NBA Season 2022-23

[td450]

Jokic is unbelievable

He truly is. Definitely underappreciated. In the alltime ranking of centers he should be really high.

#1 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
#2 Wilt Chamberlain
#3 Bill Russell
#4 Shaquille O'Neal
#5 Nikola Jokic
#6 David Robinson
#7 Hakeem Olajuwon
#8 Moses Malone
#9 Patrick Ewing
#10 Joel Embiid

It is one thing to claim that Bill Russell played in the pre-modern era, and that you can't compare him to Jordan or LeBron.

But to put another player from the same era ahead of him? How do you do that?

[Jvalin]

Jokic is unbelievable

He truly is. Definitely underappreciated. In the alltime ranking of centers he should be really high.

#1 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
#2 Wilt Chamberlain
#3 Bill Russell
#4 Shaquille O'Neal
#5 Nikola Jokic
#6 David Robinson
#7 Hakeem Olajuwon
#8 Moses Malone
#9 Patrick Ewing
#10 Joel Embiid

It is one thing to claim that Bill Russell played in the pre-modern era, and that you can't compare him to Jordan or LeBron.

But to put another player from the same era ahead of him? How do you do that?

Wilt was hands down a better scoring option. Russ was hands down a better team player. Can't go wrong with either one of them. It's not like he picked a scrub over Russ. My bigger issue with Rody's list is he put Robinson over Hakeem, but again, Robinson was a terrific player in his own right. I also consider Embiid a better player than both Moses and Ewing (although he's nowhere near them in terms of longevity). Agreed that Jokic is ridiculously good. The way I see it, he's definitely in the top 6. If he wins a ring while being the first option, I think he'll belong in the same tier with Russ/Wilt/Kareem/Shaq/Hakeem. Talent-wise, he's already there in my book.

[Ed Monix]

Aaron Gordon with a contender for dunk of the season, in Denver’s overtime win against Phoenix.

[hpantazo]

Aaron Gordon with a contender for dunk of the season, in Denver’s overtime win against Phoenix.

It's impressive athleticism, BUT, how was this not a charge?

[libermaniac]

Aaron Gordon with a contender for dunk of the season, in Denver’s overtime win against Phoenix.

It's impressive athleticism, BUT, how was this not a charge?

The defender moved a little bit to try to draw the foul. Wasn’t quite set. Hard to tell from that replay but I was watching and it seemed like a good call.

[hpantazo]

The Nets are blowing out the Cavs and about to pass them in the standings tonight. TJ Warren also looks like he's rounding back into his pre-injury self.

[Moranis]

Jokic is putting up incredible numbers, no question, but his team doesn't really win all that much.  At this point he seems more like an Oscar Robertson type player.  Which is obviously a surefire no doubt HOFer, but not a guy that people consider one of the true all time greats.  Can he at least make the Finals before we go crowning him as a top 10 center ever?  I'd have a hard time putting him in the top 10 at the center position. He seems pretty clearly behind Kareem, Wilt, Bill, Hakeem, Shaq, Moses, Mikan, Robinson so that is at best 9th.  Given his short career so far, I think I'd have Walton and Ewing ahead of him as well.  And that counts Duncan as a PF and not a center, as TD would clearly be ahead of him if he was a center.  I'd even listen to arguments for McAdoo.  And before anyone gets to crazy, McAdoo's 2nd year he lead the league in PPG (his 1st of 3 straight) and finished 3rd in rpg and bpg, all while leading the league in FG%.  The next year he was the MVP finishing in the top 4 in all 3 of those stats.  He like Jokic didn't win much early on with the big stats, but he did pick up 2 titles with the Lakers coming off the bench.

Jokic certainly has the potential to go down as a top 5 center all time, but I'd like to see him translate his individual performance into more team success before crowning him the second coming.  Denver has started off this year well, let's see if they can actually finish.

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

I’m not as impressed with Jokic as many others are — his passing is really good and he’s efficient inside, but he’s not a great 3pt shooter or a great defender. I definitely don’t see him as being in the same class as Russell, Wilt, Kareem, Olajuwon, Robinson in terms of overall impact.

[ChillyWilly]

Aaron Gordon with a contender for dunk of the season, in Denver’s overtime win against Phoenix.

It's impressive athleticism, BUT, how was this not a charge?

it was called a charge but still impressive.

[Goldstar88]

Nets are starting to figure things out, winning 9 out of the last 10 games. TJ Warren is coming into form as well. Not good.

[Roy H.]

Jokic is putting up incredible numbers, no question, but his team doesn't really win all that much.  At this point he seems more like an Oscar Robertson type player.  Which is obviously a surefire no doubt HOFer, but not a guy that people consider one of the true all time greats.  Can he at least make the Finals before we go crowning him as a top 10 center ever?  I'd have a hard time putting him in the top 10 at the center position. He seems pretty clearly behind Kareem, Wilt, Bill, Hakeem, Shaq, Moses, Mikan, Robinson so that is at best 9th.  Given his short career so far, I think I'd have Walton and Ewing ahead of him as well.  And that counts Duncan as a PF and not a center, as TD would clearly be ahead of him if he was a center.  I'd even listen to arguments for McAdoo.  And before anyone gets to crazy, McAdoo's 2nd year he lead the league in PPG (his 1st of 3 straight) and finished 3rd in rpg and bpg, all while leading the league in FG%.  The next year he was the MVP finishing in the top 4 in all 3 of those stats.  He like Jokic didn't win much early on with the big stats, but he did pick up 2 titles with the Lakers coming off the bench.

Jokic certainly has the potential to go down as a top 5 center all time, but I'd like to see him translate his individual performance into more team success before crowning him the second coming.  Denver has started off this year well, let's see if they can actually finish.

How do you evaluate the on-court / off-court numbers here?  Denver's point differential is fantastic with Jokic in the game; can we really fault him for Denver being awful when he sits?

[td450]

Jokic is putting up incredible numbers, no question, but his team doesn't really win all that much.  At this point he seems more like an Oscar Robertson type player.  Which is obviously a surefire no doubt HOFer, but not a guy that people consider one of the true all time greats.  Can he at least make the Finals before we go crowning him as a top 10 center ever?  I'd have a hard time putting him in the top 10 at the center position. He seems pretty clearly behind Kareem, Wilt, Bill, Hakeem, Shaq, Moses, Mikan, Robinson so that is at best 9th.  Given his short career so far, I think I'd have Walton and Ewing ahead of him as well.  And that counts Duncan as a PF and not a center, as TD would clearly be ahead of him if he was a center.  I'd even listen to arguments for McAdoo.  And before anyone gets to crazy, McAdoo's 2nd year he lead the league in PPG (his 1st of 3 straight) and finished 3rd in rpg and bpg, all while leading the league in FG%.  The next year he was the MVP finishing in the top 4 in all 3 of those stats.  He like Jokic didn't win much early on with the big stats, but he did pick up 2 titles with the Lakers coming off the bench.

Jokic certainly has the potential to go down as a top 5 center all time, but I'd like to see him translate his individual performance into more team success before crowning him the second coming.  Denver has started off this year well, let's see if they can actually finish.

Denver lost big betting on Jamal Murray and Michael Porter Jr. as their core. I don't think he's been on a good enough team to say whether he can win it all.

[Moranis]

Jokic is putting up incredible numbers, no question, but his team doesn't really win all that much.  At this point he seems more like an Oscar Robertson type player.  Which is obviously a surefire no doubt HOFer, but not a guy that people consider one of the true all time greats.  Can he at least make the Finals before we go crowning him as a top 10 center ever?  I'd have a hard time putting him in the top 10 at the center position. He seems pretty clearly behind Kareem, Wilt, Bill, Hakeem, Shaq, Moses, Mikan, Robinson so that is at best 9th.  Given his short career so far, I think I'd have Walton and Ewing ahead of him as well.  And that counts Duncan as a PF and not a center, as TD would clearly be ahead of him if he was a center.  I'd even listen to arguments for McAdoo.  And before anyone gets to crazy, McAdoo's 2nd year he lead the league in PPG (his 1st of 3 straight) and finished 3rd in rpg and bpg, all while leading the league in FG%.  The next year he was the MVP finishing in the top 4 in all 3 of those stats.  He like Jokic didn't win much early on with the big stats, but he did pick up 2 titles with the Lakers coming off the bench.

Jokic certainly has the potential to go down as a top 5 center all time, but I'd like to see him translate his individual performance into more team success before crowning him the second coming.  Denver has started off this year well, let's see if they can actually finish.

How do you evaluate the on-court / off-court numbers here?  Denver's point differential is fantastic with Jokic in the game; can we really fault him for Denver being awful when he sits?

Playoffs last year, Jokic's on/off differential per 100 possessions was -16.5.  Playoffs in 2021, Jokic's on/off differential per 100 possessions was -8.1.  Playoffs in 2020 (when Denver made the WCF), Jokic's on/off differential per 100 possessions was -3.0 (Murray was +10.2 and Porter was +14.6).  And with him on the court, Denver was negative in all 3 seasons per 100 possessions.  For a guy that is as good as he is supposed to be, those numbers are utterly unacceptable.  So while I recognize Jokic has crazy good on/off differential in the regular season, he doesn't in the playoffs and that is where it really matters. 

Jokic needs to actually lead Denver on a deep run and he needs to not have Denver be worse with him in the game in the process.

[Vermont Green]

Nets are starting to figure things out, winning 9 out of the last 10 games. TJ Warren is coming into form as well. Not good.

As a couple have said, Warren is a nice piece to add to a team that is already playing well.  I think we can still beat the Nets but it appears they are going to be a contender, despite all the drama.  They need a good vet big.

PHI has also come on, winning 8 straight I think.  And I don't feel as though Harden has really gotten it fully together (he may not ever).  Plus Maxey has been out roughly 6 weeks.  PHI had a lot of changes, I expected a bumpy period as they learn to play together.  They are still figuring it out.

[radiohead]

Nets are starting to figure things out, winning 9 out of the last 10 games. TJ Warren is coming into form as well. Not good.

As a couple have said, Warren is a nice piece to add to a team that is already playing well.  I think we can still beat the Nets but it appears they are going to be a contender, despite all the drama.  They need a good vet big.

PHI has also come on, winning 8 straight I think.  And I don't feel as though Harden has really gotten it fully together (he may not ever).  Plus Maxey has been out roughly 6 weeks.  PHI had a lot of changes, I expected a bumpy period as they learn to play together.  They are still figuring it out.

The East is a dogfight for sure.