophy for us to sustain dominance when we’re not hitting a major portion of our threes.

At least with Ime we could *always* hang our hats on defense and energy.
Anyone can make up reasoning to fit their theory.  Doesn't make it true.  I guess you thought we should have won 70 games.  It's a long season; teams will go up and down.  Shoot, our best player does up and down. 

Re: Let's talk about Joe...
« Reply #23 on: March 06, 2023, 11:37:47 AM »

Offline Phantom255x

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What confuses me is that it legit feels like he changes his own logic/approach every game when it comes to the timeouts. Like if there's two games with the same situation, 20 seconds to go, identical margin, one of those games he will call timeout, another time he won't. And then he explains it based off "his feeling". But a lot of the times when he doesn't call a timeout, it doesn't even look like we have a play set up or called on the court, it's just 1 guy dribbling and then taking the iso-shot while being well covered (usually Tatum)

I think back to the Pacers game. Yeah we won in OT, but late in regulation the C's had a chance to hit the game-winning bucket, but Mazz didn't call timeout and Jaylen threw a terrible pass over Horford that resulted in a turnover and a chance for IND to win late instead. He said it was a "2 on 1" but tbh, the Pacers did have a 2nd guy who was closing in on Horford anyways at an angle. It wasn't a guarantee Horford would even have an open layup, but the dribbling and movement was already erratic to begin with and Mazzulla apparently didn't sense that I guess.
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Re: Let's talk about Joe...
« Reply #24 on: March 06, 2023, 11:47:59 AM »

Offline jpotter33

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Nba is 96% players and 4% coach.  And most fans don’t even understand how to actually evaluate the coaching part, obsessing over timeouts and stuff like that. 

Joe is doing a fine job.  The team is slumping, yes, but it will come out of it.  And the best team will win.  We all know if could be the Celtics, but more than likely it won’t be.  Been that way all year, even when they were the favorite in everyone’s mind.

I’m sorry, but this perspective is just bonkers and laughable to me.

Yes, having sufficient talent is probably the biggest consideration in winning in the NBA, but the coach/coaching staff are responsible for a whole host of responsibilities: implementing an offensive and defensive philosophy, ensuring the guys fully understand and buy into these philosophies, manage team dynamics and chemistry, decide on rotations, manage runs and rest throughout a game, strategic play-calling and adjustments, etc.

To argue with a straight face that they maybe contribute “4%” to the game is honestly one of the most ludicrous statements I’ve ever heard. If this was truly the case, then they’re clearly not worth their salary and the NBA market would’ve corrected itself by now and got rid of them. Non-sensical.
How about ignoring the fact that this team has a better record than last year and are still a title contender?  It’s certainly possible that last year was lightening in a bottle.  At least in terms of just how good they were in the second half or so. 

My point is whatever people think they see or know about coaching, they don’t really know.  And, yes, the nba is far and away a players league.  You think we’re slumping because of timeouts or rotations, or because our best player was playing bad?  Yes, he played better last night but he didn’t make the play like quickley.  That’s why we lost.

Riding the coattails of the culture and dynamic that Ime and Brad built last year and this summer is hardly a major selling point for Joe. Any Joe Schmo coach could’ve done that with the team he was given and how we started the year shooting.

Yet, when the going got tough and we stopped shooting way over our head and regressed to the mean, his true limitations showed up. We’ve been closer to the faux contender level/high level playoff team status than true contenders since our shooting numbers dipped back to the mean, and that’s because Joe simply hasn’t worked out a philosophy for us to sustain dominance when we’re not hitting a major portion of our threes.

At least with Ime we could *always* hang our hats on defense and energy.
Anyone can make up reasoning to fit their theory.  Doesn't make it true.  I guess you thought we should have won 70 games.  It's a long season; teams will go up and down.  Shoot, our best player does up and down.

Oh, you mean like making up an arbitrary and completely unfounded contribution percentage such as - oh, I don’t know - coaches only contribute 4% in the NBA?  ;)
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Re: Let's talk about Joe...
« Reply #25 on: March 06, 2023, 11:59:15 AM »

Offline droopdog7

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Nba is 96% players and 4% coach.  And most fans don’t even understand how to actually evaluate the coaching part, obsessing over timeouts and stuff like that. 

Joe is doing a fine job.  The team is slumping, yes, but it will come out of it.  And the best team will win.  We all know if could be the Celtics, but more than likely it won’t be.  Been that way all year, even when they were the favorite in everyone’s mind.

I’m sorry, but this perspective is just bonkers and laughable to me.

Yes, having sufficient talent is probably the biggest consideration in winning in the NBA, but the coach/coaching staff are responsible for a whole host of responsibilities: implementing an offensive and defensive philosophy, ensuring the guys fully understand and buy into these philosophies, manage team dynamics and chemistry, decide on rotations, manage runs and rest throughout a game, strategic play-calling and adjustments, etc.

To argue with a straight face that they maybe contribute “4%” to the game is honestly one of the most ludicrous statements I’ve ever heard. If this was truly the case, then they’re clearly not worth their salary and the NBA market would’ve corrected itself by now and got rid of them. Non-sensical.
How about ignoring the fact that this team has a better record than last year and are still a title contender?  It’s certainly possible that last year was lightening in a bottle.  At least in terms of just how good they were in the second half or so. 

My point is whatever people think they see or know about coaching, they don’t really know.  And, yes, the nba is far and away a players league.  You think we’re slumping because of timeouts or rotations, or because our best player was playing bad?  Yes, he played better last night but he didn’t make the play like quickley.  That’s why we lost.

Riding the coattails of the culture and dynamic that Ime and Brad built last year and this summer is hardly a major selling point for Joe. Any Joe Schmo coach could’ve done that with the team he was given and how we started the year shooting.

Yet, when the going got tough and we stopped shooting way over our head and regressed to the mean, his true limitations showed up. We’ve been closer to the faux contender level/high level playoff team status than true contenders since our shooting numbers dipped back to the mean, and that’s because Joe simply hasn’t worked out a philosophy for us to sustain dominance when we’re not hitting a major portion of our threes.

At least with Ime we could *always* hang our hats on defense and energy.
Anyone can make up reasoning to fit their theory.  Doesn't make it true.  I guess you thought we should have won 70 games.  It's a long season; teams will go up and down.  Shoot, our best player does up and down.

Oh, you mean like making up an arbitrary and completely unfounded contribution percentage such as - oh, I don’t know - coaches only contribute 4% in the NBA?  ;)
Have you ever heard of hyperbole?  The NBA is a players league.  Period.  Yes, there are bad coaches in the league.  Yes, some are better than others.  But they don't make a huge difference AND the fan doesn't really know how to judge them except for wins and losses.  So it's useless to be talking about timeouts and rotations and stuff like that.  I am okay with watching it play out and judge at the end.

Re: Let's talk about Joe...
« Reply #26 on: March 06, 2023, 12:17:10 PM »

Offline jpotter33

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https://www.masslive.com/celtics/2023/03/celtics-questionable-crunch-time-choices-resurface-in-overtime-loss-to-knicks.html

Brian Robb rightfully calling out Joe for some of the decisions last night, and that’s primarily just focusing on the one in double OT.
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Re: Let's talk about Joe...
« Reply #27 on: March 06, 2023, 12:37:23 PM »

Offline Csfan1984

  • Don Nelson
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On Joe I have three things,

Late game= I prefer to let guys gain experience and feel things out like Joe does late game. The playoffs can have that feel the entire 4qtrs of games so better to get used to the pressure than keep bailing players out with time outs. The regular season is for building so let guys build resistance to the pressure.

DNPs= The rotations, lineups and including player days-off seems the bigger issues. Not sure if that is management team or Joe himself. Why are guys not sketchy with their playing time?

Effort=Too often guys aren't dialed in or ready to compete. Specifically they are not willing to grind against lesser teams. Not sure if that is on Joe though.

Re: Let's talk about Joe...
« Reply #28 on: March 06, 2023, 12:52:41 PM »

Online Who

  • James Naismith
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Nba is 96% players and 4% coach.

The old idea was that a great coach can add 10 wins to a team whereas a bad coach can take away 10 wins. I found that to be generally true.

That only spoke to a small number of great coaches and a small number of terrible coaches. Not the majority of coaches who are much of the same (largely average, slighty above average or below average but fairly ... average). Little to no separation among them. They do not make a difference. Not because they are not solid coaches but because almost everyone has a similarly solid coach so they do not stand out much either positively or negatively.

I believe this is where Joe Mazzulla is. He is not a terrible coach. The team has done well and had organization on the whole. But is he a great coach? Jury is out on that and early returns are not great. Most likely just another one of the average coaches in the league who do not stand out much from one another. Maybe different strengths and weakness but overall? Much of a muchness.

Re: Let's talk about Joe...
« Reply #29 on: March 06, 2023, 01:22:08 PM »

Offline #1P4P

  • Jayson Tatum
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1. Preparation and trust vital to success and Maz employs them. Like Phil Jackson, he prepares the players before the game and trusts them to figure it out without feeling the need to interrupt play to remind them what the objective is. The vast majority of the work is done pre-game, not in-game.

His weakness is not seeing the value in offense inside the arch. There’s a change of pace and space that takes place in the 4th quarter and the importance of bread and butter plays inside the arch is vital. Mazzulla ball is good while most of the role players are fresh and shooting over 40%, how good will it be in the trenches of the playoffs? 3 is more than 2, what about 0 when you need a points?

2. Regardless of the coach on his staff, it’s up to him to adjust his philosophy in the areas it needs adjustment.

3. Maz was already identified as a future Head Coach candidate. He’s a holdover from Brad’s staff and was/is the safety net.

4. Tatum has a better relationship with Ime and that doesn’t equate to a better Head Coach.

5. The team has a top 3 record in the NBA and projects to have its highest win total since 08-09 despite injuries and other circumstances. The playoffs are a big indicator of quality and he down have one so it is too early to tell.

6. Coaching is very important; the quality of the HC can lower and raise floors and ceilings. Maz’ ability to get the team clicking on all cylinders will determine whether this team wins a Championship this season or not.