NBA Season 2022-23

[Moranis]

Mitchell might very well be the front runner for MVP right now.  Cavs are 5-1 and entering today he was averaging 31 p, 6.4 a, 4.8 r and is darn near a 50/40/90 shooter.  And of course today he only goes for 38 p, 12 a, 3 r shooting 60% from the field overall and 61.5% from 3.

So far for me the 4 standouts have been Spida, Giannis, Tatum & Doncic.

I wouldn't have Doncic there yet.  Mavs haven't been good enough at 2-3 and actually have been a lot better per 100 possessions with him on the bench.  Doncic has a -9.1 on/off differential per 100 possessions.  He is a poor defender and so ball dominant, that the Mavs often play better when he is on the bench.  Even last year his on/off differential was just a +0.2.  He obviously isn't just an empty stats guy, but to be as ball dominant as he is, you have to be a more complete player.  Guys like Lebron (in his prime), Giannis, etc. are just so much better defenders and just have a better knack for knowing when they need to take over and when to back off.  Doncic hasn't figured that out yet. 

[gouki88]

Mitchell might very well be the front runner for MVP right now.  Cavs are 5-1 and entering today he was averaging 31 p, 6.4 a, 4.8 r and is darn near a 50/40/90 shooter.  And of course today he only goes for 38 p, 12 a, 3 r shooting 60% from the field overall and 61.5% from 3.

So far for me the 4 standouts have been Spida, Giannis, Tatum & Doncic.

I wouldn't have Doncic there yet.  Mavs haven't been good enough at 2-3 and actually have been a lot better per 100 possessions with him on the bench.  Doncic has a -9.1 on/off differential per 100 possessions.  He is a poor defender and so ball dominant, that the Mavs often play better when he is on the bench.  Even last year his on/off differential was just a +0.2.  He obviously isn't just an empty stats guy, but to be as ball dominant as he is, you have to be a more complete player.  Guys like Lebron (in his prime), Giannis, etc. are just so much better defenders and just have a better knack for knowing when they need to take over and when to back off.  Doncic hasn't figured that out yet.

I understand the criticism, but it has no bearing on MVP voting (see Harden)

[hpantazo]

So, are teams like the Heat and Nets secretly tanking for Wembanyama? We know the Lakers aren't, they just plain suck as they don't have their pick, but you gotta wonder about some of the other teams.

[gouki88]

So, are teams like the Heat and Nets secretly tanking for Wembanyama? We know the Lakers aren't, they just plain suck as they don't have their pick, but you gotta wonder about some of the other teams.

The Heat underestimated how cooked some of their guys have become, and the Nets were never going to be good. Simmons is trash and stuffs up their ability to pursue others, and Kyrie is a sieve on D.

[Moranis]

Mitchell might very well be the front runner for MVP right now.  Cavs are 5-1 and entering today he was averaging 31 p, 6.4 a, 4.8 r and is darn near a 50/40/90 shooter.  And of course today he only goes for 38 p, 12 a, 3 r shooting 60% from the field overall and 61.5% from 3.

So far for me the 4 standouts have been Spida, Giannis, Tatum & Doncic.

I wouldn't have Doncic there yet.  Mavs haven't been good enough at 2-3 and actually have been a lot better per 100 possessions with him on the bench.  Doncic has a -9.1 on/off differential per 100 possessions.  He is a poor defender and so ball dominant, that the Mavs often play better when he is on the bench.  Even last year his on/off differential was just a +0.2.  He obviously isn't just an empty stats guy, but to be as ball dominant as he is, you have to be a more complete player.  Guys like Lebron (in his prime), Giannis, etc. are just so much better defenders and just have a better knack for knowing when they need to take over and when to back off.  Doncic hasn't figured that out yet.

I understand the criticism, but it has no bearing on MVP voting (see Harden)

The year Harden won the MVP, his on/off differential per 100 possessions was +5.3.  Now that is lower than most MVP's, but it is good.  And that was one of his lower seasons in Houston. 

[gouki88]

Mitchell might very well be the front runner for MVP right now.  Cavs are 5-1 and entering today he was averaging 31 p, 6.4 a, 4.8 r and is darn near a 50/40/90 shooter.  And of course today he only goes for 38 p, 12 a, 3 r shooting 60% from the field overall and 61.5% from 3.

So far for me the 4 standouts have been Spida, Giannis, Tatum & Doncic.

I wouldn't have Doncic there yet.  Mavs haven't been good enough at 2-3 and actually have been a lot better per 100 possessions with him on the bench.  Doncic has a -9.1 on/off differential per 100 possessions.  He is a poor defender and so ball dominant, that the Mavs often play better when he is on the bench.  Even last year his on/off differential was just a +0.2.  He obviously isn't just an empty stats guy, but to be as ball dominant as he is, you have to be a more complete player.  Guys like Lebron (in his prime), Giannis, etc. are just so much better defenders and just have a better knack for knowing when they need to take over and when to back off.  Doncic hasn't figured that out yet.

I understand the criticism, but it has no bearing on MVP voting (see Harden)

The year Harden won the MVP, his on/off differential per 100 possessions was +5.3.  Now that is lower than most MVP's, but it is good.  And that was one of his lower seasons in Houston.

Your reliance on on/off has led you to poor takes before, and is doing so again. His BPM is off the charts, for example.

[SparzWizard]

Awwww winless no more as the Lakers take down the Nuggets for their first win in october. Davis with a 23/15 night for a guy who has all kinds of injuries.

[Moranis]

Mitchell might very well be the front runner for MVP right now.  Cavs are 5-1 and entering today he was averaging 31 p, 6.4 a, 4.8 r and is darn near a 50/40/90 shooter.  And of course today he only goes for 38 p, 12 a, 3 r shooting 60% from the field overall and 61.5% from 3.

So far for me the 4 standouts have been Spida, Giannis, Tatum & Doncic.

I wouldn't have Doncic there yet.  Mavs haven't been good enough at 2-3 and actually have been a lot better per 100 possessions with him on the bench.  Doncic has a -9.1 on/off differential per 100 possessions.  He is a poor defender and so ball dominant, that the Mavs often play better when he is on the bench.  Even last year his on/off differential was just a +0.2.  He obviously isn't just an empty stats guy, but to be as ball dominant as he is, you have to be a more complete player.  Guys like Lebron (in his prime), Giannis, etc. are just so much better defenders and just have a better knack for knowing when they need to take over and when to back off.  Doncic hasn't figured that out yet.

I understand the criticism, but it has no bearing on MVP voting (see Harden)

The year Harden won the MVP, his on/off differential per 100 possessions was +5.3.  Now that is lower than most MVP's, but it is good.  And that was one of his lower seasons in Houston.

Your reliance on on/off has led you to poor takes before, and is doing so again. His BPM is off the charts, for example.

I have found pretty consistently that on/off differential is the greatest measure of value to the only thing that actually matters i.e. the scoreboard.  Given the MVP has the word valuable in its name, there is no greater single measure to use than on/off differential.  If your team plays well with you and poorly without you, that is in fact a great measure of your actual value.  Now obviously you have to account for other factors like how many wins your team has, your actual stats, etc., but when you are talking about guys that all have good stats and almost always are on good teams, you need to differentiate them somehow and if you look historically, there really isn't a better measure to use.

The simple truth is, the Mavericks thus far this year are better when Doncic is on the bench.  That just can't happen with a MVP.  Now who knows how it will ultimately end up with Doncic.  Maybe he gets up near +10 (which is generally where the best of the best reside) and the Mavericks end up as a 50+ win team and it is all moot, or maybe the same thing happens this year that happened last year and the year before and the year before. 

[The Oracle]

Mitchell might very well be the front runner for MVP right now.  Cavs are 5-1 and entering today he was averaging 31 p, 6.4 a, 4.8 r and is darn near a 50/40/90 shooter.  And of course today he only goes for 38 p, 12 a, 3 r shooting 60% from the field overall and 61.5% from 3.

So far for me the 4 standouts have been Spida, Giannis, Tatum & Doncic.

I wouldn't have Doncic there yet.  Mavs haven't been good enough at 2-3 and actually have been a lot better per 100 possessions with him on the bench.  Doncic has a -9.1 on/off differential per 100 possessions.  He is a poor defender and so ball dominant, that the Mavs often play better when he is on the bench.  Even last year his on/off differential was just a +0.2.  He obviously isn't just an empty stats guy, but to be as ball dominant as he is, you have to be a more complete player.  Guys like Lebron (in his prime), Giannis, etc. are just so much better defenders and just have a better knack for knowing when they need to take over and when to back off.  Doncic hasn't figured that out yet.

I understand the criticism, but it has no bearing on MVP voting (see Harden)

The year Harden won the MVP, his on/off differential per 100 possessions was +5.3.  Now that is lower than most MVP's, but it is good.  And that was one of his lower seasons in Houston.

Your reliance on on/off has led you to poor takes before, and is doing so again. His BPM is off the charts, for example.

I have found pretty consistently that on/off differential is the greatest measure of value to the only thing that actually matters i.e. the scoreboard.  Given the MVP has the word valuable in its name, there is no greater single measure to use than on/off differential.  If your team plays well with you and poorly without you, that is in fact a great measure of your actual value.  Now obviously you have to account for other factors like how many wins your team has, your actual stats, etc., but when you are talking about guys that all have good stats and almost always are on good teams, you need to differentiate them somehow and if you look historically, there really isn't a better measure to use.

The simple truth is, the Mavericks thus far this year are better when Doncic is on the bench.  That just can't happen with a MVP.  Now who knows how it will ultimately end up with Doncic.  Maybe he gets up near +10 (which is generally where the best of the best reside) and the Mavericks end up as a 50+ win team and it is all moot, or maybe the same thing happens this year that happened last year and the year before and the year before.

So because Dallas has a quality bench and therefor performs quite well in the few minutes it plays each game when Doncic is not on the floor, you conclude that he is somehow overrated.  Whereas if say Dallas had Detroit's incompetent bench you would conclude he is much better?  That is not sound logic at all.

[Moranis]

Mitchell might very well be the front runner for MVP right now.  Cavs are 5-1 and entering today he was averaging 31 p, 6.4 a, 4.8 r and is darn near a 50/40/90 shooter.  And of course today he only goes for 38 p, 12 a, 3 r shooting 60% from the field overall and 61.5% from 3.

So far for me the 4 standouts have been Spida, Giannis, Tatum & Doncic.

I wouldn't have Doncic there yet.  Mavs haven't been good enough at 2-3 and actually have been a lot better per 100 possessions with him on the bench.  Doncic has a -9.1 on/off differential per 100 possessions.  He is a poor defender and so ball dominant, that the Mavs often play better when he is on the bench.  Even last year his on/off differential was just a +0.2.  He obviously isn't just an empty stats guy, but to be as ball dominant as he is, you have to be a more complete player.  Guys like Lebron (in his prime), Giannis, etc. are just so much better defenders and just have a better knack for knowing when they need to take over and when to back off.  Doncic hasn't figured that out yet.

I understand the criticism, but it has no bearing on MVP voting (see Harden)

The year Harden won the MVP, his on/off differential per 100 possessions was +5.3.  Now that is lower than most MVP's, but it is good.  And that was one of his lower seasons in Houston.

Your reliance on on/off has led you to poor takes before, and is doing so again. His BPM is off the charts, for example.

I have found pretty consistently that on/off differential is the greatest measure of value to the only thing that actually matters i.e. the scoreboard.  Given the MVP has the word valuable in its name, there is no greater single measure to use than on/off differential.  If your team plays well with you and poorly without you, that is in fact a great measure of your actual value.  Now obviously you have to account for other factors like how many wins your team has, your actual stats, etc., but when you are talking about guys that all have good stats and almost always are on good teams, you need to differentiate them somehow and if you look historically, there really isn't a better measure to use.

The simple truth is, the Mavericks thus far this year are better when Doncic is on the bench.  That just can't happen with a MVP.  Now who knows how it will ultimately end up with Doncic.  Maybe he gets up near +10 (which is generally where the best of the best reside) and the Mavericks end up as a 50+ win team and it is all moot, or maybe the same thing happens this year that happened last year and the year before and the year before.

So because Dallas has a quality bench and therefor performs quite well in the few minutes it plays each game when Doncic is not on the floor, you conclude that he is somehow overrated.  Whereas if say Dallas had Detroit's incompetent bench you would conclude he is much better?  That is not sound logic at all.

Right, so of all the great players that truly impact winning, Luka is the only one that it works this way for.  So I'm sure since Jordan Poole is backing up Steph Curry, he must have a poor on/off per 100, nope +25.7.  The Bucks and their quality bench over the years, nope Giannis elite level on/off, same with Lebron, same with Durant, same with Jokic, same with Embiid, and same with Tatum last year (+13.7).  The history supports the position I'm taking.  Dallas would obviously be worse long term without Doncic, but they did go 2-1 in the playoffs last year without him.  Also, if Christian Wood makes that much difference, that also isn't a selling point for Doncic as a MVP, if anything it is a selling point for Wood.

[Donoghus]

For those who wait to the last minute with costumes.

[Goldstar88]

Myles Turner argues why the Lakers should trade for him

As the Lakers started the season 0-5 before finally getting their first win Sunday night against the Denver Nuggets, speculation over a potential trade for Turner and Hield has grown even more intense. ESPN’s Adrian Wojnarowski had Turner on his podcast on Monday and straight up asked him if the Lakers should trade two first round picks to acquire himself and Hield. “If I’m the Lakers, I take a very hard look at this with the position that you’re in,” Turner said. “I know what I can provide for a team.”

“It’s such an intriguing question,” Turner says. “I think personally when you look at this business of the league and look at the landscape of the league, you have to go off your future — we all know picks are so valuable in this league — and someone like myself, I’m going into the last year of my deal and you want to make sure you’re getting a return for your assets. If I’m the Lakers, I take a very hard look at this with the position that you’re in. I know what I can provide a team — my leadership, my shot-blocking, my three-point ability, and just my ability to make plays out there on the floor. And I’d take a very long look at it, but as far as pulling the trigger, I get paid to shoot not to make these calls so I can’t answer that.” – via Robby Kalland @ Uproxx

[Kernewek]

Imagine actively looking at a team like the Lakers and thinking "yes, this is a place I want to work."

[radiohead]

How will Indiana react to this? Do they stand firm with the 2 picks in return?

[Donoghus]

How will Indiana react to this? Do they stand firm with the 2 picks in return?

I certainly would.