NBA Season 2022-23

[tazzmaniac]

David Robinson is a weird inclusion, as he made the conference finals exactly once before Tim Duncan was drafted - at 29 years old in his sixth season. If anything, he's the closest contemporary to Embiid on your list.

In other words, in't it pretty easy to see Embiid on a championship team winning his first title in Robinson's situation - once the team drafted a better player and he was on the downswing of his career at 33?

Oh Embid definitely could change this narrative my making a conference finals or especially even if a finals. I’m just saying it is more than time for him to get out of second round if he wants to be a truly great player. The problem I fear for him is that he may be a better regular season player than playoff player. For one, they seem to let post play get more physical in the playoffs without as many fouls called (some argument this is why we havent seen a lot of dominant centers on championship teams recently. In addition he has definitely been worn down in seasons past by the time he reaches the playoffs.

I think that's been much more of an organizational failure than on him. You can only do so much as one player (see late 80s Jordan for example).  The Process failed them.   For the most part, they've been getting eliminated by teams that were just plain better than them.

The process didn't fail them.  The process ended as an incomplete when Hinkie was fired after 3 seasons when the owner caved to pressure from the NBA commissioner.  The process got them Embiid who led them to 4 50-win seasons and a 49-win short season in 6 seasons.  That's their best performance since the mid 80s.  The post process is what failed them.  Lots of poor decisions and squandered resources.

There's no guarantee Hinkie would have made better decisions than Colangelo and there's absolutely no evidence at all that he could actually put together an NBA roster that would win more games than it lost. Joel Embiid didn't play a single game for Philladelphia during Hinkie's tenure as GM - a tenure that saw Philly win 47 games over three seasons. Hell, they only won 28 games in Embiid's rookie year. The team doesn't get good until 2018, when Ben Simmons finally makes his debut, a guy who Hinkie had no say in drafting.

While it's true that Embiid is essentially the only piece of Hinkie's legacy left in the league, that cuts both ways: if the only way to validate (or invalidate) The Process is by virtue of the Sixers becoming contenders with any of the pieces and assets Hinkie put into place, we're effectively always going to be talking about Schrödinger's tank job.

David Robinson is a weird inclusion, as he made the conference finals exactly once before Tim Duncan was drafted - at 29 years old in his sixth season. If anything, he's the closest contemporary to Embiid on your list.

In other words, in't it pretty easy to see Embiid on a championship team winning his first title in Robinson's situation - once the team drafted a better player and he was on the downswing of his career at 33?

Oh Embid definitely could change this narrative my making a conference finals or especially even if a finals. I’m just saying it is more than time for him to get out of second round if he wants to be a truly great player. The problem I fear for him is that he may be a better regular season player than playoff player. For one, they seem to let post play get more physical in the playoffs without as many fouls called (some argument this is why we havent seen a lot of dominant centers on championship teams recently. In addition he has definitely been worn down in seasons past by the time he reaches the playoffs.

Agree with all of this, but I think my opinion of him is the same if he loses in the 2nd round or gets swept in a Conference Final, for example.

I agree that there is no guarantee how well Hinkie would have done if he hadn't been fired.
The process ended with Hinkie's firing.  All the mistakes and bungling that occurred afterwards can't be attributed to Hinkie or the process.  That's why I called the process incomplete. 

You are correct that Embiid didn't even play a single game for Hinkie.  The reason the Sixers only won 28 games in Embiid's rookie season was because Embiid only played 31 games.  The next season they did get Simmons but Embiid also played 63 games. 

[tazzmaniac]

Rudy Gobert suspended one game by team for misconduct (punching Kyle Anderson) in previous game. Will not travel to LA for play-in tournament.

This is actually the game where they need all-hands on deck. I know ya want to do the suspension to prove a point and send a message, but this is a play-in that could decide making the playoffs and how far you get in the playoffs lol. Maybe do the suspension in Game 1 of the playoffs or start of next season idk lol

Wolves with Gobert can take down shorthanded Memphis. And could give Nuggets some fits.

If they lose to LA for the 7 seed, they'll have Gobert back when they play for the 8 seed against the winner of the 9 and 10 seeds. 

[Moranis]

Hinkie did draft Jerami Grant and Richaun  Holmes and gave Robert Covington his big break.  It isn't just Embiid still around from his short time in the league.

[Kernewek]

Hinkie did draft Jerami Grant and Richaun  Holmes and gave Robert Covington his big break.  It isn't just Embiid still around from his short time in the league.

Technically correct, the best kind of correct. I would say in general that this is not meaningfully different from any other GM's performance in evaluating talent in a three year period, and it's worth pointing out that essentially none of those guys had much success with Philadelphia save Covington in his last year (with Simmons and Embiid).

All that to say, 'The Process' was most prominently a branding exercise lead by a raging narcissist who was unable to acknowledge the fact that promoting his own genius would prove terminal to his NBA career, if not his ego.

edit: a word.

[Vermont Green]

Hinkie did draft Jerami Grant and Richaun  Holmes and gave Robert Covington his big break.  It isn't just Embiid still around from his short time in the league.

Technically correct, the best kind of correct. I would say in general that this is not meaningfully different from any other GM's performance in evaluating talent in a three year period, and it's worth pointing out that essentially none of those guys had much success with Philadelphia save Covington in his last year (with Simmons and Embiid).

All that to say, 'The Process' was most prominently a branding exercise lead by a raging narcissist who was unable to acknowledge the fact that promoting his own genius would prove terminal to his NBA career, if not his ego.

edit: a word.

I am not sure what the debate is here.  Embiid is a generationally good player.  Top of the league, unstoppable when right.  No debate there.  There is also no debate that the Sixers have botched their "process".  Letting Jimmy Butler go and signing Harris, trading Tatum for Fultz, these are just the headlines.

They were actually granted a reprieve of sorts when the Nets gave them Harden for Simmons but Harden is going to prove to be too little too late to make something of the process.  It doesn't look like Harden is ever going to be "right" again.

It is not easy to build a title team.  You have to draft well, trade well, sign well, and sometimes, just get lucky.  Golden State drafts an undersized point guard from Davidson, with bad ankles, with the 7th pick, and he turns out to be the best shooter in the history of the game.  They then built on that with a number of savvy moves.

PHI hit the jack pot with Embiid, took a chance on an injured big who couldn't even play for the first two seasons, and he was the one, out of all those picks, that was the biggest prize.  Who would have thought.

[Moranis]

Hinkie did draft Jerami Grant and Richaun  Holmes and gave Robert Covington his big break.  It isn't just Embiid still around from his short time in the league.

Technically correct, the best kind of correct. I would say in general that this is not meaningfully different from any other GM's performance in evaluating talent in a three year period, and it's worth pointing out that essentially none of those guys had much success with Philadelphia save Covington in his last year (with Simmons and Embiid).

All that to say, 'The Process' was most prominently a branding exercise lead by a raging narcissist who was unable to acknowledge the fact that promoting his own genius would prove terminal to his NBA career, if not his ego.

edit: a word.

Covington was a major piece in the Butler trade.  They traded Grant for Ilyasova and the pick that became Maxey.  Hinkie's goal was to create assets and the potential to land the mega star.  He landed the mega star in Embiid and put the Sixers in a position to cash in the assets, not once (Butler), but twice (Harden).  It was the poor job by the subsequent GM's that wasted all of the extra 1st round picks and valuable players in the team building process (I mean the Fultz trade is a prime example, moving up, giving up a future lottery pick to do so, and then drafting the wrong player and then giving up on him for pennies on the dollar is basically the epitome of stupidity - and they were only in that position because of a trade Hinkie had made that allowed the Sixers to swap with the Kings moving from 5 to 3).  I have no idea if Hinkie would have been able to accomplish the team building phase, but Hinkie accomplished the 1st phase i.e. replenishing the Sixers cupboards which were bare when he took over and I don't think he'd have been worse at team building than what they ended up with (and I don't think he moves up for Fultz at all, that isn't a Hinkie type trade). 

[Kernewek]

So you're right that the Sixers were going to be bad with or without Hinkie at the helm - Billy King & company had already seen to that (hence the turnover). But 'creating assets' by fielding a non-competitive team that is so blatantly trying to suck that agents won't schedule workouts with you because they're afraid their players are going to wind up in your organisation is as clear and obvious a non-starter for the job of NBA General Manager that it doesn't need to be said.


Beyond that, drafting Embiid wasn't a galaxy-brained take - in fact it was probably a disappointment for Philly. At the time they almost certainly would have taken Wiggins with the #1 pick just like everyone else (or, in a different universe, they wind up with Wiggins because Embiid doesn't break his foot and becomes a Cavalier). Was Embiid a better choice than, say, Dante Exum? Sure. But having 'the mega star' wash up on your doorstep owing to factors beyond your control isn't an illustration of your genius - we don't need to look much further than, say, Elon Musk to see that.

[Goldstar88]

Luka Doncic on playing with Kyrie Irving: 'It's a great fit'

Grant Afseth: Luka Doncic was asked if he plans to assist the Dallas Mavericks in their efforts to re-sign Kyrie Irving in free agency. “I mean, yeah. I think it’s a great fit. Obviously, people are going to say no. I mean, I look at the results we’re having, but you know, like I said, chemistry and relationships take time. I wish he can still be here.” – via Twitter

Mavs confident about chances of keeping Kyrie Irving:

Irving’s current deal will come to an end after this season. The Mavs obviously knew this coming in when they pulled the trigger on the blockbuster trade with the Brooklyn Nets, and they were well aware of the fact that there was a significant risk of Kyrie being nothing more than a half-season rental for them. If you ask ESPN’s NBA guru Ramona Shelburne, however, she is adamant that the Mavs will be able to strike a deal with Irving this summer: “They feel really good about their chances of keeping Kyrie Irving,” Shelburne said. “When they traded for him, they had an option, obviously, to sign him for a two-year extension. He wants more than two years. … Kyrie wants four. So, it may come down to whether or not they’re willing to go to that fourth year. – via Paolo Songco @ Clutch Points

[Phantom255x]

Luka Doncic on playing with Kyrie Irving: 'It's a great fit'

Grant Afseth: Luka Doncic was asked if he plans to assist the Dallas Mavericks in their efforts to re-sign Kyrie Irving in free agency. “I mean, yeah. I think it’s a great fit. Obviously, people are going to say no. I mean, I look at the results we’re having, but you know, like I said, chemistry and relationships take time. I wish he can still be here.” – via Twitter

Mavs confident about chances of keeping Kyrie Irving:

Irving’s current deal will come to an end after this season. The Mavs obviously knew this coming in when they pulled the trigger on the blockbuster trade with the Brooklyn Nets, and they were well aware of the fact that there was a significant risk of Kyrie being nothing more than a half-season rental for them. If you ask ESPN’s NBA guru Ramona Shelburne, however, she is adamant that the Mavs will be able to strike a deal with Irving this summer: “They feel really good about their chances of keeping Kyrie Irving,” Shelburne said. “When they traded for him, they had an option, obviously, to sign him for a two-year extension. He wants more than two years. … Kyrie wants four. So, it may come down to whether or not they’re willing to go to that fourth year. – via Paolo Songco @ Clutch Points

If they offer Kyrie the 4/200M, he'd be stupid not to take it and stay. But anything short, he's gone. That said, even if he signs the 4/200M he could easily just orchestrate a way out of Dallas in a year or two if things go sour again. That's just the new NBA now

[Roy H.]

Luka Doncic on playing with Kyrie Irving: 'It's a great fit'

Grant Afseth: Luka Doncic was asked if he plans to assist the Dallas Mavericks in their efforts to re-sign Kyrie Irving in free agency. “I mean, yeah. I think it’s a great fit. Obviously, people are going to say no. I mean, I look at the results we’re having, but you know, like I said, chemistry and relationships take time. I wish he can still be here.” – via Twitter

Mavs confident about chances of keeping Kyrie Irving:

Irving’s current deal will come to an end after this season. The Mavs obviously knew this coming in when they pulled the trigger on the blockbuster trade with the Brooklyn Nets, and they were well aware of the fact that there was a significant risk of Kyrie being nothing more than a half-season rental for them. If you ask ESPN’s NBA guru Ramona Shelburne, however, she is adamant that the Mavs will be able to strike a deal with Irving this summer: “They feel really good about their chances of keeping Kyrie Irving,” Shelburne said. “When they traded for him, they had an option, obviously, to sign him for a two-year extension. He wants more than two years. … Kyrie wants four. So, it may come down to whether or not they’re willing to go to that fourth year. – via Paolo Songco @ Clutch Points

If they offer Kyrie the 4/200M, he'd be stupid not to take it and stay. But anything short, he's gone. That said, even if he signs the 4/200M he could easily just orchestrate a way out of Dallas in a year or two if things go sour again. That's just the new NBA now

You think so?  Who would offer him anything close to that on the free agent market?

[Phantom255x]

Luka Doncic on playing with Kyrie Irving: 'It's a great fit'

Grant Afseth: Luka Doncic was asked if he plans to assist the Dallas Mavericks in their efforts to re-sign Kyrie Irving in free agency. “I mean, yeah. I think it’s a great fit. Obviously, people are going to say no. I mean, I look at the results we’re having, but you know, like I said, chemistry and relationships take time. I wish he can still be here.” – via Twitter

Mavs confident about chances of keeping Kyrie Irving:

Irving’s current deal will come to an end after this season. The Mavs obviously knew this coming in when they pulled the trigger on the blockbuster trade with the Brooklyn Nets, and they were well aware of the fact that there was a significant risk of Kyrie being nothing more than a half-season rental for them. If you ask ESPN’s NBA guru Ramona Shelburne, however, she is adamant that the Mavs will be able to strike a deal with Irving this summer: “They feel really good about their chances of keeping Kyrie Irving,” Shelburne said. “When they traded for him, they had an option, obviously, to sign him for a two-year extension. He wants more than two years. … Kyrie wants four. So, it may come down to whether or not they’re willing to go to that fourth year. – via Paolo Songco @ Clutch Points

If they offer Kyrie the 4/200M, he'd be stupid not to take it and stay. But anything short, he's gone. That said, even if he signs the 4/200M he could easily just orchestrate a way out of Dallas in a year or two if things go sour again. That's just the new NBA now

You think so?  Who would offer him anything close to that on the free agent market?

Miami, Houston. Teams like the Clippers and Suns could be options in a S&T

[slamtheking]

So you're right that the Sixers were going to be bad with or without Hinkie at the helm - Billy King & company had already seen to that (hence the turnover). But 'creating assets' by fielding a non-competitive team that is so blatantly trying to suck that agents won't schedule workouts with you because they're afraid their players are going to wind up in your organisation is as clear and obvious a non-starter for the job of NBA General Manager that it doesn't need to be said.


Beyond that, drafting Embiid wasn't a galaxy-brained take - in fact it was probably a disappointment for Philly. At the time they almost certainly would have taken Wiggins with the #1 pick just like everyone else (or, in a different universe, they wind up with Wiggins because Embiid doesn't break his foot and becomes a Cavalier). Was Embiid a better choice than, say, Dante Exum? Sure. But having 'the mega star' wash up on your doorstep owing to factors beyond your control isn't an illustration of your genius - we don't need to look much further than, say, Elon Musk to see that.

exactly.  Philly front office gets credit for taking Embiid with the third pick when (A) if he hadn't been injured during the college season he'd have gone first and (B) there was no one else left at that pick that had anything close to his skillset and upside.  if Philly hadn't taken him they'd have fired on the spot.

[Roy H.]

Luka Doncic on playing with Kyrie Irving: 'It's a great fit'

Grant Afseth: Luka Doncic was asked if he plans to assist the Dallas Mavericks in their efforts to re-sign Kyrie Irving in free agency. “I mean, yeah. I think it’s a great fit. Obviously, people are going to say no. I mean, I look at the results we’re having, but you know, like I said, chemistry and relationships take time. I wish he can still be here.” – via Twitter

Mavs confident about chances of keeping Kyrie Irving:

Irving’s current deal will come to an end after this season. The Mavs obviously knew this coming in when they pulled the trigger on the blockbuster trade with the Brooklyn Nets, and they were well aware of the fact that there was a significant risk of Kyrie being nothing more than a half-season rental for them. If you ask ESPN’s NBA guru Ramona Shelburne, however, she is adamant that the Mavs will be able to strike a deal with Irving this summer: “They feel really good about their chances of keeping Kyrie Irving,” Shelburne said. “When they traded for him, they had an option, obviously, to sign him for a two-year extension. He wants more than two years. … Kyrie wants four. So, it may come down to whether or not they’re willing to go to that fourth year. – via Paolo Songco @ Clutch Points

If they offer Kyrie the 4/200M, he'd be stupid not to take it and stay. But anything short, he's gone. That said, even if he signs the 4/200M he could easily just orchestrate a way out of Dallas in a year or two if things go sour again. That's just the new NBA now

You think so?  Who would offer him anything close to that on the free agent market?

Miami, Houston. Teams like the Clippers and Suns could be options in a S&T

Why, though?  Are teams completely blind to his track record?

Tying your franchise to perhaps the most toxic player in the NBA for four years seems misguided. 

[Birdman]

Why would anyone want Kyrie?

[Vermont Green]

You think so?  Who would offer him anything close to that on the free agent market?

Miami, Houston. Teams like the Clippers and Suns could be options in a S&T

If you take in a player through a sign and trade, you become hard capped.  Neither the Suns or the Clippers would be able to do a sign and trade unless they make major changes to their roster, at least I think, based on what I see on Spotrac.

I think DAL is stuck with Kyrie and Kyrie is stuck with DAL.  They will work it out.