Don’t Do It, Brad

[GreenlyGreeny]

Seeing some major assumptions happening here, as well as negative feelings about Jaylen being projected into false realities.

So let me look at it from a different point of view.

This is old news. It is being linked from Brooklyn. Yes, Brad called to see what the Nets wanted for KD and when Brad heard JB, the conversation went dark. Brooklyn sees Brown as their best target in a KD trade,so is leaking the story now while trying to make it sound recent, in order to push Brad back to the bargaining table.

Brown's "likes" on tweets is trolling because he has a weird sense of humor and his "SMH" tweet is because he knows the Nets leaked the story and not Brad because Brad told him week's ago about his discussions with the Nets and Brad assured him he will be a Celtic for life if that's what he wants

Makes as much sense as any other scenario out there that people are making assumptions about what's happening right now.

So if you are the Celtics management, why not come out and say that JB is untouchable then? like the team has said regarding Tatum in the past. I would love for you to be right on this one, Nick.

All-NBA 1st team players in their mid 20s are untouchable. Dudes who do not always make the all-star team—who’ve only made the all-star game once in 6 seasons—are not untouchable.

[Celtics2021]

https://heavy.com/sports/boston-celtics/kevin-durant-brooklyn-nets-trade/

Interesting note from Steve Bulpett and the heavy with some push back on whether Brown was actually offered in a deal.

Was There Really a Celtics Offer for Durant?
In the Celtics’ case, The Athletic has reported that Jaylen Brown, who turns 26 in October, Derrick White and a first round pick were offered. One source disputed that to Heavy, but the question of offers and counter-offers often comes down to a matter of semantics.

“You may ask a team what they think of a certain one of your players, and the next thing you know they’re telling someone you offered him,” said a general manager. “You didn’t, but that’s how this thing works sometimes. It sucks — for you and for the player involved — but it’s the way it is.”

Having already gone too deep down the rabbit hole in relation to semantics in the Lebron thread, at risk of going further down...

I mean there's some level of why are they asking other GMs what they think the value of one of their players is if not to try and trade them...haha. But I guess say for example Brad could ask the Nets what they think JB's value is, but intend on trading JB to the Suns or whatever. That's one possibility.

I spent way too much time trying to find an article earlier today about this point, but essentially it was that this happens for virtually every player every year.  You do it to find value on your players and other players.  The Celtics say Horford, White, and 3 1sts. The Nets say no.  The Celtics then say Brown, White, and a 1st.  If the Nets say something more positive, now you’ve ascertained the Nets value on Brown.  If the Nets counter with Smart, Brown, Grant, and three firsts, you’ve ascertained that they’re crazy.

I wish I could find the article, but the quote I remember was something like 90% of players have been “offered” in a trade by Thanksgiving.  Further, these “offers” happen between assistants who are just canvassing the league for info, and aren’t actionable since the GMs only get involved for the real stuff.  It’s standard practice, and Woj makes a lot of money off it, because in pushing a team’s agenda with the fake offers, he’ll also get the scoop when the real deal happens.

Interesting - TP

Thanks.  Not exactly the article I’m looking for, but this has some important thoughts that might be relevant:

https://hoopshype.com/2017/02/21/this-is-how-trades-go-down-in-the-nba/

So, why is information leaked to the press?

One general manager said that he has seen younger, lower-level executives leak things to the media because they hope it can help them down the road. They want to be GMs one day and they believe getting the media on their side can help them. Some executives will also trade information with the media, giving up intel in order to learn something else about a certain team or player.

However, most executives said that finding the source of the leak is usually as simple as looking at who benefits from the conversation being made public.

Every GM said that the most common reason for a leak is because a team is trying to generate a market for their own player or pick. One GM also noted that some teams will make a call about a certain player and then leak that very conversation in hopes of souring the relationship between that player they’re pursuing and his current team’s front office. The idea is to create distrust between the player and executive, which then increases the likelihood of a deal because the player may become unhappy and want out. It’s manipulative, but it’s certainly a tactic some executives use.

[GreenlyGreeny]

[pokeKingCurtis]

https://heavy.com/sports/boston-celtics/kevin-durant-brooklyn-nets-trade/

Interesting note from Steve Bulpett and the heavy with some push back on whether Brown was actually offered in a deal.

Was There Really a Celtics Offer for Durant?
In the Celtics’ case, The Athletic has reported that Jaylen Brown, who turns 26 in October, Derrick White and a first round pick were offered. One source disputed that to Heavy, but the question of offers and counter-offers often comes down to a matter of semantics.

“You may ask a team what they think of a certain one of your players, and the next thing you know they’re telling someone you offered him,” said a general manager. “You didn’t, but that’s how this thing works sometimes. It sucks — for you and for the player involved — but it’s the way it is.”

Having already gone too deep down the rabbit hole in relation to semantics in the Lebron thread, at risk of going further down...

I mean there's some level of why are they asking other GMs what they think the value of one of their players is if not to try and trade them...haha. But I guess say for example Brad could ask the Nets what they think JB's value is, but intend on trading JB to the Suns or whatever. That's one possibility.

I spent way too much time trying to find an article earlier today about this point, but essentially it was that this happens for virtually every player every year.  You do it to find value on your players and other players.  The Celtics say Horford, White, and 3 1sts. The Nets say no.  The Celtics then say Brown, White, and a 1st.  If the Nets say something more positive, now you’ve ascertained the Nets value on Brown.  If the Nets counter with Smart, Brown, Grant, and three firsts, you’ve ascertained that they’re crazy.

I wish I could find the article, but the quote I remember was something like 90% of players have been “offered” in a trade by Thanksgiving.  Further, these “offers” happen between assistants who are just canvassing the league for info, and aren’t actionable since the GMs only get involved for the real stuff.  It’s standard practice, and Woj makes a lot of money off it, because in pushing a team’s agenda with the fake offers, he’ll also get the scoop when the real deal happens.

Interesting - TP

Thanks.  Not exactly the article I’m looking for, but this has some important thoughts that might be relevant:

https://hoopshype.com/2017/02/21/this-is-how-trades-go-down-in-the-nba/

So, why is information leaked to the press?

One general manager said that he has seen younger, lower-level executives leak things to the media because they hope it can help them down the road. They want to be GMs one day and they believe getting the media on their side can help them. Some executives will also trade information with the media, giving up intel in order to learn something else about a certain team or player.

However, most executives said that finding the source of the leak is usually as simple as looking at who benefits from the conversation being made public.

Every GM said that the most common reason for a leak is because a team is trying to generate a market for their own player or pick. One GM also noted that some teams will make a call about a certain player and then leak that very conversation in hopes of souring the relationship between that player they’re pursuing and his current team’s front office. The idea is to create distrust between the player and executive, which then increases the likelihood of a deal because the player may become unhappy and want out. It’s manipulative, but it’s certainly a tactic some executives use.

This tracks with my idea understanding of how the NBA works. Also makes sense that the more well run organizations (Celtics, Spurs) don't really have much rumors. The Lakers are not well run to me, not sure about the Nets but maybe they're just at the mercy of KD and Kyrie now.

[tenn_smoothie]

I hope there's some very open communication between Brad and JB.

His agent is Kanye, so my guess is that Brad doesn't have a great feel about how he operates.

How things have changed. Remember when Jaylen was his own agent and would hire industry specific consultants when negotiating contracts? Now it's Kanye - you've got to be kidding me.

Yeah, what does Kanye know about representing anyone as an agent.
The guy is weird as hell, which is a big red flag regarding Jaylen Brown. Why would he sign up with a complete novice ? Why, also, would he sidle up to Kyrie Irving. Those are two certifiable nut cases. I'm starting to think that Brown is enjoying putting out this enigma persona so he can watch people wring their hands about his real intentions. He certainly has made no effort to publicly clear the air about where he stands. I don't care for anyone who gets their rocks off being cryptic for effect.

[Kernewek]

From earlier in the thread:

Kanye's not his agent though. Donda Sports handles his marketing and branding. Not his actual NBA business.

It’s just as bad, though. Maybe worse. Wouldn’t be surprised if they are telling him that he needs his own team, in a bigger market as it will be better for his brand.

Sure. They could also just be advising him on growing his Jui7e brand and helping him land more media opportunities. Just pointing out that Donda sports does not handle his basketball and there'd be no reason for the team to engage with them around trade talks.

The pessimistic speculation around Jaylen is starting to get weird.

It's hilarious to me that the obviously-obfuscated reporting (i.e. how do we make a non-story a story to hit our July impressions) gets a free pass that we 'can't ignore' but what Jaylen had for breakfast is obviously the key to unlocking how he really feels about playing in Boston.

[Surferdad]

From earlier in the thread:

Kanye's not his agent though. Donda Sports handles his marketing and branding. Not his actual NBA business.

It’s just as bad, though. Maybe worse. Wouldn’t be surprised if they are telling him that he needs his own team, in a bigger market as it will be better for his brand.

Sure. They could also just be advising him on growing his Jui7e brand and helping him land more media opportunities. Just pointing out that Donda sports does not handle his basketball and there'd be no reason for the team to engage with them around trade talks.

The pessimistic speculation around Jaylen is starting to get weird.

It's hilarious to me that the obviously-obfuscated reporting (i.e. how do we make a non-story a story to hit our July impressions) gets a free pass that we 'can't ignore' but what Jaylen had for breakfast is obviously the key to unlocking how he really feels about playing in Boston.

This is gonna happen in the dog-days of the off-season. This whole Durant-Brown rumor seems made up by bored sportswriters hoping for a few clicks.  What's hilarious is not the obfuscation but that people, even pretty smart C's fans, are running with this.  Maybe it's time to switch to baseball for a few months.

[Kernewek]

From earlier in the thread:

Kanye's not his agent though. Donda Sports handles his marketing and branding. Not his actual NBA business.

It’s just as bad, though. Maybe worse. Wouldn’t be surprised if they are telling him that he needs his own team, in a bigger market as it will be better for his brand.

Sure. They could also just be advising him on growing his Jui7e brand and helping him land more media opportunities. Just pointing out that Donda sports does not handle his basketball and there'd be no reason for the team to engage with them around trade talks.

The pessimistic speculation around Jaylen is starting to get weird.

It's hilarious to me that the obviously-obfuscated reporting (i.e. how do we make a non-story a story to hit our July impressions) gets a free pass that we 'can't ignore' but what Jaylen had for breakfast is obviously the key to unlocking how he really feels about playing in Boston.

This is gonna happen in the dog-days of the off-season. This whole Durant-Brown rumor seems made up by bored sportswriters hoping for a few clicks.  What's hilarious is not the obfuscation but that people, even pretty smart C's fans, are running with this.  Maybe it's time to switch to baseball for a few months.

I'm on the wrong continent for that - Baseball is brutally hard to follow when you can't watch any of the games, more than the other big US sports. It's just too much information without the reward of the languid pace of seeing the games unfold.

But hey, the WSL US Open starts on friday, I believe, so that'll be fun to follow - even though that's just pure envy at this point since I don't live by the ocean anymore either.

[Roy H.]

This whole Durant-Brown rumor seems made up by bored sportswriters hoping for a few clicks.

I don't think that Woj and Shams care that much about clicks at this point.  Their reputation is more important.

I don't think that anything was made up here.  If Shams is reporting that JB was offered in a deal, I think that JB was offered in a deal.  I don't think that there's anything shocking about that.

[Celtics2021]

This whole Durant-Brown rumor seems made up by bored sportswriters hoping for a few clicks.

I don't think that Woj and Shams care that much about clicks at this point.  Their reputation is more important.

I don't think that anything was made up here.  If Shams is reporting that JB was offered in a deal, I think that JB was offered in a deal.  I don't think that there's anything shocking about that.

I agree this is true to an extent.  I think you are giving too much credence that this was an offer that was actually actionable.  In other words, I don’t think Brad Stevens called Sean Marks and made that offer out of the blue.  It was more likely Austin Ainge, or even someone under him, that made the call to someone beneath Sean Marks, and a bunch of ideas were thrown around, including this one, all with the known caveat that anything agreed to in that conversation would have to be run up the chain of command on both sides.

[SHAQATTACK]

Seems Nets are in a no win situation, if they   keep him possibly KD just leaves anyway , doesn’t show up at camp or at best the struggles though another season knowing the breakup of KD leaving is eminent . Bad look for the franchise . Or the Rest of the GM wait for a fire sale deal on KD , if Nets are just trying to move on from KD and get back to real world of establishing a new team . 

I see no rush to trade away the best young stars like Brown .  I remember how cheap Boogie went to Pels.

Not say n K D is not worth a bunch of good  assets ,  just say n I would make Nets squirm another 6 weeks , IMO they are under pressure to figure it out sooner than latter.

Nets are going to get bad history out of this regardless if they hang themselves or KD does it for them .

From what I can see Brown is the best young player they can possibly get.  No team wants to give up a young equal player of equal value as Jaylen .  Everybody seems to be sticking their nose up at KD.  KD might be had for much less than Brown actually , if Boston just says NO WAY.

Durrant might be had for scrapes and couple bad firsts.

[Kernewek]

This whole Durant-Brown rumor seems made up by bored sportswriters hoping for a few clicks.

I don't think that Woj and Shams care that much about clicks at this point.  Their reputation is more important.

I don't think that anything was made up here.  If Shams is reporting that JB was offered in a deal, I think that JB was offered in a deal.  I don't think that there's anything shocking about that.

I don't think the exchange was made up - but it might not be fresh, because there may not have been much to it.

[MarcusSmartFanClub]

There’s nothing going on in sports. The Nets don’t like what they’re being offered, and have their back against the wall. KD could miss time again this year if they don’t trade him. Kyrie and Ben Simmons aren’t concerned about showing up to work. The Nets need to trade KD and get guys that want to play.

I don’t blame them for holding out for a stud like JB. I would want him too if I was running the Nets. Who doesn’t want a young, 2 way all star? Who wants a 34 year old, oft injured malcontent?

[Goldstar88]

Seeing some major assumptions happening here, as well as negative feelings about Jaylen being projected into false realities.

So let me look at it from a different point of view.

This is old news. It is being linked from Brooklyn. Yes, Brad called to see what the Nets wanted for KD and when Brad heard JB, the conversation went dark. Brooklyn sees Brown as their best target in a KD trade,so is leaking the story now while trying to make it sound recent, in order to push Brad back to the bargaining table.

Brown's "likes" on tweets is trolling because he has a weird sense of humor and his "SMH" tweet is because he knows the Nets leaked the story and not Brad because Brad told him week's ago about his discussions with the Nets and Brad assured him he will be a Celtic for life if that's what he wants

Makes as much sense as any other scenario out there that people are making assumptions about what's happening right now.

So if you are the Celtics management, why not come out and say that JB is untouchable then? like the team has said regarding Tatum in the past. I would love for you to be right on this one, Nick.

All-NBA 1st team players in their mid 20s are untouchable. Dudes who do not always make the all-star team—who’ve only made the all-star game once in 6 seasons—are not untouchable.

JB is 25 and was the best player for the C's in the Finals. He's still improving each year. Durant will be 34 when the season starts, he's only going to regress at this point. Not worth it.

[Roy H.]

This whole Durant-Brown rumor seems made up by bored sportswriters hoping for a few clicks.

I don't think that Woj and Shams care that much about clicks at this point.  Their reputation is more important.

I don't think that anything was made up here.  If Shams is reporting that JB was offered in a deal, I think that JB was offered in a deal.  I don't think that there's anything shocking about that.

I don't think the exchange was made up - but it might not be fresh, because there may not have been much to it.

I think that's a fair way to look at it.  Woj says the teams have been in regular contact over the past month, but who knows what that means?

I think that the simplest explanation is probably the closest to the truth:  Brad gave Brooklyn an offer that was close to his best offer.  I'm sure there was some wiggle room, but not a ton.  Brooklyn came back with an asking price that Brad thought was ridiculous.  So, nothing got done, and nothing will get done without one side making a pretty large move.

And, sometimes large moves in negotiating position happen.  Sometimes those moves are prompted by deadlines, sometimes by one side reconsidering their position, etc.  But, sometimes there's just no middle ground.

My hope is that if Jaylen wants to be here, there's no trade.  And, if JB doesn't want to be here, then we look elsewhere as opposed to a ridiculous offer that includes Smart, Grant, and multiple firsts.