Author Topic: NBA Season 2022-23  (Read 451427 times)

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Re: NBA Season 2022-23
« Reply #690 on: November 20, 2022, 01:13:17 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Really early, but for fun I've already made my All Star selections.

WEST
Luka Doncic (Dallas Mavericks), Stephen Curry (Golden State Warriors), Nikola Jokic (Denver Nuggets), Shai Gilgeous-Alexander (Oklahoma City Thunder), Ja Morant (Memphis Grizzlies), Devin Booker (Phoenix Suns), De'Aaron Fox (Sacramento Kings), Anthony Davis (Los Angeles Lakers), Paul George (Los Angeles Clippers), Desmond Bane (Memphis Grizzlies), Domantas Sabonis (Sacramento Kings), Lauri Markkanen (Utah Jazz)

EAST
Jayson Tatum (Boston Celtics), Joel Embiid (Philadelphia 76ers), Donovan Mitchell (Cleveland Cavaliers), Giannis Antetokounmpo (Milwaukee Bucks), Kevin Durant (Brooklyn Nets), Pascal Siakam (Toronto Raptors), Tyrese Haliburton (Indiana Pacers), James Harden (Philadelphia 76ers), Kristaps Porzingis (Washington Wizards), Jimmy Butler (Miami Heat), Brook Lopez (Milwaukee Bucks), Dejounte Murray (Atlanta Hawks)

You’re missing a guy who’s putting up 25/7 for the team with the best record in the league.

Yeah noway a top 3 team in the conference just get a single all-star when 2nd player is playing that well and healthy. I dont think anyone will put Harden and Lopez in over Brown.

I just did.

You did, and it's a major fail.
Yeah, Jaylen is deserving over about a half dozen guys in the East listed there. Heck, JB gets an All-NBA nod this year if he continues this play and the C's end up as the league's best team.

Tatum, Embiid, Mitchell, Antetokounmpo and Durant are currently above any discussion. But let's look at a bunch of stats that look past the raw numbers:

Post in progress....
The advanced stats have never loved Jaylen or shown the importance of his impact on winning for this team. So bring up all the noisy stats like box +/-, on/off +/-, VORP, etc., etc. They mean little to the people that will be putting Jaylen on the All-Star and All-NBA teams this year.

Re: NBA Season 2022-23
« Reply #691 on: November 20, 2022, 07:45:43 PM »

Offline gouki88

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Really early, but for fun I've already made my All Star selections.

WEST
Luka Doncic (Dallas Mavericks), Stephen Curry (Golden State Warriors), Nikola Jokic (Denver Nuggets), Shai Gilgeous-Alexander (Oklahoma City Thunder), Ja Morant (Memphis Grizzlies), Devin Booker (Phoenix Suns), De'Aaron Fox (Sacramento Kings), Anthony Davis (Los Angeles Lakers), Paul George (Los Angeles Clippers), Desmond Bane (Memphis Grizzlies), Domantas Sabonis (Sacramento Kings), Lauri Markkanen (Utah Jazz)

EAST

Jayson Tatum (Boston Celtics), Joel Embiid (Philadelphia 76ers), Donovan Mitchell (Cleveland Cavaliers), Giannis Antetokounmpo (Milwaukee Bucks), Kevin Durant (Brooklyn Nets), Pascal Siakam (Toronto Raptors), Tyrese Haliburton (Indiana Pacers), James Harden (Philadelphia 76ers), Kristaps Porzingis (Washington Wizards), Jimmy Butler (Miami Heat), Brook Lopez (Milwaukee Bucks), Dejounte Murray (Atlanta Hawks)

You’re missing a guy who’s putting up 25/7 for the team with the best record in the league.

Brown was close, but just isn't instrumental to the achievements of the Celtics.
Very good player. Not really a star.
Yet you have Brook Lopez, LOL
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: NBA Season 2022-23
« Reply #692 on: November 20, 2022, 07:54:56 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Really early, but for fun I've already made my All Star selections.

WEST
Luka Doncic (Dallas Mavericks), Stephen Curry (Golden State Warriors), Nikola Jokic (Denver Nuggets), Shai Gilgeous-Alexander (Oklahoma City Thunder), Ja Morant (Memphis Grizzlies), Devin Booker (Phoenix Suns), De'Aaron Fox (Sacramento Kings), Anthony Davis (Los Angeles Lakers), Paul George (Los Angeles Clippers), Desmond Bane (Memphis Grizzlies), Domantas Sabonis (Sacramento Kings), Lauri Markkanen (Utah Jazz)

EAST
Jayson Tatum (Boston Celtics), Joel Embiid (Philadelphia 76ers), Donovan Mitchell (Cleveland Cavaliers), Giannis Antetokounmpo (Milwaukee Bucks), Kevin Durant (Brooklyn Nets), Pascal Siakam (Toronto Raptors), Tyrese Haliburton (Indiana Pacers), James Harden (Philadelphia 76ers), Kristaps Porzingis (Washington Wizards), Jimmy Butler (Miami Heat), Brook Lopez (Milwaukee Bucks), Dejounte Murray (Atlanta Hawks)

You’re missing a guy who’s putting up 25/7 for the team with the best record in the league.

Yeah noway a top 3 team in the conference just get a single all-star when 2nd player is playing that well and healthy. I dont think anyone will put Harden and Lopez in over Brown.

I just did.

You did, and it's a major fail.
Yeah, Jaylen is deserving over about a half dozen guys in the East listed there. Heck, JB gets an All-NBA nod this year if he continues this play and the C's end up as the league's best team.

Tatum, Embiid, Mitchell, Antetokounmpo and Durant are currently above any discussion. But let's look at a bunch of stats that look past the raw numbers:

Post in progress....
The advanced stats have never loved Jaylen or shown the importance of his impact on winning for this team. So bring up all the noisy stats like box +/-, on/off +/-, VORP, etc., etc. They mean little to the people that will be putting Jaylen on the All-Star and All-NBA teams this year.

Nick is someone that has brook lopez making the all star team and brown not worth engaging with?

Re: NBA Season 2022-23
« Reply #693 on: November 20, 2022, 09:32:26 PM »

Offline RockinRyA

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Really early, but for fun I've already made my All Star selections.

WEST
Luka Doncic (Dallas Mavericks), Stephen Curry (Golden State Warriors), Nikola Jokic (Denver Nuggets), Shai Gilgeous-Alexander (Oklahoma City Thunder), Ja Morant (Memphis Grizzlies), Devin Booker (Phoenix Suns), De'Aaron Fox (Sacramento Kings), Anthony Davis (Los Angeles Lakers), Paul George (Los Angeles Clippers), Desmond Bane (Memphis Grizzlies), Domantas Sabonis (Sacramento Kings), Lauri Markkanen (Utah Jazz)

EAST
Jayson Tatum (Boston Celtics), Joel Embiid (Philadelphia 76ers), Donovan Mitchell (Cleveland Cavaliers), Giannis Antetokounmpo (Milwaukee Bucks), Kevin Durant (Brooklyn Nets), Pascal Siakam (Toronto Raptors), Tyrese Haliburton (Indiana Pacers), James Harden (Philadelphia 76ers), Kristaps Porzingis (Washington Wizards), Jimmy Butler (Miami Heat), Brook Lopez (Milwaukee Bucks), Dejounte Murray (Atlanta Hawks)

You’re missing a guy who’s putting up 25/7 for the team with the best record in the league.

Yeah noway a top 3 team in the conference just get a single all-star when 2nd player is playing that well and healthy. I dont think anyone will put Harden and Lopez in over Brown.

I just did.

You did, and it's a major fail.
Yeah, Jaylen is deserving over about a half dozen guys in the East listed there. Heck, JB gets an All-NBA nod this year if he continues this play and the C's end up as the league's best team.

Tatum, Embiid, Mitchell, Antetokounmpo and Durant are currently above any discussion. But let's look at a bunch of stats that look past the raw numbers:

Post in progress....
The advanced stats have never loved Jaylen or shown the importance of his impact on winning for this team. So bring up all the noisy stats like box +/-, on/off +/-, VORP, etc., etc. They mean little to the people that will be putting Jaylen on the All-Star and All-NBA teams this year.

Nick is someone that has brook lopez making the all star team and brown not worth engaging with?

Well I'd say so. Advanced stats is so noisy that it would like to tell you that we will be getting more wins if we play Luke Kornet instead of Jaylen Brown over the course of the game  ;D

Re: NBA Season 2022-23
« Reply #694 on: November 20, 2022, 09:43:49 PM »

Offline nickagneta

  • James Naismith
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  • President of Jaylen Brown Fan Club
Really early, but for fun I've already made my All Star selections.

WEST
Luka Doncic (Dallas Mavericks), Stephen Curry (Golden State Warriors), Nikola Jokic (Denver Nuggets), Shai Gilgeous-Alexander (Oklahoma City Thunder), Ja Morant (Memphis Grizzlies), Devin Booker (Phoenix Suns), De'Aaron Fox (Sacramento Kings), Anthony Davis (Los Angeles Lakers), Paul George (Los Angeles Clippers), Desmond Bane (Memphis Grizzlies), Domantas Sabonis (Sacramento Kings), Lauri Markkanen (Utah Jazz)

EAST
Jayson Tatum (Boston Celtics), Joel Embiid (Philadelphia 76ers), Donovan Mitchell (Cleveland Cavaliers), Giannis Antetokounmpo (Milwaukee Bucks), Kevin Durant (Brooklyn Nets), Pascal Siakam (Toronto Raptors), Tyrese Haliburton (Indiana Pacers), James Harden (Philadelphia 76ers), Kristaps Porzingis (Washington Wizards), Jimmy Butler (Miami Heat), Brook Lopez (Milwaukee Bucks), Dejounte Murray (Atlanta Hawks)

You’re missing a guy who’s putting up 25/7 for the team with the best record in the league.

Yeah noway a top 3 team in the conference just get a single all-star when 2nd player is playing that well and healthy. I dont think anyone will put Harden and Lopez in over Brown.

I just did.

You did, and it's a major fail.
Yeah, Jaylen is deserving over about a half dozen guys in the East listed there. Heck, JB gets an All-NBA nod this year if he continues this play and the C's end up as the league's best team.

Tatum, Embiid, Mitchell, Antetokounmpo and Durant are currently above any discussion. But let's look at a bunch of stats that look past the raw numbers:

Post in progress....
The advanced stats have never loved Jaylen or shown the importance of his impact on winning for this team. So bring up all the noisy stats like box +/-, on/off +/-, VORP, etc., etc. They mean little to the people that will be putting Jaylen on the All-Star and All-NBA teams this year.

Nick is someone that has brook lopez making the all star team and brown not worth engaging with?

Well I'd say so. Advanced stats is so noisy that it would like to tell you that we will be getting more wins if we play Luke Kornet instead of Jaylen Brown over the course of the game  ;D
Yeah, Value Over Replacement Player stats say you could replace Jaylen with just any guy and get the same results. +/- stats say you're better off as a team not playing Brown than playing him. The noise and ridiculousness of some of the advanced stats just do not match up to what is actually happening on the court in so many ways. According to some stats, Hauser is the Celtics first or second best player. Does that match the eye test?

Re: NBA Season 2022-23
« Reply #695 on: November 21, 2022, 12:41:46 AM »

Online SparzWizard

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Lakers looking pretty interesting the last 3 games. They blew out the Spurs tonight. AD with 30/18 and definitely a force when healthy. I hope we don't draw this typa Lakers team in December, but get their sloppy typa team instead


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Re: NBA Season 2022-23
« Reply #696 on: November 21, 2022, 07:26:26 AM »

Online SHAQATTACK

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Lakers looking pretty interesting the last 3 games. They blew out the Spurs tonight. AD with 30/18 and definitely a force when healthy. I hope we don't draw this typa Lakers team in December, but get their sloppy typa team instead

When things go wrong latter,  That group will point fingers at each other blame the coach get him fired . Bunch of old divas.

Re: NBA Season 2022-23
« Reply #697 on: November 21, 2022, 07:40:24 AM »

Offline CelticsWhat35

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Lakers looking pretty interesting the last 3 games. They blew out the Spurs tonight. AD with 30/18 and definitely a force when healthy. I hope we don't draw this typa Lakers team in December, but get their sloppy typa team instead

What’s interesting about beating three other bad teams in a row?

Re: NBA Season 2022-23
« Reply #698 on: November 21, 2022, 08:04:21 AM »

Offline Birdman

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Lakers looking pretty interesting the last 3 games. They blew out the Spurs tonight. AD with 30/18 and definitely a force when healthy. I hope we don't draw this typa Lakers team in December, but get their sloppy typa team instead
Beat a Net team with no Kyrie, beat bad Pistons & Spurs team.. not impressed
C/PF-Horford, Baynes, Noel, Theis, Morris,
SF/SG- Tatum, Brown, Hayward, Smart, Semi, Clark
PG- Irving, Rozier, Larkin

Re: NBA Season 2022-23
« Reply #699 on: November 21, 2022, 08:31:17 AM »

Offline Vermont Green

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Lakers looking pretty interesting the last 3 games. They blew out the Spurs tonight. AD with 30/18 and definitely a force when healthy. I hope we don't draw this typa Lakers team in December, but get their sloppy typa team instead
Beat a Net team with no Kyrie, beat bad Pistons & Spurs team.. not impressed

The main thing that these last 3 games indicate is that Anthony Davis is healthy right now.  When Anthony Davis is healthy, he is one of the top players in the game (at least that has always been the case in the past).  I don't know how long Davis will hold up but so long as he does, I would take the Lakers a little more seriously than just discounting them for beating the Spurs (without LeBron).  In the end, Davis may not hold up.  It has been several seasons since he has played anything close to a full season.  And without a healthy Davis, I am not that worried about the Lakers.

People seem to jump on the idea that the Lakers are dysfunctional and all that.  There is obviously some truth to that.  But I predict that if Davis is healthy, and LeBron is healthy (two big IFs), that the Lakers will become a whole lot more functional very quickly.  Westbrook, LeBron, and Davis played only 21 games together last season.  That is 61 games where one or more were injured and/or banged up, not 100%.  The Lakers may not ever be "healthy", I just think this dysfunction will go away quickly if they do get healthy.

Re: NBA Season 2022-23
« Reply #700 on: November 21, 2022, 12:54:07 PM »

Offline bello_man09

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Lakers looking pretty interesting the last 3 games. They blew out the Spurs tonight. AD with 30/18 and definitely a force when healthy. I hope we don't draw this typa Lakers team in December, but get their sloppy typa team instead
Beat a Net team with no Kyrie, beat bad Pistons & Spurs team.. not impressed

Schdule has been soft as cake- but they have blown spurs and Pistons out. I thought those games where going to be close.

Re: NBA Season 2022-23
« Reply #701 on: November 21, 2022, 01:13:26 PM »

Offline Ed Monix

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Eastern All-Stars, determined by RPR MVP score:

STARTERS

Donovan Mitchell
Dejounte Murray
Jayson Tatum
Kevin Durant
Joel Embiid

BENCH

Trae Young
Tyrese Haliburton
Giannis Antetokounmpo
Jimmy Butler
Jaylen Brown
Kristaps Porzingis
DeMar DeRozan

ALTERNATE

Jalen Brunson

—————————

Source: NBA Maths
5' 10" former point guard

Career highlight: 1973-74 championship, Boston Celtics

Career lowlight: traded for a washing machine

Re: NBA Season 2022-23
« Reply #702 on: November 21, 2022, 01:15:56 PM »

Offline Ed Monix

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Western All-Stars, determined by RPR MVP score:

STARTERS

Luka Doncic
Stephen Curry
Lauri Markkanen
Anthony Davis
Nikola Jokic

BENCH

Shai Gilgeous-Alexander
Devin Booker
Karl-Anthony Towns
Domantas Sabonis
Mikal Bridges
Ja Morant
De'Aaron Fox

ALTERNATE

Paul George
5' 10" former point guard

Career highlight: 1973-74 championship, Boston Celtics

Career lowlight: traded for a washing machine

Re: NBA Season 2022-23
« Reply #703 on: November 21, 2022, 01:43:48 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Lakers looking pretty interesting the last 3 games. They blew out the Spurs tonight. AD with 30/18 and definitely a force when healthy. I hope we don't draw this typa Lakers team in December, but get their sloppy typa team instead
Beat a Net team with no Kyrie, beat bad Pistons & Spurs team.. not impressed

The main thing that these last 3 games indicate is that Anthony Davis is healthy right now.  When Anthony Davis is healthy, he is one of the top players in the game (at least that has always been the case in the past).  I don't know how long Davis will hold up but so long as he does, I would take the Lakers a little more seriously than just discounting them for beating the Spurs (without LeBron).  In the end, Davis may not hold up.  It has been several seasons since he has played anything close to a full season.  And without a healthy Davis, I am not that worried about the Lakers.

People seem to jump on the idea that the Lakers are dysfunctional and all that.  There is obviously some truth to that.  But I predict that if Davis is healthy, and LeBron is healthy (two big IFs), that the Lakers will become a whole lot more functional very quickly.  Westbrook, LeBron, and Davis played only 21 games together last season.  That is 61 games where one or more were injured and/or banged up, not 100%.  The Lakers may not ever be "healthy", I just think this dysfunction will go away quickly if they do get healthy.

Will Lebron take a backseat to Davis when he returns? That’s what need to happen. The lakers stopped going to Davis especially in the second half as Lebron shot up inefficient jumpers and chased the scoring record. He needs to play a lot differently when he comes back.

Re: NBA Season 2022-23
« Reply #704 on: November 21, 2022, 01:52:06 PM »

Offline Moranis

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Really early, but for fun I've already made my All Star selections.

WEST
Luka Doncic (Dallas Mavericks), Stephen Curry (Golden State Warriors), Nikola Jokic (Denver Nuggets), Shai Gilgeous-Alexander (Oklahoma City Thunder), Ja Morant (Memphis Grizzlies), Devin Booker (Phoenix Suns), De'Aaron Fox (Sacramento Kings), Anthony Davis (Los Angeles Lakers), Paul George (Los Angeles Clippers), Desmond Bane (Memphis Grizzlies), Domantas Sabonis (Sacramento Kings), Lauri Markkanen (Utah Jazz)

EAST
Jayson Tatum (Boston Celtics), Joel Embiid (Philadelphia 76ers), Donovan Mitchell (Cleveland Cavaliers), Giannis Antetokounmpo (Milwaukee Bucks), Kevin Durant (Brooklyn Nets), Pascal Siakam (Toronto Raptors), Tyrese Haliburton (Indiana Pacers), James Harden (Philadelphia 76ers), Kristaps Porzingis (Washington Wizards), Jimmy Butler (Miami Heat), Brook Lopez (Milwaukee Bucks), Dejounte Murray (Atlanta Hawks)

You’re missing a guy who’s putting up 25/7 for the team with the best record in the league.

Yeah noway a top 3 team in the conference just get a single all-star when 2nd player is playing that well and healthy. I dont think anyone will put Harden and Lopez in over Brown.

I just did.

You did, and it's a major fail.
Yeah, Jaylen is deserving over about a half dozen guys in the East listed there. Heck, JB gets an All-NBA nod this year if he continues this play and the C's end up as the league's best team.

Tatum, Embiid, Mitchell, Antetokounmpo and Durant are currently above any discussion. But let's look at a bunch of stats that look past the raw numbers:

Post in progress....
The advanced stats have never loved Jaylen or shown the importance of his impact on winning for this team. So bring up all the noisy stats like box +/-, on/off +/-, VORP, etc., etc. They mean little to the people that will be putting Jaylen on the All-Star and All-NBA teams this year.

Nick is someone that has brook lopez making the all star team and brown not worth engaging with?

Well I'd say so. Advanced stats is so noisy that it would like to tell you that we will be getting more wins if we play Luke Kornet instead of Jaylen Brown over the course of the game  ;D
Yeah, Value Over Replacement Player stats say you could replace Jaylen with just any guy and get the same results. +/- stats say you're better off as a team not playing Brown than playing him. The noise and ridiculousness of some of the advanced stats just do not match up to what is actually happening on the court in so many ways. According to some stats, Hauser is the Celtics first or second best player. Does that match the eye test?
Or maybe the eye test doesn't actually match value to the scoreboard.  the simple reality is, Jaylen doesn't really impact Boston in the standings.  It takes nothing away from him as a player to say he just doesn't move the needle for this team.  On a different team, he may very well be the most impactful player on the standings of that team.  He missed a game this year and Boston won that one, continuing what has been a trend since he entered the league.  Boston is worse without Brown, but not nearly as much as you would think for someone that is a top 25 player in the sport.

Year - Record w/ Brown, Record w/o Brown
2022 - 43-23, 8-8 (he missed 14 of the first 27 games, Boston was 6-7 with him and 7-7 without him)
2021 - 30-28, 6-8
2020 - 38-19, 10-5
2019 - 41-33, 8-0
2018 - 47-23, 8-4

As I mentioned, thus far this year, Brown missed a game and Boston won that one, so 1-0 this year (but it was Detroit so doesn't mean much).

The simple reality is some players just aren't all that important to the actual success of the team, no matter how good they are or how good their stats look.  We saw that first hand here with Kyrie Irving, when I made similar arguments (and was correct then as well).  We saw that in Memphis last year with Ja Morant. 

I've also shown the stats throughout the years here, that Tatum just plays better when Brown misses games.  He not only ups his totals, but his efficiency.  They aren't a great a fit because they both function at their best when they operate at the same points on the floor.  And since Tatum is pretty clearly the driver or engine of Boston's success, the fact that he plays better without Brown, is why Boston doesn't fade all that much when Brown doesn't even play.  It is why Brown has consistently had a negative on/off differential.  The only real stretch where that wasn't the case, was the last few months last year.  I had hoped that would be the start of something, but alas thus far this year they've gone back into their normal routine.  Boston is 13-3 so obviously a change won't, and shouldn't, be made, but I wouldn't be opposed to moving Brown in the right trade (which is why I was ok with him being the centerpiece of a Durant trade over the summer).  His off court issues only strengthen that point.  Again, when a team is winning like Boston is, you can't really trade a starter or even main rotation piece, but I do wonder if some of this is borrowed time.
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