NBA Season 2022-23

[slamtheking]

Ben Simmons so far this season is averaging 6 points and 6 rebounds a game lol.

This guy is definitely a bust. Bad attitude, no goal to improve, very sensitive to any criticism. Great trade Nets! He goes along perfectly with Kyrie

I don’t think he really likes basketball. If you look at his Instagram it is just pictures of him walking into the stadium in different outfits. I think he just wanted to be a celebrity and play video games. Except most NBA players work very and if you are not trying to improve you are going to just get worse over time. It appears that is what has happened.

I agree.  I don't think he likes it. In that sense, I feel for him.  He's talented at it, and is doing it because he's supposed to.  But he clearly doesn't work on his game -- he was the same player at the end of his fifth season as he was his one year of college.  We've seen how much work Tatum and Brown put in every offseason to keep adding to their games.  He doesn't.  And now it's year 7, and he's still the same player, but has also taken a year off and has had injuries, and now that innate ability might not be enough.

I wouldn't be surprised if he's on his last contract.  He's got his money -- it's time for him to go do what he wants with his life.

I seem to recall that was a concern expressed during his one college season leading up to the draft where he was projected as the first pick.  a lot of talent but not a lot of fire or desire to play the game. 

[Celtics2021]

Ben Simmons so far this season is averaging 6 points and 6 rebounds a game lol.

This guy is definitely a bust. Bad attitude, no goal to improve, very sensitive to any criticism. Great trade Nets! He goes along perfectly with Kyrie

I don’t think he really likes basketball. If you look at his Instagram it is just pictures of him walking into the stadium in different outfits. I think he just wanted to be a celebrity and play video games. Except most NBA players work very and if you are not trying to improve you are going to just get worse over time. It appears that is what has happened.

I agree.  I don't think he likes it. In that sense, I feel for him.  He's talented at it, and is doing it because he's supposed to.  But he clearly doesn't work on his game -- he was the same player at the end of his fifth season as he was his one year of college.  We've seen how much work Tatum and Brown put in every offseason to keep adding to their games.  He doesn't.  And now it's year 7, and he's still the same player, but has also taken a year off and has had injuries, and now that innate ability might not be enough.

I wouldn't be surprised if he's on his last contract.  He's got his money -- it's time for him to go do what he wants with his life.

I seem to recall that was a concern expressed during his one college season leading up to the draft where he was projected as the first pick.  a lot of talent but not a lot of fire or desire to play the game.

Yep.  It was tough to tell if he didn’t care about basketball, or just didn’t like that he had to go play in college for a year prior to the NBA.  Obviously the Sixers bet on it being the latter (as any other team would have), but the answer was more probably “both.”

[celticsclay]

Ben Simmons so far this season is averaging 6 points and 6 rebounds a game lol.

This guy is definitely a bust. Bad attitude, no goal to improve, very sensitive to any criticism. Great trade Nets! He goes along perfectly with Kyrie

I don’t think he really likes basketball. If you look at his Instagram it is just pictures of him walking into the stadium in different outfits. I think he just wanted to be a celebrity and play video games. Except most NBA players work very and if you are not trying to improve you are going to just get worse over time. It appears that is what has happened.

I think his confidence is shot. He’s basically tall Markelle Fultz. Simmons used to play great D and that isn’t a thing anymore. I hope no one bails the Nets out with a trade.

He is probably one of the least tradable players in the NBA. In addition to his performance issues right now, and his injury questions he is owed 115 million between this year and the next two years. I think that is probably the worst contract in the nba right now.

[Celtics2021]

Ben Simmons so far this season is averaging 6 points and 6 rebounds a game lol.

This guy is definitely a bust. Bad attitude, no goal to improve, very sensitive to any criticism. Great trade Nets! He goes along perfectly with Kyrie

I don’t think he really likes basketball. If you look at his Instagram it is just pictures of him walking into the stadium in different outfits. I think he just wanted to be a celebrity and play video games. Except most NBA players work very and if you are not trying to improve you are going to just get worse over time. It appears that is what has happened.

I think his confidence is shot. He’s basically tall Markelle Fultz. Simmons used to play great D and that isn’t a thing anymore. I hope no one bails the Nets out with a trade.

He is probably one of the least tradable players in the NBA. In addition to his performance issues right now, and his injury questions he is owed 115 million between this year and the next two years. I think that is probably the worst contract in the nba right now.

Gordon Hayward has another year left after this, doesn’t he?  I’d still sign up for the Simmons experience before Gordon given their respective contracts.

[celticsclay]

Ben Simmons so far this season is averaging 6 points and 6 rebounds a game lol.

This guy is definitely a bust. Bad attitude, no goal to improve, very sensitive to any criticism. Great trade Nets! He goes along perfectly with Kyrie

I don’t think he really likes basketball. If you look at his Instagram it is just pictures of him walking into the stadium in different outfits. I think he just wanted to be a celebrity and play video games. Except most NBA players work very and if you are not trying to improve you are going to just get worse over time. It appears that is what has happened.

I think his confidence is shot. He’s basically tall Markelle Fultz. Simmons used to play great D and that isn’t a thing anymore. I hope no one bails the Nets out with a trade.

He is probably one of the least tradable players in the NBA. In addition to his performance issues right now, and his injury questions he is owed 115 million between this year and the next two years. I think that is probably the worst contract in the nba right now.

Gordon Hayward has another year left after this, doesn’t he?  I’d still sign up for the Simmons experience before Gordon given their respective contracts.

I could see someone considering it if their contracts were equal. However hayward is an expiring next year while simmons is owed 40 million the following year. That is a really big difference in terms of how bad their contracts are.

[Celtics2021]

Ben Simmons so far this season is averaging 6 points and 6 rebounds a game lol.

This guy is definitely a bust. Bad attitude, no goal to improve, very sensitive to any criticism. Great trade Nets! He goes along perfectly with Kyrie

I don’t think he really likes basketball. If you look at his Instagram it is just pictures of him walking into the stadium in different outfits. I think he just wanted to be a celebrity and play video games. Except most NBA players work very and if you are not trying to improve you are going to just get worse over time. It appears that is what has happened.

I think his confidence is shot. He’s basically tall Markelle Fultz. Simmons used to play great D and that isn’t a thing anymore. I hope no one bails the Nets out with a trade.

He is probably one of the least tradable players in the NBA. In addition to his performance issues right now, and his injury questions he is owed 115 million between this year and the next two years. I think that is probably the worst contract in the nba right now.

Gordon Hayward has another year left after this, doesn’t he?  I’d still sign up for the Simmons experience before Gordon given their respective contracts.

I could see someone considering it if their contracts were equal. However hayward is an expiring next year while simmons is owed 40 million the following year. That is a really big difference in terms of how bad their contracts are.

Sure, but despite what I’ve said about Simmons in this thread, if I’m paying that kind of money for the next two years or more years, I’d rather take the chance that maybe I could be the team to revitalize him, and thus reap the reward.  I would have no such hope that I could be the team that could keep Hayward healthy.

[celticsclay]

Ben Simmons so far this season is averaging 6 points and 6 rebounds a game lol.

This guy is definitely a bust. Bad attitude, no goal to improve, very sensitive to any criticism. Great trade Nets! He goes along perfectly with Kyrie

I don’t think he really likes basketball. If you look at his Instagram it is just pictures of him walking into the stadium in different outfits. I think he just wanted to be a celebrity and play video games. Except most NBA players work very and if you are not trying to improve you are going to just get worse over time. It appears that is what has happened.

I think his confidence is shot. He’s basically tall Markelle Fultz. Simmons used to play great D and that isn’t a thing anymore. I hope no one bails the Nets out with a trade.

He is probably one of the least tradable players in the NBA. In addition to his performance issues right now, and his injury questions he is owed 115 million between this year and the next two years. I think that is probably the worst contract in the nba right now.

Gordon Hayward has another year left after this, doesn’t he?  I’d still sign up for the Simmons experience before Gordon given their respective contracts.

I could see someone considering it if their contracts were equal. However hayward is an expiring next year while simmons is owed 40 million the following year. That is a really big difference in terms of how bad their contracts are.

Sure, but despite what I’ve said about Simmons in this thread, if I’m paying that kind of money for the next two years or more years, I’d rather take the chance that maybe I could be the team to revitalize him, and thus reap the reward.  I would have no such hope that I could be the team that could keep Hayward healthy.

You really think the small market hornets already trying to cut salary in rozier and hayward are gonna take on 40 extra million two years from now to try and hope they can work a miracle on a guy with a bad back that doesn’t like basketball? That would be the most surprising trade to me of the last 20 years.

[Birdman]

What team would take on Irving Or Simmons headache case? No way I would want them on my team

[Celtics2021]

Ben Simmons so far this season is averaging 6 points and 6 rebounds a game lol.

This guy is definitely a bust. Bad attitude, no goal to improve, very sensitive to any criticism. Great trade Nets! He goes along perfectly with Kyrie

I don’t think he really likes basketball. If you look at his Instagram it is just pictures of him walking into the stadium in different outfits. I think he just wanted to be a celebrity and play video games. Except most NBA players work very and if you are not trying to improve you are going to just get worse over time. It appears that is what has happened.

I think his confidence is shot. He’s basically tall Markelle Fultz. Simmons used to play great D and that isn’t a thing anymore. I hope no one bails the Nets out with a trade.

He is probably one of the least tradable players in the NBA. In addition to his performance issues right now, and his injury questions he is owed 115 million between this year and the next two years. I think that is probably the worst contract in the nba right now.

Gordon Hayward has another year left after this, doesn’t he?  I’d still sign up for the Simmons experience before Gordon given their respective contracts.

I could see someone considering it if their contracts were equal. However hayward is an expiring next year while simmons is owed 40 million the following year. That is a really big difference in terms of how bad their contracts are.

Sure, but despite what I’ve said about Simmons in this thread, if I’m paying that kind of money for the next two years or more years, I’d rather take the chance that maybe I could be the team to revitalize him, and thus reap the reward.  I would have no such hope that I could be the team that could keep Hayward healthy.

You really think the small market hornets already trying to cut salary in rozier and hayward are gonna take on 40 extra million two years from now to try and hope they can work a miracle on a guy with a bad back that doesn’t like basketball? That would be the most surprising trade to me of the last 20 years.

That's not what I said, or at least what I meant.  I meant Ben Simmons is easier to trade than Hayward, because more teams would take a chance on Simmons than they would Hayward because Simmons still offers the allure of potential greatness, whereas Hayward doesn't, and ceiling is valued in the NBA.  As a counter to what you said, I don't think the Nets would trade Simmons for Hayward, so it would be surprising from both sides.

For example, suppose that the Lakers have an offer for Westbrook-Simmons (plus some additional matching salary) and Westbrook-Hayward (for some additional matching salary).  No picks required.  The Lakers are going to take Simmons in that hypothetical, not Hayward.

[celticsclay]

Ben Simmons so far this season is averaging 6 points and 6 rebounds a game lol.

This guy is definitely a bust. Bad attitude, no goal to improve, very sensitive to any criticism. Great trade Nets! He goes along perfectly with Kyrie

I don’t think he really likes basketball. If you look at his Instagram it is just pictures of him walking into the stadium in different outfits. I think he just wanted to be a celebrity and play video games. Except most NBA players work very and if you are not trying to improve you are going to just get worse over time. It appears that is what has happened.

I think his confidence is shot. He’s basically tall Markelle Fultz. Simmons used to play great D and that isn’t a thing anymore. I hope no one bails the Nets out with a trade.

He is probably one of the least tradable players in the NBA. In addition to his performance issues right now, and his injury questions he is owed 115 million between this year and the next two years. I think that is probably the worst contract in the nba right now.

Gordon Hayward has another year left after this, doesn’t he?  I’d still sign up for the Simmons experience before Gordon given their respective contracts.

I could see someone considering it if their contracts were equal. However hayward is an expiring next year while simmons is owed 40 million the following year. That is a really big difference in terms of how bad their contracts are.

Sure, but despite what I’ve said about Simmons in this thread, if I’m paying that kind of money for the next two years or more years, I’d rather take the chance that maybe I could be the team to revitalize him, and thus reap the reward.  I would have no such hope that I could be the team that could keep Hayward healthy.

You really think the small market hornets already trying to cut salary in rozier and hayward are gonna take on 40 extra million two years from now to try and hope they can work a miracle on a guy with a bad back that doesn’t like basketball? That would be the most surprising trade to me of the last 20 years.

That's not what I said, or at least what I meant.  I meant Ben Simmons is easier to trade than Hayward, because more teams would take a chance on Simmons than they would Hayward because Simmons still offers the allure of potential greatness, whereas Hayward doesn't, and ceiling is valued in the NBA.  As a counter to what you said, I don't think the Nets would trade Simmons for Hayward, so it would be surprising from both sides.

For example, suppose that the Lakers have an offer for Westbrook-Simmons (plus some additional matching salary) and Westbrook-Hayward (for some additional matching salary).  No picks required.  The Lakers are going to take Simmons in that hypothetical, not Hayward.

I completely disagree with this. The lakers have been very adamant about not wanting to take on additional salary beyond this year in all their talks (with the caveat of a true difference maker they would). There is no way in heck they would take on 80 million dollars of simmons after this year and hope for a miracle in the final two years of lebrons time and the end of Davis’ prime. I’m also a little bit surprised about the viewpoint that simmons has untapped potential. For one, Ben Simmons is not that young at all in terms of prospect terms. He turns 27 this Summer and has a bad back which doesn’t exactly scream aging well. I do think there is a chance his defense comes back. But it would be completely historical in terms of nba player development for him to all of a sudden become a completely different offensive player in his 8th or 9th year in the league. Has anyone done that? You add in that he hasn’t improved at all his first 6 seasons in nba and it seems completely absurd to me.

[celticsclay]

What team would take on Irving Or Simmons headache case? No way I would want them on my team

The lakers were the only team interested in kyrie over the summer and are reportedly not interested in him any more.

[liam]

Ben Simmons so far this season is averaging 6 points and 6 rebounds a game lol.

This guy is definitely a bust. Bad attitude, no goal to improve, very sensitive to any criticism. Great trade Nets! He goes along perfectly with Kyrie

I don’t think he really likes basketball. If you look at his Instagram it is just pictures of him walking into the stadium in different outfits. I think he just wanted to be a celebrity and play video games. Except most NBA players work very and if you are not trying to improve you are going to just get worse over time. It appears that is what has happened.

I think his confidence is shot. He’s basically tall Markelle Fultz. Simmons used to play great D and that isn’t a thing anymore. I hope no one bails the Nets out with a trade.

He is probably one of the least tradable players in the NBA. In addition to his performance issues right now, and his injury questions he is owed 115 million between this year and the next two years. I think that is probably the worst contract in the nba right now.

Gordon Hayward has another year left after this, doesn’t he?  I’d still sign up for the Simmons experience before Gordon given their respective contracts.

I could see someone considering it if their contracts were equal. However hayward is an expiring next year while simmons is owed 40 million the following year. That is a really big difference in terms of how bad their contracts are.

Sure, but despite what I’ve said about Simmons in this thread, if I’m paying that kind of money for the next two years or more years, I’d rather take the chance that maybe I could be the team to revitalize him, and thus reap the reward.  I would have no such hope that I could be the team that could keep Hayward healthy.

You really think the small market hornets already trying to cut salary in rozier and hayward are gonna take on 40 extra million two years from now to try and hope they can work a miracle on a guy with a bad back that doesn’t like basketball? That would be the most surprising trade to me of the last 20 years.

That's not what I said, or at least what I meant.  I meant Ben Simmons is easier to trade than Hayward, because more teams would take a chance on Simmons than they would Hayward because Simmons still offers the allure of potential greatness, whereas Hayward doesn't, and ceiling is valued in the NBA.  As a counter to what you said, I don't think the Nets would trade Simmons for Hayward, so it would be surprising from both sides.

For example, suppose that the Lakers have an offer for Westbrook-Simmons (plus some additional matching salary) and Westbrook-Hayward (for some additional matching salary).  No picks required.  The Lakers are going to take Simmons in that hypothetical, not Hayward.

I completely disagree with this. The lakers have been very adamant about not wanting to take on additional salary beyond this year in all their talks (with the caveat of a true difference maker they would). There is no way in heck they would take on 80 million dollars of simmons after this year and hope for a miracle in the final two years of lebrons time and the end of Davis’ prime. I’m also a little bit surprised about the viewpoint that simmons has untapped potential. For one, Ben Simmons is not that young at all in terms of prospect terms. He turns 27 this Summer and has a bad back which doesn’t exactly scream aging well. I do think there is a chance his defense comes back. But it would be completely historical in terms of nba player development for him to all of a sudden become a completely different offensive player in his 8th or 9th year in the league. Has anyone done that? You add in that he hasn’t improved at all his first 6 seasons in nba and it seems completely absurd to me.

The only one I can think of off the top of my head is Brook Lopez.

[celticsclay]

Ben Simmons so far this season is averaging 6 points and 6 rebounds a game lol.

This guy is definitely a bust. Bad attitude, no goal to improve, very sensitive to any criticism. Great trade Nets! He goes along perfectly with Kyrie

I don’t think he really likes basketball. If you look at his Instagram it is just pictures of him walking into the stadium in different outfits. I think he just wanted to be a celebrity and play video games. Except most NBA players work very and if you are not trying to improve you are going to just get worse over time. It appears that is what has happened.

I think his confidence is shot. He’s basically tall Markelle Fultz. Simmons used to play great D and that isn’t a thing anymore. I hope no one bails the Nets out with a trade.

He is probably one of the least tradable players in the NBA. In addition to his performance issues right now, and his injury questions he is owed 115 million between this year and the next two years. I think that is probably the worst contract in the nba right now.

Gordon Hayward has another year left after this, doesn’t he?  I’d still sign up for the Simmons experience before Gordon given their respective contracts.

I could see someone considering it if their contracts were equal. However hayward is an expiring next year while simmons is owed 40 million the following year. That is a really big difference in terms of how bad their contracts are.

Sure, but despite what I’ve said about Simmons in this thread, if I’m paying that kind of money for the next two years or more years, I’d rather take the chance that maybe I could be the team to revitalize him, and thus reap the reward.  I would have no such hope that I could be the team that could keep Hayward healthy.

You really think the small market hornets already trying to cut salary in rozier and hayward are gonna take on 40 extra million two years from now to try and hope they can work a miracle on a guy with a bad back that doesn’t like basketball? That would be the most surprising trade to me of the last 20 years.

That's not what I said, or at least what I meant.  I meant Ben Simmons is easier to trade than Hayward, because more teams would take a chance on Simmons than they would Hayward because Simmons still offers the allure of potential greatness, whereas Hayward doesn't, and ceiling is valued in the NBA.  As a counter to what you said, I don't think the Nets would trade Simmons for Hayward, so it would be surprising from both sides.

For example, suppose that the Lakers have an offer for Westbrook-Simmons (plus some additional matching salary) and Westbrook-Hayward (for some additional matching salary).  No picks required.  The Lakers are going to take Simmons in that hypothetical, not Hayward.

I completely disagree with this. The lakers have been very adamant about not wanting to take on additional salary beyond this year in all their talks (with the caveat of a true difference maker they would). There is no way in heck they would take on 80 million dollars of simmons after this year and hope for a miracle in the final two years of lebrons time and the end of Davis’ prime. I’m also a little bit surprised about the viewpoint that simmons has untapped potential. For one, Ben Simmons is not that young at all in terms of prospect terms. He turns 27 this Summer and has a bad back which doesn’t exactly scream aging well. I do think there is a chance his defense comes back. But it would be completely historical in terms of nba player development for him to all of a sudden become a completely different offensive player in his 8th or 9th year in the league. Has anyone done that? You add in that he hasn’t improved at all his first 6 seasons in nba and it seems completely absurd to me.

The only one I can think of off the top of my head is Brook Lopez.

I was actually thinking of him adding the three point shot in my head when I was asking this. However it seems quite a bit different to me cause brook was already a 20 point scorer for about 5 seasons that then added that to his game. Which is different than a complete non-scorer all of a sudden becoming an offensive player.

[nickagneta]

Ben Simmons so far this season is averaging 6 points and 6 rebounds a game lol.

This guy is definitely a bust. Bad attitude, no goal to improve, very sensitive to any criticism. Great trade Nets! He goes along perfectly with Kyrie

I don’t think he really likes basketball. If you look at his Instagram it is just pictures of him walking into the stadium in different outfits. I think he just wanted to be a celebrity and play video games. Except most NBA players work very and if you are not trying to improve you are going to just get worse over time. It appears that is what has happened.

I think his confidence is shot. He’s basically tall Markelle Fultz. Simmons used to play great D and that isn’t a thing anymore. I hope no one bails the Nets out with a trade.

He is probably one of the least tradable players in the NBA. In addition to his performance issues right now, and his injury questions he is owed 115 million between this year and the next two years. I think that is probably the worst contract in the nba right now.

Gordon Hayward has another year left after this, doesn’t he?  I’d still sign up for the Simmons experience before Gordon given their respective contracts.

I could see someone considering it if their contracts were equal. However hayward is an expiring next year while simmons is owed 40 million the following year. That is a really big difference in terms of how bad their contracts are.

Sure, but despite what I’ve said about Simmons in this thread, if I’m paying that kind of money for the next two years or more years, I’d rather take the chance that maybe I could be the team to revitalize him, and thus reap the reward.  I would have no such hope that I could be the team that could keep Hayward healthy.

You really think the small market hornets already trying to cut salary in rozier and hayward are gonna take on 40 extra million two years from now to try and hope they can work a miracle on a guy with a bad back that doesn’t like basketball? That would be the most surprising trade to me of the last 20 years.

That's not what I said, or at least what I meant.  I meant Ben Simmons is easier to trade than Hayward, because more teams would take a chance on Simmons than they would Hayward because Simmons still offers the allure of potential greatness, whereas Hayward doesn't, and ceiling is valued in the NBA.  As a counter to what you said, I don't think the Nets would trade Simmons for Hayward, so it would be surprising from both sides.

For example, suppose that the Lakers have an offer for Westbrook-Simmons (plus some additional matching salary) and Westbrook-Hayward (for some additional matching salary).  No picks required.  The Lakers are going to take Simmons in that hypothetical, not Hayward.

I completely disagree with this. The lakers have been very adamant about not wanting to take on additional salary beyond this year in all their talks (with the caveat of a true difference maker they would). There is no way in heck they would take on 80 million dollars of simmons after this year and hope for a miracle in the final two years of lebrons time and the end of Davis’ prime. I’m also a little bit surprised about the viewpoint that simmons has untapped potential. For one, Ben Simmons is not that young at all in terms of prospect terms. He turns 27 this Summer and has a bad back which doesn’t exactly scream aging well. I do think there is a chance his defense comes back. But it would be completely historical in terms of nba player development for him to all of a sudden become a completely different offensive player in his 8th or 9th year in the league. Has anyone done that? You add in that he hasn’t improved at all his first 6 seasons in nba and it seems completely absurd to me.

The only one I can think of off the top of my head is Brook Lopez.

I was actually thinking of him adding the three point shot in my head when I was asking this. However it seems quite a bit different to me cause brook was already a 20 point scorer for about 5 seasons that then added that to his game. Which is different than a complete non-scorer all of a sudden becoming an offensive player.

Kyle Lowry seems a good example

[celticsclay]

Ben Simmons so far this season is averaging 6 points and 6 rebounds a game lol.

This guy is definitely a bust. Bad attitude, no goal to improve, very sensitive to any criticism. Great trade Nets! He goes along perfectly with Kyrie

I don’t think he really likes basketball. If you look at his Instagram it is just pictures of him walking into the stadium in different outfits. I think he just wanted to be a celebrity and play video games. Except most NBA players work very and if you are not trying to improve you are going to just get worse over time. It appears that is what has happened.

I think his confidence is shot. He’s basically tall Markelle Fultz. Simmons used to play great D and that isn’t a thing anymore. I hope no one bails the Nets out with a trade.

He is probably one of the least tradable players in the NBA. In addition to his performance issues right now, and his injury questions he is owed 115 million between this year and the next two years. I think that is probably the worst contract in the nba right now.

Gordon Hayward has another year left after this, doesn’t he?  I’d still sign up for the Simmons experience before Gordon given their respective contracts.

I could see someone considering it if their contracts were equal. However hayward is an expiring next year while simmons is owed 40 million the following year. That is a really big difference in terms of how bad their contracts are.

Sure, but despite what I’ve said about Simmons in this thread, if I’m paying that kind of money for the next two years or more years, I’d rather take the chance that maybe I could be the team to revitalize him, and thus reap the reward.  I would have no such hope that I could be the team that could keep Hayward healthy.

You really think the small market hornets already trying to cut salary in rozier and hayward are gonna take on 40 extra million two years from now to try and hope they can work a miracle on a guy with a bad back that doesn’t like basketball? That would be the most surprising trade to me of the last 20 years.

That's not what I said, or at least what I meant.  I meant Ben Simmons is easier to trade than Hayward, because more teams would take a chance on Simmons than they would Hayward because Simmons still offers the allure of potential greatness, whereas Hayward doesn't, and ceiling is valued in the NBA.  As a counter to what you said, I don't think the Nets would trade Simmons for Hayward, so it would be surprising from both sides.

For example, suppose that the Lakers have an offer for Westbrook-Simmons (plus some additional matching salary) and Westbrook-Hayward (for some additional matching salary).  No picks required.  The Lakers are going to take Simmons in that hypothetical, not Hayward.

I completely disagree with this. The lakers have been very adamant about not wanting to take on additional salary beyond this year in all their talks (with the caveat of a true difference maker they would). There is no way in heck they would take on 80 million dollars of simmons after this year and hope for a miracle in the final two years of lebrons time and the end of Davis’ prime. I’m also a little bit surprised about the viewpoint that simmons has untapped potential. For one, Ben Simmons is not that young at all in terms of prospect terms. He turns 27 this Summer and has a bad back which doesn’t exactly scream aging well. I do think there is a chance his defense comes back. But it would be completely historical in terms of nba player development for him to all of a sudden become a completely different offensive player in his 8th or 9th year in the league. Has anyone done that? You add in that he hasn’t improved at all his first 6 seasons in nba and it seems completely absurd to me.

The only one I can think of off the top of my head is Brook Lopez.

I was actually thinking of him adding the three point shot in my head when I was asking this. However it seems quite a bit different to me cause brook was already a 20 point scorer for about 5 seasons that then added that to his game. Which is different than a complete non-scorer all of a sudden becoming an offensive player.

Kyle Lowry seems a good example

That’s a really good example Nick. Tp. Had totally forgotten how long it took him to develop.