How much has JB sacrificed?

[ChillyWilly]

Scottie Pippen is still bitter he was #2 and he won 6 rings and 0 as a #1 so I dont care about Jaylen's feelings.

[Kernewek]

Many good thoughts in the above, thanks for those.

Now, is his legacy better or worse than if he retires ringless?

I don’t think KD needs to worry about his legacy. He isn’t going to be compared to Jordan and Lebron, but I think he is firmly in the top 20 players of all time. Great scorer.

I think you're right but I also think that if anyone cares about his legacy, it's Kevin Durant.

[td450]

I have no idea how Jaylen would expand on his comments, but the C's have built the team around Tatum and developed him as the primary decision maker.

Tatum got to explore the role of primary ball handler very early, a few years before he truly earned it. The team groomed him for that.

Jaylen gets a lot of the same trappings as Jayson does. They talk about him and treat him like a superstar. He gets to take the quantity of shots of a superstar. But they have always asked him to fill in his opportunities for offense around Tatum, and only as he has matured as a major scorer have they given him a bit of rope as an instigator in the offense.

The C's give him space to find his shots, and have developed some schemes to put him in good spots to attack. But they have never really focused on maximizing what he can do. He mostly gets his own shots. He could score more assisted baskets, particularly inside where he can pin smaller guards and easily score over them. They could design more sets for him.

[Moranis]

Many good thoughts in the above, thanks for those.

Now, is his legacy better or worse than if he retires ringless?

I don’t think KD needs to worry about his legacy. He isn’t going to be compared to Jordan and Lebron, but I think he is firmly in the top 20 players of all time. Great scorer.

I think you're right but I also think that if anyone cares about his legacy, it's Kevin Durant.

I have him around 15 right now, it has been a little bit since I actually thought about it.  Of active players I have Durant 3rd (behind Lebron and Curry), but Giannis is rapidly gaining on him and if Jokic can win a title he will start to enter the conversation as a real possibility to pass him up (though I think Jokic still needs several more years of similar play to legitimately pass him, but a title will go a long way to bridging that gap)

[ozgod]

This isn't a "bash Jaylen" thread.  It's not a "does Jaylen help us win" thread.  But, in an interview JB touched on a narrative that has been in place for years now:

On Saturday, Brown opened up about how he has learned to embrace his role and coexist with his superstar teammate.

"It takes sacrifice on my behalf," Brown told reporters at NBA All-Star Weekend in Salt Lake City. "It's definitely a lot of opportunities that you can be a guy. But the ultimate goal for me and Jayson has always been to win games.

"So when you see team dynamics, there's nothing wrong with doing your job on the team. So throughout my career, I've learned to be and play the role that has been needed for me to play, and I think that's part of why the success has been able to happen. Being able to humble yourself and be like yeah, I know I could be something somewhere else, but there's no problem being a great team guy and winning here in Boston."

While Brown might be considered the Celtics' No. 2 option, you wouldn't know it looking strictly at the numbers. The 26-year-old is averaging a career-high 26.5 points and 7.0 rebounds per game while shooting 48.7 percent from the floor. His outstanding play earned him the second All-Star nod of his career.

First, the context is important, regarding humbling himself and being a great team guy.  That's the right mindset.

But, in terms of "sacrifice", is that necessarily so?  JB is a two-time All-Star with a shot at All-NBA.  He's going to get a max contract, and perhaps a supermax. 

He's only getting 1.2 FGAs fewer than Tatum per game, and he's presumably seeing fewer double teams, etc., than he would on another squad.  He gets moments to shine in the 4th quarter, as he and Tatum take about the same number of shots in the 4th.

The one area I can't speak to is marketing.  Tatum is probably seen as the bigger star and gets more credit for the team's success.  But, the grass isn't always greener there, either.  JB could easily be living Paul Pierce's existence leading a borderline playoff team.  Pierce was a hero locally, but I don't think he ever got the league-wide acclaim that JB might be hoping for.

I think that a lot of guys, in all sports, have thoughts like this.  A famous example is Kyrie with Lebron.  Kyrie resented being in Lebron's shadow, and now three teams later he's still looking for the right fit.  His star was never as bright as when he was sharing the spotlight. 

So, I guess that's the argument:  if Jaylen left Boston to be the clear #1 on another team, would he blossom?  Or, is his best situation individually in Boston?

I really feel like he's mainly sacrificed his ego to be the top dog. He probably saw himself as the "elder brother" in the Jays partnership, because he was drafted a year earlier, but JT quickly surpassed him to be the alpha. That was probably a bit of a pill for him to swallow, as a prideful kind of guy. But in terms of money or recognition or ability to shine, I think he's done pretty well for himself all told.

[Somebody]

This isn't a "bash Jaylen" thread.  It's not a "does Jaylen help us win" thread.  But, in an interview JB touched on a narrative that has been in place for years now:

On Saturday, Brown opened up about how he has learned to embrace his role and coexist with his superstar teammate.

"It takes sacrifice on my behalf," Brown told reporters at NBA All-Star Weekend in Salt Lake City. "It's definitely a lot of opportunities that you can be a guy. But the ultimate goal for me and Jayson has always been to win games.

"So when you see team dynamics, there's nothing wrong with doing your job on the team. So throughout my career, I've learned to be and play the role that has been needed for me to play, and I think that's part of why the success has been able to happen. Being able to humble yourself and be like yeah, I know I could be something somewhere else, but there's no problem being a great team guy and winning here in Boston."

While Brown might be considered the Celtics' No. 2 option, you wouldn't know it looking strictly at the numbers. The 26-year-old is averaging a career-high 26.5 points and 7.0 rebounds per game while shooting 48.7 percent from the floor. His outstanding play earned him the second All-Star nod of his career.

First, the context is important, regarding humbling himself and being a great team guy.  That's the right mindset.

But, in terms of "sacrifice", is that necessarily so?  JB is a two-time All-Star with a shot at All-NBA.  He's going to get a max contract, and perhaps a supermax. 

He's only getting 1.2 FGAs fewer than Tatum per game, and he's presumably seeing fewer double teams, etc., than he would on another squad.  He gets moments to shine in the 4th quarter, as he and Tatum take about the same number of shots in the 4th.

The one area I can't speak to is marketing.  Tatum is probably seen as the bigger star and gets more credit for the team's success.  But, the grass isn't always greener there, either.  JB could easily be living Paul Pierce's existence leading a borderline playoff team.  Pierce was a hero locally, but I don't think he ever got the league-wide acclaim that JB might be hoping for.

I think that a lot of guys, in all sports, have thoughts like this.  A famous example is Kyrie with Lebron.  Kyrie resented being in Lebron's shadow, and now three teams later he's still looking for the right fit.  His star was never as bright as when he was sharing the spotlight. 

So, I guess that's the argument:  if Jaylen left Boston to be the clear #1 on another team, would he blossom?  Or, is his best situation individually in Boston?

I think he would blossom if he went to the right team (assuming that he doesn't take another leap as a player). Jaylen's in that group of players who I wouldn't be incredibly surprised if you told me that he's the best player on a title-winning team, but he needs a lot of support around him to get there - you can't put three and D players next to him and expect that team to compete for a title.

[Csfan1984]

Based on this year everyone is sacrificing other than GW who is just in a funk. Everyone is showing they are capable of more than what they can provide so far. I think it's a great job by the players and the management for getting this level of talent together.

I feel Brown can be a number one at least as good as Butler or DeRozan, at best PG13. So he is definitely sacrificing.

I feel we have three guards in White, Smart, and Brogdon that are each good enough be getting 24 to 30 minutes a game so they are sacrificing.

PP, Hauser, and Blake rack up DNPs when on a lot of teams they would play 5 to 15 minutes a game.

Al even when he feels good is taking rest JIC and in B2Bs.

Tatum if he got 25 shots a game and played in a star favored system would be posting 35/6/11. He would at least get the scoring title but he sacrificing shots and possessions for the team.

So again I think everyone is sacrificing.

[#1P4P]

JB's sacrificed production to be on this team. It's a part of being on a winning/contending team with structure and defined roles. He knows that he can produce more and is limited due to his role.

Jaylen's been top 12 in FGA's for the past 3 seasons, so he hasn't sacrificed as much as he might think he has, but he has. Some seasons more than others, but I would guess Jaylen's sacrificed around 10-30% of traditional and advanced stats plus accolades. With Siakam and Randle having been recent All NBA selections, advanced stats undervaluing non-bigs and non-first options,  and a younger comp like Jalen Green averaging more than Jaylen did until his 5th season, it's clear that JB's sacrificed to be on this team.

Brogdon's experienced both sides of the coin as a young role player on a contender and first option on a lottery team. That is part of the reason that it's great to have guys like him and Al on this team to give Jaylen their experience on how winning and contributing to a winning team in your role is greater than being the best player on a losing team.

[Muzzy66]

There is also another side of the coin too - how many easy/open looks does Jaylen Brown get because of the sheer amount of attention that Tatum draws?

If Jaylen was a #1 option on another team maybe he could average 28 -29 PPG, but how would it impact his percentages from the field, from three?  Would his assist numbers suffer from him not having a Tatum to pass to?

That iikely goes both ways as well.  Having a #2 guy as good as Brown undoubtedly takes pressure off Tatum too. 

As much as both guys do have to sacrifice in some ways for each other, they also benefit from each other's presence.