Lebron calls Celtics fans racist

[Moranis]

As always with these things, it depends on how you structure the question. And how much you drift from the original point. However.

Your source has Boston, the city, much higher than those other spaces  (save NY) in this list:
https://belonging.berkeley.edu/most-least-segregated-cities


But why even zig this way when there's the obvious one here:
https://edition.cnn.com/2017/05/31/sport/lebron-james-racist-graffiti-incident/index.html

Clearly Los Angeles is more racist than Boston. There we go. We've solved it. We've solved the 'who is most racist' game. Go away LeBron James, you big hypocrite you.  Shut up and dribble. Never speak again about anything, unless it is about how the Lakers suck and the Celtics are great.

Otherwise, I think MSFC has it nailed:

I’m not saying Boston is worse than other places. I’m saying that I believe these black players when they’ve faced overt racism, as I’ve also witnessed it. If you want to dissect his comment to try to poke holes (the most racist? Worse than Birmingham Alabama?), go for it.

I’m not offended by his comments, and those that have experienced racist acts first hand shouldn’t try to be defensive. I’ve def gone to ushers before to get drunk fans booted. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t. It doesn’t make sense to confront a drunk stranger, so I’m guessing this stuff will continue as people are nervous about retaliation.

If you want LeBron's receipts, that's fine. There's a big difference between that and the rest of my 'bingo card', which has already been discussed.

But. If we want to be conspiratorial about it, my favorite explanation is leftover rage from the "LeBron went south but his mom went West" shirts from back in the day, except he can't just say that.

Could you envision LeBron saying the same thing about any other city or region?

For instance, would LeBron ever say "Florida is racist AF." Or "Texas is racist AF."

I don't think he would. And the reason he wouldn't has nothing to do with how racist he thinks those areas might be.

Maybe not. Maybe it’s a bit of Republicans Buy Shoes Too calculus. We’ll never know what’s in his heart of hearts.

What we do know is that LeBron saying “[Celtics] fans are racist af” is not a particularly unique sentiment among players or other black folks that have to interact with the Celtics fanbase.

This doesn’t mean all Celtics fans are inherently racist - most of the posters on this board, I would venture to say, are not - and while you can take issue with the throwaway nature of the comment, I’m not sure applying ulterior motives to what he’s said to try and neutralise the gist of the point is particularly worthwhile.


(If anything, we would expect racism from Texas and Florida to be less surprising and therefore less worthy of discussion, no? Do we need an itemised catalog of every place any athlete has ever been where they’ve seen racism alongside a score of the severity so we can categorically say one place is more or less racist than another?)

Clearly Lebron wasn't talking about Boston the city or even most fans.  When he says the reason he hates Boston (i.e. playing there) is because they are racist as f..., he is talking about a few people that have spoiled it for the rest of us.  The other guys on the episode of the Shop didn't really follow up (probably because they too believe Boston has had some racial problems) and steered the discussion elsewhere so he didn't expand on the specific situations he faced to lead him to say that.  Anyone that thinks Lebron was talking about every single Celtics fan clearly needs to look in the mirror.

[MarcusSmartFanClub]

I just watched his video from the Shop. He said Boston fans will say whatever they want, and it’s the only place he has had a beer thrown at him.

You want to continue pressing so that he says the N word? At what point would you be willing to listen vs have a knee jerk defensive reaction?

Btw- I think Boston fans have continually gone over the line by treating basketball players like animals. Obviously this is the vast minority of fans. I brought this up on this site during Kyrie’s visit to Boston, and many people here thought fans were justified. Shut up, dribble, and take some middle aged white guy’s abuse! An economic transaction doesn’t give you the right to abuse waiters, baristas, or basketball players. It’s not cute- it is way over the line.

[johnnygreen]

If Boston is so racist, then why is LeBron part owner of the Boston Red Sox?

[Moranis]

And the Celtics players know this.  I mean here is Marcus Smart

“I’ve heard a couple of them. It’s kind of sad and sickening,” Smart told The Athletic. “Even though it’s an opposing team, we have guys on your home team that you’re saying these racial slurs and expect to go out and play for you. It’s tough. We just want everyone to be respectful.”

Here is Torii Hunter on why he had a no trade clause only for Boston

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/torii-hunter-boston-no-trade-clause_n_5edd9746c5b6bd197e143762

“I’ve been called the N-word in Boston more than 100 times,” Hunter said. “All the time. From little kids, and grown-ups sitting right next to them didn’t say anything.”

“If you’re doing that and allowing it amongst the people, I don’t want to be there,” he said.

Here is CC Sabathia saying the only stadium in the MLB he has heard the N-word is Fenway.  This was right after the Adam Jones incident

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/19296595/new-york-yankees-pitcher-cc-sabathia-says-black-players-expect-racism-boston

Yankees pitcher CC Sabathia, talking about Adam Jones' experience at Fenway Park on Monday night, said players expect racist taunts in Boston.

The veteran left-hander said it is talked about among black major leaguers.

"We know. There's 62 of us. We all know. When you go to Boston, expect it," Sabathia told reporters.

Talking Tuesday before the team's game against Toronto in New York, Sabathia said in his big league career, "I've never been called the N-word" anywhere but in Boston.

The reason these type of perceptions exist and persist is because they are absolutely rooted in fact and still happen.  You have Celtics players confirming it.  You have baseball players saying they only face it in Boston, I mean Sabathia said he has heard it just shagging balls in the outfield before games.  Little kids say it.  Adults say it.  Sober or drunk, makes no difference. 

If Boston wants to shed the image, then every single person at a game needs to stop saying racist things.  And when it is said, all of the fans need to rise up and remove the offending people.

[MarcusSmartFanClub]

My family has had season tickets to the Red Sox since the 60s and I’ve gone for over 30 years. I’ve heard multiple racist attacks towards players and Yankees fans. I believe most were alcohol induced (no excuse).

What would be my motivation to make this up? I love Boston and the Celtics, and I’m embarrassed by these actions. Some think that letting off some racial steam comes with the price of admission. I completely disagree.

Roy- for your info, I remember Shaq being called a “big ugly gorilla” in the old garden and people laughing. Is this not a racially motivated comment? How can you defend this fan?

[MarcusSmartFanClub]

I think people would be less defensive if Lebron said “Boston needs to crack down on the minority of people that make racially charged comments at games.”

I love to drink (not sure if my wife loves me drinking), but I would be willing to forego booze at the game if it means the Garden can be a classier place. I’m not going to hold my breath.

[Roy H.]

Roy- for your info, I remember Shaq being called a “big ugly gorilla” in the old garden and people laughing. Is this not a racially motivated comment? How can you defend this fan?

I wouldn't defend that fan.  That's specific information, and the overwhelming majority of people who call black men "gorillas" would be racist.

But, that's not what Lebron provided for information.  He gave two examples that aren't inherently linked to race.  They're hostile acts, vulgar acts, assaultive acts...  but not necessarily racist.  And, I don't think it's wrong to ask him what he's referring to.

[MarcusSmartFanClub]

Roy- for your info, I remember Shaq being called a “big ugly gorilla” in the old garden and people laughing. Is this not a racially motivated comment? How can you defend this fan?

I wouldn't defend that fan.  That's specific information, and the overwhelming majority of people who call black men "gorillas" would be racist.

But, that's not what Lebron provided for information.  He gave two examples that aren't inherently linked to race.  They're hostile acts, vulgar acts, assaultive acts...  but not necessarily racist.  And, I don't think it's wrong to ask him what he's referring to.

Roy, what about Moranis’ post? Multiple accounts from baseball and basketball players. Do you think they’re lying?

Marcus heard a middle aged white guy call him the N word before shoving him when he was at OK St. Instead of believing him, many considered Marcus to be a player with character concerns.

[Kernewek]

Roy- for your info, I remember Shaq being called a “big ugly gorilla” in the old garden and people laughing. Is this not a racially motivated comment? How can you defend this fan?

I wouldn't defend that fan.  That's specific information, and the overwhelming majority of people who call black men "gorillas" would be racist.

But, that's not what Lebron provided for information.  He gave two examples that aren't inherently linked to race.  They're hostile acts, vulgar acts, assaultive acts...  but not necessarily racist.  And, I don't think it's wrong to ask him what he's referring to.

Likewise, it's fair game to ask you why, as a white guy in a very white state, your race-o-meter only ticks over to 'AF' in a country most famous for apartheid policies that ended fewer than 30 years ago - when for most people (and particularly most black athletes) the bar for 'AF' status is probably lower.

But that's kind of rude and not really relevant to the point of the discussion, so no one is asking you because we're trusting what you're saying based on your lived experiences.

See how that works?

Edit: in case it’s not clear, my point isn’t to call Roy out as being racist, by the way. (He obviously isn’t). My point is that where you live and your own personal experience are going to shape how you, personally, evaluate these kinds of situations.

I grew up as a white dude in a pretty progressive part of New England. I went to uni in another pretty progressive, pretty white place in New England. One of my group of friends then was called Asian Chris (you can probably figure out why).

None of us, the group who had named Asian Chris Asian Chris, were racist. None of us thought that calling him Asian Chris was racist. Until we were told that, actually, using that name was kinda racist and he’d rather we didn’t. So we stopped, because after all, Chris is our friend and it’s a Edited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline.ty thing to be told. But we would have had no idea if he didn’t say anything.

I don’t have kids, but I live in a much, much, much, more diverse area than I did growing up, and my 20 something imaginary children wouldn’t come up with the same nickname that we did - and that one is pretty benign.

[Moranis]

More from Smart

https://www.theplayerstribune.com/posts/marcus-smart-nba-boston-celtics-covid-racial-injustice

Me and discrimination, me and racial profiling … we go way back.

We’ve got history.

As a kid back home in Texas, I was followed by sales associates in stores and called derogatory names more times than I can count. When I was a sophomore at Oklahoma State, a fan decided that it was perfectly O.K. for him to call me the n-word after I fell into the seats during a game.

When I got to the league in 2014, the racism didn’t stop.   

My rookie year, I bought a new Range Rover, and, knowing what I know about traffic stops in this country, I made [dang] sure that the tint on the windows was legal. Somehow, though … I just kept getting pulled over for my tint.

One time it was like, “This is a pretty nice car. Pretty expensive. It’s yours?”

Another time, I get pulled over for the tint again, and the officer recognizes who I am. So for whatever reason he starts going in on Colin Kaepernick.

“I can’t believe that guy would actually kneel like that during the anthem,” he tells me. “Can you believe that? I’m just really glad you’re not like that guy. Right? You’re not one of them.”

I was terrified hearing that.

I felt like that officer was looking for me to challenge him, or to respond in a way that would allow him to take some action against me. I basically just kept quiet, hoped for the best, and asked, again and again, “Is that all, officer?”

A year or so later, I got pulled over for speeding and it was just ... more of the same.

“Nice ride. Are you a rapper or something?”

And then….

“No, you speak too well to be a rapper.”

I could go on, I’m sad to say.

There are several more, including stuff that’s happened right inside NBA arenas.

But the incident that has stuck with me the most, and that’s had the biggest impact on me, occurred a few years back after a victory at the Garden.

I was pulling out of the arena parking lot when I saw a white woman with her five- or six-year-old son crossing against the light right as the cars were starting to come at them. I had my windows down and realized something bad was about to happen, so I yelled to her, politely, that she needed to hurry and get out of the street so the two of them wouldn’t get hurt.

The woman was wearing an Isaiah Thomas number 4 Celts jersey. And there were all these other Celtics fans around who were at the game. I figured she’d be cool. 

Nope.

She swung her head around and it was….

“F*** you, you f***ing n-word!!!!”

For a second it was like I couldn’t breathe.

Did she really say that?

And in an instant, just like that, I was made to feel less than human.

I wasn’t a person to this woman. I was a form of entertainment. Nothing more. And, believe me, it took every ounce of restraint in my body not to curse her out.

A few seconds later, I drove off. I just wanted it to be over.

But I think about that night, that moment, a lot. And more than anything else, I think about….

That little boy.

[Neurotic Guy]

More from Smart

https://www.theplayerstribune.com/posts/marcus-smart-nba-boston-celtics-covid-racial-injustice

Me and discrimination, me and racial profiling … we go way back.

We’ve got history.

As a kid back home in Texas, I was followed by sales associates in stores and called derogatory names more times than I can count. When I was a sophomore at Oklahoma State, a fan decided that it was perfectly O.K. for him to call me the n-word after I fell into the seats during a game.

When I got to the league in 2014, the racism didn’t stop.   

My rookie year, I bought a new Range Rover, and, knowing what I know about traffic stops in this country, I made [dang] sure that the tint on the windows was legal. Somehow, though … I just kept getting pulled over for my tint.

One time it was like, “This is a pretty nice car. Pretty expensive. It’s yours?”

Another time, I get pulled over for the tint again, and the officer recognizes who I am. So for whatever reason he starts going in on Colin Kaepernick.

“I can’t believe that guy would actually kneel like that during the anthem,” he tells me. “Can you believe that? I’m just really glad you’re not like that guy. Right? You’re not one of them.”

I was terrified hearing that.

I felt like that officer was looking for me to challenge him, or to respond in a way that would allow him to take some action against me. I basically just kept quiet, hoped for the best, and asked, again and again, “Is that all, officer?”

A year or so later, I got pulled over for speeding and it was just ... more of the same.

“Nice ride. Are you a rapper or something?”

And then….

“No, you speak too well to be a rapper.”

I could go on, I’m sad to say.

There are several more, including stuff that’s happened right inside NBA arenas.

But the incident that has stuck with me the most, and that’s had the biggest impact on me, occurred a few years back after a victory at the Garden.

I was pulling out of the arena parking lot when I saw a white woman with her five- or six-year-old son crossing against the light right as the cars were starting to come at them. I had my windows down and realized something bad was about to happen, so I yelled to her, politely, that she needed to hurry and get out of the street so the two of them wouldn’t get hurt.

The woman was wearing an Isaiah Thomas number 4 Celts jersey. And there were all these other Celtics fans around who were at the game. I figured she’d be cool. 

Nope.

She swung her head around and it was….

“F*** you, you f***ing n-word!!!!”

For a second it was like I couldn’t breathe.

Did she really say that?

And in an instant, just like that, I was made to feel less than human.

I wasn’t a person to this woman. I was a form of entertainment. Nothing more. And, believe me, it took every ounce of restraint in my body not to curse her out.

A few seconds later, I drove off. I just wanted it to be over.

But I think about that night, that moment, a lot. And more than anything else, I think about….

That little boy.

Wow! I love that.  I'd like to comment more but have to run.  Interested in responses from those who tend to minimize racial prejudice experienced by Black Americans.

[MarcusSmartFanClub]

Interesting read: https://www.bostonmagazine.com/news/2021/09/10/boston-racist-reputation/

I think this article, written by a black Bostonian, is spot on.

"On one side of this perennial debate are Black and brown people from outside Boston and across the nation arguing that the city deserves its racist reputation. On the other side are white Bostonians denying that a particular incident was racist or, worse, that there is racism in Boston at all. The irony, lost on so many, is that those who are most hurt by this debate—by both sides of the argument—are the Black people, like me, who call Boston home."

[Moranis]

More from Smart

https://www.theplayerstribune.com/posts/marcus-smart-nba-boston-celtics-covid-racial-injustice

Me and discrimination, me and racial profiling … we go way back.

We’ve got history.

As a kid back home in Texas, I was followed by sales associates in stores and called derogatory names more times than I can count. When I was a sophomore at Oklahoma State, a fan decided that it was perfectly O.K. for him to call me the n-word after I fell into the seats during a game.

When I got to the league in 2014, the racism didn’t stop.   

My rookie year, I bought a new Range Rover, and, knowing what I know about traffic stops in this country, I made [dang] sure that the tint on the windows was legal. Somehow, though … I just kept getting pulled over for my tint.

One time it was like, “This is a pretty nice car. Pretty expensive. It’s yours?”

Another time, I get pulled over for the tint again, and the officer recognizes who I am. So for whatever reason he starts going in on Colin Kaepernick.

“I can’t believe that guy would actually kneel like that during the anthem,” he tells me. “Can you believe that? I’m just really glad you’re not like that guy. Right? You’re not one of them.”

I was terrified hearing that.

I felt like that officer was looking for me to challenge him, or to respond in a way that would allow him to take some action against me. I basically just kept quiet, hoped for the best, and asked, again and again, “Is that all, officer?”

A year or so later, I got pulled over for speeding and it was just ... more of the same.

“Nice ride. Are you a rapper or something?”

And then….

“No, you speak too well to be a rapper.”

I could go on, I’m sad to say.

There are several more, including stuff that’s happened right inside NBA arenas.

But the incident that has stuck with me the most, and that’s had the biggest impact on me, occurred a few years back after a victory at the Garden.

I was pulling out of the arena parking lot when I saw a white woman with her five- or six-year-old son crossing against the light right as the cars were starting to come at them. I had my windows down and realized something bad was about to happen, so I yelled to her, politely, that she needed to hurry and get out of the street so the two of them wouldn’t get hurt.

The woman was wearing an Isaiah Thomas number 4 Celts jersey. And there were all these other Celtics fans around who were at the game. I figured she’d be cool. 

Nope.

She swung her head around and it was….

“F*** you, you f***ing n-word!!!!”

For a second it was like I couldn’t breathe.

Did she really say that?

And in an instant, just like that, I was made to feel less than human.

I wasn’t a person to this woman. I was a form of entertainment. Nothing more. And, believe me, it took every ounce of restraint in my body not to curse her out.

A few seconds later, I drove off. I just wanted it to be over.

But I think about that night, that moment, a lot. And more than anything else, I think about….

That little boy.

Wow! I love that.  I'd like to comment more but have to run.  Interested in responses from those who tend to minimize racial prejudice experienced by Black Americans.

the whole piece is a great read. Talks about his experience with covid, goes to race, and all sorts of other things. I only pulled out some of the race stuff that was relevant to this conversation.

[MarcusSmartFanClub]

Where do white entertainers receive this abuse? I’ve been thinking about it. I’ve been to many football games at Gillette and haven’t heard anything racial. I’ve heard multiple boos at black players kneeling during the national anthem, but that’s a more nuanced topic including nationalism.

Does this happen in WWE? I’ve never been. UFC? I’ve heard the Premiership deals with racism, but not towards white players.

The optics are:

Vast majority of fans are white

And

Some Fans loudly abuse players

And

Vast majority of players are black

It isn’t rocket science to see what conclusions are drawn. If a black player has garbage thrown at him, I’m certainly not going to say with conviction that it wasn’t a racist act.

[kraidstar]

My main issue is that LeBron spoke so flippantly and doesn't really have anything insightful or interesting to say about this topic.

Of course there are racists in Boston. Of course there are racial undertones in sports. There are racial undertones in everything in America. We are constantly looking for enemies within. You see a Biden or a Trump banner in someone's yard and the mind jumps to all sorts of conclusions that may or may not have anything in common with the person's actual character.

We are addicted to conflict and to hate.

Sports, in some ways, is an ideal example of this. I remember despising Peyton Mannings's "good old boy" routine when he played against the Pats. It really got under my skin. The same could be said of Aaron Rodgers' aloof Bohemian schtick or Tom Brady's practiced vanilla political-speak. In a way I guess I hated Peyton Manning's whiteness.

But I love Matthew McConnaghey, who similarly spews drawling anecdotes and hawks products in commercials. But McConnaghey wasn't wearing Colts or Broncos colors.

When a person is on the opposite side of the fence it is easy to hate everything about them. You want to assume the worst because that makes you and your side more righteous, more worthy.

A Celtics fan can look at Draymond Green and see an "aggressive black man," and, an instant later, see Marcus Smart's antics as "tough, old-school dirt-dog basketball." The uniforms write the narrative. The Warriors were standing between us and a championship, so of course they must be bad. To an opposing player, the vitriol of the fans might come across as racist. And race does play a role in it, as it does in everything. Draymond Green is black. It's part of who he is. In the frenzy of a championship series the Celtics fans are going to hate Draymond, and, maybe subconsciously, hate his blackness as well, because it is a part of the person tormenting us. I don't think it is intentional, but maybe that adds a little extra dollop of malice onto the proverbial cake.

Race has been embedded in American identity from the beginning, and its political significance has only intensified since the Civil War. And sports are like a daily Civil War. Boston is the city of Tom Yawkey, of the 70's bussing policy, of the Bird/McHale/Ainge Celtics vs the Magic/Kareem/Worthy Lakers. Basketball players, media, and fans have many preconceived ideas about who is on what side. Some of it might be fair, some is not.

One thing I know is that, had LeBron played on the Celtics, he would have loved it here. But instead he was on the other side, and the Celtics were the team that knocked him out of the playoffs twice and catalyzed his flight to Miami. Despite the two titles he won, his career took a hit with that move, to the point where he felt obligated to return to Cleveland to prove he could win there. I don't think he's ever forgiven the Celtics for that.

And I think that played into the flippancy of his comments, which is a shame. Because while race is inherently imbedded into everything, sports is, at its heart, supposed to be fun. Hatred and all. There are lines that shouldn't be crossed - aka slinging beer and racial slurs - but if LeBron's problems are that white Celtics fans are wearing "F-LBJ" shirts and are chanting against Draymond then maybe he needs to take a step back, look in the mirror, and lighten up.