Is Grant a goner? (Yes: Traded to DAL for second rounders)

[Celtics2021]

Yeah.  For instance, the Celtics still have the Taxpayer MLE.  They just won't use it, because it would hard cap them at the second apron.

Yes, if they hard cap themselves by using what would only be a portion of the TPMLE, that would prevent them from using the TPE or signing any other vet mins, at least I think that is the case.

Or can they still sign a player with vet min, even if they are hard capped?

Nope, no vet mins unless they dump salary in a trade.  Hard cap is a hard cap.

Even if you only have 12 or 13 players signed?  Or would the cap holds associated with the empty roster spots prevent that scenario?

I think it puts in a roster hold to get you to 14.  I forget what the hold amount is (vet min. Vs rookie min).

OK, these roster holds, whether 13 or 14, must be how they work around using the MLE if you don't have a "full" roster.  I checked HOU on Spotrac.  They have 13 players on the roster plus 2-2 ways but no cap holds listed for roster spots.  This makes me think that the number is 13.  But it is moot for the Celtics, they are at 14, and if they use the TPMLE, they won't be able to add a vet min unless they waive Champagnie or do something else to free up a roster spot

For the soft cap, roster holds stop once you get to 12 players.  Houston being a cap team would care about that number.   For the hard cap, it would be different because you’re bound by the rule of having 14 players on the roster and the hard cap.

[tonydelk]

From the Globe Article on Grant.  Guess this is why he stayed out of the rotation.  Probably complained about being benched so he stayed on the bench.  IMO you play your best players.  I wonder if the team had a lack of respect for Joe and Joe had to prove a point.  Either way it's garbage on both ends.

Near season’s end veteran forward Blake Griffin, who has gone from superstar to end-of-bench role player, pulled Williams aside and commended him for learning how to be a pro when things did not go his way. Williams acknowledges that he did not handle himself perfectly, but he gained valuable lessons.

“I had a two-week span of being unprofessional, which I look back on and I’m disappointed in myself with,” Williams said. “I had to be able to realize that being professional isn’t just about when you’re having success. It’s also about your darkest days.”

[Goldstar88]

From the Globe Article on Grant.  Guess this is why he stayed out of the rotation.  Probably complained about being benched so he stayed on the bench.  IMO you play your best players.  I wonder if the team had a lack of respect for Joe and Joe had to prove a point.  Either way it's garbage on both ends.

Near season’s end veteran forward Blake Griffin, who has gone from superstar to end-of-bench role player, pulled Williams aside and commended him for learning how to be a pro when things did not go his way. Williams acknowledges that he did not handle himself perfectly, but he gained valuable lessons.

“I had a two-week span of being unprofessional, which I look back on and I’m disappointed in myself with,” Williams said. “I had to be able to realize that being professional isn’t just about when you’re having success. It’s also about your darkest days.”

Coincidence that the two players who seemed to have a the most difficulty controlling their emotions are no longer on the team? Hmmm…

[Roy H.]

Two weeks of unprofessionalism will do it.

[Celtics4ever]

Looks like Gabe was right about attitude problems to some degree.

[SparzWizard]

From the Globe Article on Grant.  Guess this is why he stayed out of the rotation.  Probably complained about being benched so he stayed on the bench.  IMO you play your best players.  I wonder if the team had a lack of respect for Joe and Joe had to prove a point.  Either way it's garbage on both ends.

Near season’s end veteran forward Blake Griffin, who has gone from superstar to end-of-bench role player, pulled Williams aside and commended him for learning how to be a pro when things did not go his way. Williams acknowledges that he did not handle himself perfectly, but he gained valuable lessons.

“I had a two-week span of being unprofessional, which I look back on and I’m disappointed in myself with,” Williams said. “I had to be able to realize that being professional isn’t just about when you’re having success. It’s also about your darkest days.”

Can't forget how G-Will bricked those 2 FTs and caused the C's to lose to the Cavs in taht one game. Always yapping. And him yapping with Jimmy Butler too in the playoffs. Unnecessary

[Silas]

From the Globe Article on Grant.  Guess this is why he stayed out of the rotation.  Probably complained about being benched so he stayed on the bench.  IMO you play your best players.  I wonder if the team had a lack of respect for Joe and Joe had to prove a point.  Either way it's garbage on both ends.

Near season’s end veteran forward Blake Griffin, who has gone from superstar to end-of-bench role player, pulled Williams aside and commended him for learning how to be a pro when things did not go his way. Williams acknowledges that he did not handle himself perfectly, but he gained valuable lessons.

“I had a two-week span of being unprofessional, which I look back on and I’m disappointed in myself with,” Williams said. “I had to be able to realize that being professional isn’t just about when you’re having success. It’s also about your darkest days.”

Can't forget how G-Will bricked those 2 FTs and caused the C's to lose to the Cavs in taht one game. Always yapping. And him yapping with Jimmy Butler too in the playoffs. Unnecessary

He was immature for sure.  Playing the big boy/stud and failing in the spotlight.  Always running his mouth.  I'm not going to miss him.

[Neurotic Guy]

From the Globe Article on Grant.  Guess this is why he stayed out of the rotation.  Probably complained about being benched so he stayed on the bench.  IMO you play your best players.  I wonder if the team had a lack of respect for Joe and Joe had to prove a point.  Either way it's garbage on both ends.

Near season’s end veteran forward Blake Griffin, who has gone from superstar to end-of-bench role player, pulled Williams aside and commended him for learning how to be a pro when things did not go his way. Williams acknowledges that he did not handle himself perfectly, but he gained valuable lessons.

“I had a two-week span of being unprofessional, which I look back on and I’m disappointed in myself with,” Williams said. “I had to be able to realize that being professional isn’t just about when you’re having success. It’s also about your darkest days.”

Can't forget how G-Will bricked those 2 FTs and caused the C's to lose to the Cavs in taht one game. Always yapping. And him yapping with Jimmy Butler too in the playoffs. Unnecessary

He was immature for sure.  Playing the big boy/stud and failing in the spotlight.  Always running his mouth.  I'm not going to miss him.

23 year olds can be immature.  33 year olds too.  Sometimes 64 year olds (me) can be as well.   I think Grant will grow into a mature professional in time.

That said, he was definitely immature at times and I think it cost him and the team occasionally. 

I’ve been trying to come up with an analogous hypothetical - a guy of Grant’s age and stature in the league getting in the face of Larry Bird (say, 1986) the way Grant got in Butler’s face.  Yeah, Butler isn’t Bird, but you get the point.  Young bench guy up in Bird’s face - probably would not have ended well for that player’s team. 

[obnoxiousmime]

From the Globe Article on Grant.  Guess this is why he stayed out of the rotation.  Probably complained about being benched so he stayed on the bench.  IMO you play your best players.  I wonder if the team had a lack of respect for Joe and Joe had to prove a point.  Either way it's garbage on both ends.

Near season’s end veteran forward Blake Griffin, who has gone from superstar to end-of-bench role player, pulled Williams aside and commended him for learning how to be a pro when things did not go his way. Williams acknowledges that he did not handle himself perfectly, but he gained valuable lessons.

“I had a two-week span of being unprofessional, which I look back on and I’m disappointed in myself with,” Williams said. “I had to be able to realize that being professional isn’t just about when you’re having success. It’s also about your darkest days.”

Can't forget how G-Will bricked those 2 FTs and caused the C's to lose to the Cavs in taht one game. Always yapping. And him yapping with Jimmy Butler too in the playoffs. Unnecessary

He was immature for sure.  Playing the big boy/stud and failing in the spotlight.  Always running his mouth.  I'm not going to miss him.

23 year olds can be immature.  33 year olds too.  Sometimes 64 year olds (me) can be as well.   I think Grant will grow into a mature professional in time.

That said, he was definitely immature at times and I think it cost him and the team occasionally. 

I’ve been trying to come up with an analogous hypothetical - a guy of Grant’s age and stature in the league getting in the face of Larry Bird (say, 1986) the way Grant got in Butler’s face.  Yeah, Butler isn’t Bird, but you get the point.  Young bench guy up in Bird’s face - probably would not have ended well for that player’s team.

What's weird is there always seemed to be a disconnect with what he said and his actual actions. It was like he was smart enough to know to say the right things (cliches) most of the time, but secretly he wanted more and it wasn't just related to his on-court role. His personality seemed to crave more attention than what a player in his role usually receives. If you're a role player, you're not supposed to be upsetting the hierarchy by causing a lot of commotion on or off the court. I think he wanted to be more of a playmaker, to the point where it almost seemed like he'd pass up a reasonable 3 opportunity just so he could drive off the closeout and "make a play." Just look at his pie-in-the-sky contract goal of $20m/year. Yes, players are supposed to ask for more in negotiations but that figure just made it seem like he thought he had much more potential in his game than probably all the other teams did.

Now, I think this is something a stronger coach could have handled. It's not like we're talking about a malcontent here and keeping Grant engaged was important for the playoffs. Was the very public benching ultimately the best way to get Grant in line? Maybe, but it didn't really seem like he ever had the same impact in the playoffs like he did last year.

[Vermont Green]

Grant had his moments, for sure.  But I highly doubt that this would factor into the decision to keep Grant or not.  He seems contrite, admitted his mistake.  Many NBA players have done far worse.  I think they passed on Grant because the cost got too high.  I also think in the end, Grant may have said he wanted to move on.

[Vermont Green]

Last Friday night, two days after Grant Williams learned he was headed to the Mavericks in a sign-and-trade, the forward went to dinner at a posh Las Vegas restaurant with his close friend and former Celtics teammate, Jayson Tatum. Over the last four seasons the two developed a brotherly relationship built on sarcasm and playful ribbing, and they saw no reason to stop on this night, even though they were now rivals. “I’m gonna bust your [butt] when we play Dallas,” Tatum told Williams. “You think?” Williams said. “You can’t go left. And I’m gonna be physical with you, and you’ll go cry to the referees.” – via Boston Globe

Williams said his uneven role last year had already made him a bit leery of a Boston return. “I kind of had perspective,” he said. “Even after the season and before the Kristaps trade, I had some understanding of what I was trying to accomplish in free agency, and where I saw myself moving forward.” – via Boston Globe

If this is correct (the second report), Grant wanted out.  The Celtics help work it out with a sign and trade.

[obnoxiousmime]

Last Friday night, two days after Grant Williams learned he was headed to the Mavericks in a sign-and-trade, the forward went to dinner at a posh Las Vegas restaurant with his close friend and former Celtics teammate, Jayson Tatum. Over the last four seasons the two developed a brotherly relationship built on sarcasm and playful ribbing, and they saw no reason to stop on this night, even though they were now rivals. “I’m gonna bust your [butt] when we play Dallas,” Tatum told Williams. “You think?” Williams said. “You can’t go left. And I’m gonna be physical with you, and you’ll go cry to the referees.” – via Boston Globe

Williams said his uneven role last year had already made him a bit leery of a Boston return. “I kind of had perspective,” he said. “Even after the season and before the Kristaps trade, I had some understanding of what I was trying to accomplish in free agency, and where I saw myself moving forward.” – via Boston Globe

If this is correct (the second report), Grant wanted out.  The Celtics help work it out with a sign and trade.

Oh, he definitely wanted to go. I don't think anybody disputes that, they just wanted the Celtics to keep the asset and maintain the depth for at least this season.

[Birdman]

Grant will start in Dallas, he never would had in Boston so smart on his part to sign with Dallas

[ChillyWilly]

Grant will start in Dallas, he never would had in Boston so smart on his part to sign with Dallas

Good luck to Dallas as I dont think Grant is a starting level player in the NBA. Guess we'll soon find out if corner office Grant is back in business.

[celticinorlando]

Don’t think there were any  plans by either side for grant to be back
In Boston