NBA Season 2022-23

[nickagneta]

Ben Simmons so far this season is averaging 6 points and 6 rebounds a game lol.

This guy is definitely a bust. Bad attitude, no goal to improve, very sensitive to any criticism. Great trade Nets! He goes along perfectly with Kyrie

I don’t think he really likes basketball. If you look at his Instagram it is just pictures of him walking into the stadium in different outfits. I think he just wanted to be a celebrity and play video games. Except most NBA players work very and if you are not trying to improve you are going to just get worse over time. It appears that is what has happened.

I think his confidence is shot. He’s basically tall Markelle Fultz. Simmons used to play great D and that isn’t a thing anymore. I hope no one bails the Nets out with a trade.

He is probably one of the least tradable players in the NBA. In addition to his performance issues right now, and his injury questions he is owed 115 million between this year and the next two years. I think that is probably the worst contract in the nba right now.

Gordon Hayward has another year left after this, doesn’t he?  I’d still sign up for the Simmons experience before Gordon given their respective contracts.

I could see someone considering it if their contracts were equal. However hayward is an expiring next year while simmons is owed 40 million the following year. That is a really big difference in terms of how bad their contracts are.

Sure, but despite what I’ve said about Simmons in this thread, if I’m paying that kind of money for the next two years or more years, I’d rather take the chance that maybe I could be the team to revitalize him, and thus reap the reward.  I would have no such hope that I could be the team that could keep Hayward healthy.

You really think the small market hornets already trying to cut salary in rozier and hayward are gonna take on 40 extra million two years from now to try and hope they can work a miracle on a guy with a bad back that doesn’t like basketball? That would be the most surprising trade to me of the last 20 years.

That's not what I said, or at least what I meant.  I meant Ben Simmons is easier to trade than Hayward, because more teams would take a chance on Simmons than they would Hayward because Simmons still offers the allure of potential greatness, whereas Hayward doesn't, and ceiling is valued in the NBA.  As a counter to what you said, I don't think the Nets would trade Simmons for Hayward, so it would be surprising from both sides.

For example, suppose that the Lakers have an offer for Westbrook-Simmons (plus some additional matching salary) and Westbrook-Hayward (for some additional matching salary).  No picks required.  The Lakers are going to take Simmons in that hypothetical, not Hayward.

I completely disagree with this. The lakers have been very adamant about not wanting to take on additional salary beyond this year in all their talks (with the caveat of a true difference maker they would). There is no way in heck they would take on 80 million dollars of simmons after this year and hope for a miracle in the final two years of lebrons time and the end of Davis’ prime. I’m also a little bit surprised about the viewpoint that simmons has untapped potential. For one, Ben Simmons is not that young at all in terms of prospect terms. He turns 27 this Summer and has a bad back which doesn’t exactly scream aging well. I do think there is a chance his defense comes back. But it would be completely historical in terms of nba player development for him to all of a sudden become a completely different offensive player in his 8th or 9th year in the league. Has anyone done that? You add in that he hasn’t improved at all his first 6 seasons in nba and it seems completely absurd to me.

The only one I can think of off the top of my head is Brook Lopez.

I was actually thinking of him adding the three point shot in my head when I was asking this. However it seems quite a bit different to me cause brook was already a 20 point scorer for about 5 seasons that then added that to his game. Which is different than a complete non-scorer all of a sudden becoming an offensive player.

Kyle Lowry seems a good example

That’s a really good example Nick. Tp. Had totally forgotten how long it took him to develop.

Here's the thing though, Lowry and Simmons have two completely different mental makeups. If Lowry had Simmons' physical ability, Lowry would probably have been a top three player in the league. Lowry loves the game and wanted nothing more to be great at it. Simmons.....not so much.

So, I think any team thinking they could turn around Simmons and turn him into a star would need to have a delusional GM. Therefore, maybe Charlotte will be the team the Nets move him to.

[gouki88]

Ben Simmons so far this season is averaging 6 points and 6 rebounds a game lol.

This guy is definitely a bust. Bad attitude, no goal to improve, very sensitive to any criticism. Great trade Nets! He goes along perfectly with Kyrie

Joel Embiid scored 59 points against the Utah Jazz. Ben Simmons has scored 58 points this season, in 10 games.

Remember when some 6ers fans were agonising about who to build around?

[Moranis]

There is a big difference between Simmons reverting back to what he was i.e. a 16/8/8 type player with versatile 1st Team All Defense verse Simmons morphing into an offensive juggernaut.  The elite defender with 16/8/8 type stats is incredibly valuable and clearly has a place in the league even if he doesn't shoot well (or that often).  The 6/6/6 player with mediocre defense and a 35 million a year salary that he currently is, is the problem.  If he can basically just go back to Philly level Simmons though, that guy has a place in the league and value to teams.

[gouki88]

Ben Simmons so far this season is averaging 6 points and 6 rebounds a game lol.

This guy is definitely a bust. Bad attitude, no goal to improve, very sensitive to any criticism. Great trade Nets! He goes along perfectly with Kyrie

I don’t think he really likes basketball. If you look at his Instagram it is just pictures of him walking into the stadium in different outfits. I think he just wanted to be a celebrity and play video games. Except most NBA players work very and if you are not trying to improve you are going to just get worse over time. It appears that is what has happened.

I think his confidence is shot. He’s basically tall Markelle Fultz. Simmons used to play great D and that isn’t a thing anymore. I hope no one bails the Nets out with a trade.

He is probably one of the least tradable players in the NBA. In addition to his performance issues right now, and his injury questions he is owed 115 million between this year and the next two years. I think that is probably the worst contract in the nba right now.

Gordon Hayward has another year left after this, doesn’t he?  I’d still sign up for the Simmons experience before Gordon given their respective contracts.

I could see someone considering it if their contracts were equal. However hayward is an expiring next year while simmons is owed 40 million the following year. That is a really big difference in terms of how bad their contracts are.

Sure, but despite what I’ve said about Simmons in this thread, if I’m paying that kind of money for the next two years or more years, I’d rather take the chance that maybe I could be the team to revitalize him, and thus reap the reward.  I would have no such hope that I could be the team that could keep Hayward healthy.

You really think the small market hornets already trying to cut salary in rozier and hayward are gonna take on 40 extra million two years from now to try and hope they can work a miracle on a guy with a bad back that doesn’t like basketball? That would be the most surprising trade to me of the last 20 years.

That's not what I said, or at least what I meant.  I meant Ben Simmons is easier to trade than Hayward, because more teams would take a chance on Simmons than they would Hayward because Simmons still offers the allure of potential greatness, whereas Hayward doesn't, and ceiling is valued in the NBA.  As a counter to what you said, I don't think the Nets would trade Simmons for Hayward, so it would be surprising from both sides.

For example, suppose that the Lakers have an offer for Westbrook-Simmons (plus some additional matching salary) and Westbrook-Hayward (for some additional matching salary).  No picks required.  The Lakers are going to take Simmons in that hypothetical, not Hayward.

I completely disagree with this. The lakers have been very adamant about not wanting to take on additional salary beyond this year in all their talks (with the caveat of a true difference maker they would). There is no way in heck they would take on 80 million dollars of simmons after this year and hope for a miracle in the final two years of lebrons time and the end of Davis’ prime. I’m also a little bit surprised about the viewpoint that simmons has untapped potential. For one, Ben Simmons is not that young at all in terms of prospect terms. He turns 27 this Summer and has a bad back which doesn’t exactly scream aging well. I do think there is a chance his defense comes back. But it would be completely historical in terms of nba player development for him to all of a sudden become a completely different offensive player in his 8th or 9th year in the league. Has anyone done that? You add in that he hasn’t improved at all his first 6 seasons in nba and it seems completely absurd to me.

The only one I can think of off the top of my head is Brook Lopez.

I was actually thinking of him adding the three point shot in my head when I was asking this. However it seems quite a bit different to me cause brook was already a 20 point scorer for about 5 seasons that then added that to his game. Which is different than a complete non-scorer all of a sudden becoming an offensive player.

Kyle Lowry seems a good example

Lowry is a good example, but at least he was a good FT shooter and still took jumpshots, even when he was bad at it. Simmons is 5/35 from deep over his career, and is a sub-60% FT shooter. Now he has even lost his ability to drive, score inside and draw fouls. He looks broken

[celticsclay]

There is a big difference between Simmons reverting back to what he was i.e. a 16/8/8 type player with versatile 1st Team All Defense verse Simmons morphing into an offensive juggernaut.  The elite defender with 16/8/8 type stats is incredibly valuable and clearly has a place in the league even if he doesn't shoot well (or that often).  The 6/6/6 player with mediocre defense and a 35 million a year salary that he currently is, is the problem.  If he can basically just go back to Philly level Simmons though, that guy has a place in the league and value to teams.

I agree there is value in if he reverts back to his Philly numbers especially getting back his defense. However I don’t think that is worth 40 million dollars either, the 76ers were definitely hoping for further development when they gave him that contract at 24. The other thing is that he was getting a considerable amount of his points in his Philly career on just absolutely freak athleticism being a freight train for dunks in the open court. After this contract nearing 30 I don’t think that is something that will be coming back. Especially for a guy with a bad back.

[Phantom255x]

LOL the Nets literally held a players-only meeting to talk about Ben Simmons 

That should really tell you all you need to know

https://theathletic.com/3903140/2022/11/16/nets-ben-simmons-players-only-meeting/#:~:text=The%20Brooklyn%20Nets%20held%20a,about%20it%2C%20tell%20The%20Athletic.

[celticsclay]

LOL the Nets literally held a players-only meeting to talk about Ben Simmons 

That should really tell you all you need to know

https://theathletic.com/3903140/2022/11/16/nets-ben-simmons-players-only-meeting/#:~:text=The%20Brooklyn%20Nets%20held%20a,about%20it%2C%20tell%20The%20Athletic.

Wow this seems screwed up, especially whoever leaked it. It’s also kind of a bold move to make simmons come off the bench so early knowing how fragile he is. But you do have to do it eventually if he is playing this poorly.

[SHAQATTACK]

LOL the Nets literally held a players-only meeting to talk about Ben Simmons 

That should really tell you all you need to know

https://theathletic.com/3903140/2022/11/16/nets-ben-simmons-players-only-meeting/#:~:text=The%20Brooklyn%20Nets%20held%20a,about%20it%2C%20tell%20The%20Athletic.

Wow this seems screwed up, especially whoever leaked it. It’s also kind of a bold move to make simmons come off the bench so early knowing how fragile he is. But you do have to do it eventually if he is playing this poorly.

He was a quitter from birth
He should be jailed for all the money he has taken from dumb GM ‘s wishing he was something …..Doc knew better but couldn’t hold back …

[nickagneta]

LOL the Nets literally held a players-only meeting to talk about Ben Simmons 

That should really tell you all you need to know

https://theathletic.com/3903140/2022/11/16/nets-ben-simmons-players-only-meeting/#:~:text=The%20Brooklyn%20Nets%20held%20a,about%20it%2C%20tell%20The%20Athletic.

Wow this seems screwed up, especially whoever leaked it. It’s also kind of a bold move to make simmons come off the bench so early knowing how fragile he is. But you do have to do it eventually if he is playing this poorly.

He was a quitter from birth
He should be jailed for all the money he has taken from dumb GM ‘s wishing he was something …..Doc knew better but couldn’t hold back …

Doc didn't sign him to any contract.

[Goldstar88]

Good game between Phoenix and Golden State…

Booker is cooking Thompson.

[SparzWizard]

Curry's 50-point night wasn't enough to stop the Phoenix Suns

[celticsclay]

LOL the Nets literally held a players-only meeting to talk about Ben Simmons 

That should really tell you all you need to know

https://theathletic.com/3903140/2022/11/16/nets-ben-simmons-players-only-meeting/#:~:text=The%20Brooklyn%20Nets%20held%20a,about%20it%2C%20tell%20The%20Athletic.

Wow this seems screwed up, especially whoever leaked it. It’s also kind of a bold move to make simmons come off the bench so early knowing how fragile he is. But you do have to do it eventually if he is playing this poorly.

He was a quitter from birth
He should be jailed for all the money he has taken from dumb GM ‘s wishing he was something …..Doc knew better but couldn’t hold back …

Doc didn't sign him to any contract.

Doc definitely coddled him to an extreme point. Would openly
Attack the media when they asked about him willing to take open jumpers. I do think there is a chance his career is a lot different if both Brett brown and doc rivers hadn’t been so scared of benching or criticizing him. If Udoka was his coach and benching him the third year of his rookie contract and he is risking that max extension I think there is a chance he puts in some work.

[tazzmaniac]

LOL the Nets literally held a players-only meeting to talk about Ben Simmons 

That should really tell you all you need to know

https://theathletic.com/3903140/2022/11/16/nets-ben-simmons-players-only-meeting/#:~:text=The%20Brooklyn%20Nets%20held%20a,about%20it%2C%20tell%20The%20Athletic.

Wow this seems screwed up, especially whoever leaked it. It’s also kind of a bold move to make simmons come off the bench so early knowing how fragile he is. But you do have to do it eventually if he is playing this poorly.

He was a quitter from birth
He should be jailed for all the money he has taken from dumb GM ‘s wishing he was something …..Doc knew better but couldn’t hold back …

Doc didn't sign him to any contract.

Doc definitely coddled him to an extreme point. Would openly
Attack the media when they asked about him willing to take open jumpers. I do think there is a chance his career is a lot different if both Brett brown and doc rivers hadn’t been so scared of benching or criticizing him. If Udoka was his coach and benching him the third year of his rookie contract and he is risking that max extension I think there is a chance he puts in some work.

Simmons certainly put in work.  He made vast improvement on defense over what he did in college.  He spent plenty of time trying to learn how to be a PG.  Simmons 3rd year of his contract was his 2nd season playing.  He averaged 16.9pts, 8.8reb and 7.7ast.   No coach was going to bench him.  No coach was going to get him to shoot the ball more.   

[JSD]

Cavs and Jazz both freefalling. Early season narratives are falling apart

[Roy H.]

I guess we'll get a test of how reliable Jake Fischer is:

Jake Fischer: Word is the Suns appeared close to finalizing a three-team trade involving Jae Crowder prior tip-off tonight against Golden State. – via Twitter JakeLFischer