How much has JB sacrificed?

[bdm860]

I don't think he's still sacrificing as much now as he was a few years ago.

My first thought was wondering if he's talking about his whole career in Boston rather than right now with Tatum.

His rookie year, he's like the 8th man in the regular season, 9th man in the playoffs.  Sure he had more team success, but Simmons (after sitting out a year), Ingram, Hield, Murray all got more minutes and shots as rookies.  I bet most rookies in Jaylen's situation feel like they could be doing more if given the chance.

In '18, gets to start every game.  And while he's 2nd in FGA during the regular season, the ball is essentially being shared evenly between with 6 guys averaging between 9.5 and 11.5 FGA.  Then he steps up in the playoffs, 2nd in scoring, 1st in FGA, ups his season average by 3.5 ppg, helping the team to Game 7 of the ECF.  Games of 30 and 34 in Round 1, 24 in the closeout 2 point win vs Philly in Round 2.  Leading scorer in 2 games vs CLE, and 27 in another.  Who wouldn't feel like they deserve a bigger role going into next year?

Then going into '19 sees a drop in minutes and shots and comes off the bench most of the year as the team tries to reincorporate Hayward, while  still giving Irving, Morris, Tatum, Rozier, Smart, Horford shots.

'20 getting more shots and a bigger role, but still sharing with Hayward, and Walker replaces Irving.

Much less sacrificing since (but still probably feels like he could be All-Star in '21, and more All-NBA votes without Tatum).


Jaylen always seems like a guy who has a chip on his shoulder (has talked about high school teachers disrespecting him, Billy Donovan disrespecting him as Team USA U18 coach, fighting for the "unjust" treatment of Kyrie ), so also wouldn't be surprised for him to feel he's sacrificing something now still, but also hope he's referring more to his earlier years in Boston.

[Kernewek]

Agreed with the above - I can see where he's coming from, but 'sacrifice' in the form of having talented colleagues who actively make your professional life easier is an interesting descriptor. There's loads of single-competitor sports if you want to find out just how you stack up against your contemporaries. Team games are, necessarily, a different dynamic.

[celticsclay]

Since it has come up again with this topic I would really ask that we stop trying to use games brown doesn’t play, games tatum doesn’t play small samples to make points about how one would perform without the other.

 As someone astutely pointed out in the misuse of Celtics record without brown thread, context matters and the fact that all the games the Celtics played without brown except for one this year where against the worst teams in the league was about as darning a rebuttal as you could have to this kind of stuff.

 Here, we should also point out that the Celtics and other team around the league often rest their starters in batches. Are games tatum missed ones where smart and Horford also rested? Was it against the bucks or against the pistons? Was it a blowout where they only Played 28 minutes?

They are just extra ripe to be misused to create a narrative and there are a lot better measures and stats we have available to use than that.

[celticsclay]

Roy to answer your question I suspect that the area that brown has sacrificed the most is with respect to being a face of a franchise and a marketing opportunities more than actual shots on the court. I wouldn’t be surprised if klay Thompson has felt a little bit similar at times in his career as he probably would have been as a bit more of a superstar in his peak if he was not next to curry.

[Goldstar88]

Roy to answer your question I suspect that the area that brown has sacrificed the most is with respect to being a face of a franchise and a marketing opportunities more than actual shots on the court. I wouldn’t be surprised if klay Thompson has felt a little bit similar at times in his career as he probably would have been as a bit more of a superstar in his peak if he was not next to curry.

Completely agree, TP. I was thinking about Klay as well when Roy posted this thread.

[Roy H.]

Roy to answer your question I suspect that the area that brown has sacrificed the most is with respect to being a face of a franchise and a marketing opportunities more than actual shots on the court. I wouldn’t be surprised if klay Thompson has felt a little bit similar at times in his career as he probably would have been as a bit more of a superstar in his peak if he was not next to curry.

I think that being "face of a franchise" isn't always what players hope it will be.  That's why I brought Kyrie up.  He thought he wanted to lead a team and be the face of a franchise.  Since a two year failed experiment at that, he's glommed on to Durant and Luka, and has yearned for a reunion with Lebron. 

[Kernewek]

To that end, did Kevin Durant sacrifice anything of any real value when he signed with Golden State?

[celticsclay]

Roy to answer your question I suspect that the area that brown has sacrificed the most is with respect to being a face of a franchise and a marketing opportunities more than actual shots on the court. I wouldn’t be surprised if klay Thompson has felt a little bit similar at times in his career as he probably would have been as a bit more of a superstar in his peak if he was not next to curry.

I think that being "face of a franchise" isn't always what players hope it will be.  That's why I brought Kyrie up.  He thought he wanted to lead a team and be the face of a franchise.  Since a two year failed experiment at that, he's glommed on to Durant and Luka, and has yearned for a reunion with Lebron.

I agree. But there are also examples of it working. Like I really don’t think harden would have been regarded as highly or made as much money if he had stayed in OKC (although may they would have traded Westbrook and won championships).

[celticsclay]

To that end, did Kevin Durant sacrifice anything of any real value when he signed with Golden State?

It definitely still bothers him greatly how that move was perceived by fans and those around the NBA. He literally created burner accounts to argue with people about it. If he could do it all over again and could be guaranteed of winning a title in Boston as the clear leas star i I bet he would do a redo and sign with us.

[Moranis]

To that end, did Kevin Durant sacrifice anything of any real value when he signed with Golden State?

I think his legacy has been hurt some.  I mean of all of the players that have been the best player on back to back championships or heck even just won 2 championships as the best player, he is one of the lowest rated despite being one of the best scorers and shooters in league history.  I think he is behind Kobe, as an example, even though I think Durant is better than Kobe.  I mean he was the best player on a back-to-back championships and didn't even finish in the top 6 in MVP voting either season.  That doesn't happen.  I don't know if that is a sacrifice, but it did affect him negatively.

[Phantom255x]

To that end, did Kevin Durant sacrifice anything of any real value when he signed with Golden State?

I think his legacy has been hurt some.  I mean of all of the players that have been the best player on back to back championships or heck even just won 2 championships as the best player, he is one of the lowest rated despite being one of the best scorers and shooters in league history.  I think he is behind Kobe, as an example, even though I think Durant is better than Kobe.  I mean he was the best player on a back-to-back championships and didn't even finish in the top 6 in MVP voting either season.  That doesn't happen.  I don't know if that is a sacrifice, but it did affect him negatively.

Yeah whether it's fair or not, I think most people (fans, former players, media, etc.) will always hold it against Durant. So many people say that Dirk's 1 ring, or even Lebron's 1 ring with Cleveland alone holds more weight than Durant's two, and I can't help but think that how his Nets tenure went will also be scrutinized. KD couldn't win without a stacked Golden State is going to be the headline.

And the fact that KD is sensitive to this stuff and has burner accounts all over social media kind of cements this and proves it true as well.

[Kernewek]

Many good thoughts in the above, thanks for those.

Now, is his legacy better or worse than if he retires ringless?

[Roy H.]

Many good thoughts in the above, thanks for those.

Now, is his legacy better or worse than if he retires ringless?

I've got to think that "couldn't win it on his own" is better than "couldn't win it at all".

[MarcusSmartFanClub]

Many good thoughts in the above, thanks for those.

Now, is his legacy better or worse than if he retires ringless?

I don’t think KD needs to worry about his legacy. He isn’t going to be compared to Jordan and Lebron, but I think he is firmly in the top 20 players of all time. Great scorer.

[Vermont Green]

Many good thoughts in the above, thanks for those.

Now, is his legacy better or worse than if he retires ringless?

Right.  Think of Scottie Pippen.  Would he have had a better legacy if he had played for lesser teams but was the main guy on those teams?  I don't think so for Pippen and I think it is the same for Brown.  Brown has a higher profile in the league right now for having played in the finals.