Is it fair to criticize Ben Simmons?

[Moranis]

Are people here familiar with anxiety disorders?  I'm surprised that so many are saying "I'm not buying it".

I have an anxiety disorder.  There's a difference between day to day stress / anxiousness and a mental health diagnoses.  I've always been a high achiever.  I didn't really have a "panic attack" until college, and that was a one time thing.  But, my mother died when I was in my early 20s, and after a brief period of what was probably depression, I developed more debilitating anxiety.  An inability to control my emotions -- particularly anger -- and a feeling of overwhelm in situations that would be pretty normal to most people.  Mix that with some alcohol abuse, and I had some struggles in my personal relationships. 

Nobody really knew what I was going through, even the people who would see some instability from me.  But, it was messing with my life.  I'd avoid emails, blow off deadlines, etc.  Things that very much were "not me".  And then, long story short, I tried some medication and my life went back mostly to normal.  I'm lucky for that, because it allows me to able to enjoy a career, a family, etc.  But, there are moments when I still need to isolate myself. 

But, not everybody's anxiety -- or whatever they're struggling with -- can be treated successfully with meds.  Sometimes it takes therapy.  Sometimes the treatment takes years.  Sometimes people are in denial.

So, for Ben Simmons the human being, I expect that he's dealing with some real stuff, and I'm somewhat sympathetic to that.

But at the same time, when you're in the spotlight, and when you accept $160 million, and when endorsing products, I think it's fair to criticize, because all of those things are undermining your mental health.

And yet the Sixers didn't pay him.  And they know his medical issues, at least better than any of us.  They didn't pay him at all.  The Sixers pretty clearly did not believe that Simmons had a disease or illness.  They pretty clearly believe he was just unhappy and didn't want to be there.  We know this because THEY DID NOT PAY HIM.  When the employer doesn't believe the employee, that speaks volumes.  When the employee never uses the words illness or disease, that speaks volumes.  When the employee doesn't even cite a condition, that speaks volumes. 

When guys like Kevin Love talk about their mental health, they use actual terms like anxiety and depression.  They talk about the struggle and detail what they have to do to cope with it and make it better for themselves.  They don't use vague phrases and references.  They don't bring additional attention on themselves by dressing flamboyantly or putting out strange vague statements.  And they certainly don't have a public dispute over compensation.

Everything out there leads to but one conclusion, Ben Simmons was unhappy and quit not that he has a mental health disease, condition, or illness.

There is so much wrong with this post, I don't want to address it all, so will just say your last sentence is completely wrong and if you had even a small amount of education on mental health issues you would know that.

I do.  I'm just not projecting my own personal things onto Simmons and am looking at the known facts objectively.  Simmons statements and the actions of the teams and people around him, do not lead to the conclusion that Ben Simmons has a mental illness, disease, or condition.

Not projecting at all, just seeing the patterns and behavior you just aren't seeing or understanding. I am also believing what Simmons says publicly because he behavior makes sense with his claims and not entirely believing what Philly is claiming, like you are, because it's the right things to say to save $20 million

But you are looking for patterns and behaviors and projecting onto those, rather than looking at it objectively.

What we know.

After receiving his initial down payment of his contract, Simmons failed to report to camp.

After the Sixers fined him for not reporting, he showed up, including before a game, but claimed he was not "prepared mentally" to play and didn't play.

He then refused to participate in team related activities, refused to work with the Sixers doctors, and then refused to share medical information from his own doctors with the team.  Thereafter, the Sixers started fining him again.

The Sixers continued to fine him until he was traded and there was very little in way of information reported until he was traded to Brooklyn.

Almost immediately upon being traded, he started to ramp up his conditioning to get ready to play before he herniated a disc in his back.

He couldn't recover from his back injury in time to play this season, it happens, as those are tough.

At no time over the last year, has Simmons or Klutch ever said Simmons has a mental health illness, disease, or condition.  They've never identified anything that he is suffering from.  They've only ever used vague terms like not mentally ready to play and things like that.  And it would be one thing if there wasn't reporting on him and that is why his condition wasn't reported, but that isn't the case.  His team has done a lot of interviews, they've talked about his mental health a lot, but they never have said what it is he is suffering from.  The logical conclusion of all of that, is Ben Simmons does not actually have a mental health disease, illness or condition, and he has never claimed to have one.  The Sixers don't believe he had one.  And his own actions both before and after the trade, don't lead to that conclusion either.  Ben Simmons was unhappy and sat out because he was unhappy.  He wanted to work somewhere new, so he did what he could to work somewhere near. 

[Moranis]

Are people here familiar with anxiety disorders?  I'm surprised that so many are saying "I'm not buying it".

I have an anxiety disorder.  There's a difference between day to day stress / anxiousness and a mental health diagnoses.  I've always been a high achiever.  I didn't really have a "panic attack" until college, and that was a one time thing.  But, my mother died when I was in my early 20s, and after a brief period of what was probably depression, I developed more debilitating anxiety.  An inability to control my emotions -- particularly anger -- and a feeling of overwhelm in situations that would be pretty normal to most people.  Mix that with some alcohol abuse, and I had some struggles in my personal relationships. 

Nobody really knew what I was going through, even the people who would see some instability from me.  But, it was messing with my life.  I'd avoid emails, blow off deadlines, etc.  Things that very much were "not me".  And then, long story short, I tried some medication and my life went back mostly to normal.  I'm lucky for that, because it allows me to able to enjoy a career, a family, etc.  But, there are moments when I still need to isolate myself. 

But, not everybody's anxiety -- or whatever they're struggling with -- can be treated successfully with meds.  Sometimes it takes therapy.  Sometimes the treatment takes years.  Sometimes people are in denial.

So, for Ben Simmons the human being, I expect that he's dealing with some real stuff, and I'm somewhat sympathetic to that.

But at the same time, when you're in the spotlight, and when you accept $160 million, and when endorsing products, I think it's fair to criticize, because all of those things are undermining your mental health.

And yet the Sixers didn't pay him.  And they know his medical issues, at least better than any of us.  They didn't pay him at all.  The Sixers pretty clearly did not believe that Simmons had a disease or illness.  They pretty clearly believe he was just unhappy and didn't want to be there.  We know this because THEY DID NOT PAY HIM.  When the employer doesn't believe the employee, that speaks volumes.  When the employee never uses the words illness or disease, that speaks volumes.  When the employee doesn't even cite a condition, that speaks volumes. 

When guys like Kevin Love talk about their mental health, they use actual terms like anxiety and depression.  They talk about the struggle and detail what they have to do to cope with it and make it better for themselves.  They don't use vague phrases and references.  They don't bring additional attention on themselves by dressing flamboyantly or putting out strange vague statements.  And they certainly don't have a public dispute over compensation.

Everything out there leads to but one conclusion, Ben Simmons was unhappy and quit not that he has a mental health disease, condition, or illness.

There is so much wrong with this post, I don't want to address it all, so will just say your last sentence is completely wrong and if you had even a small amount of education on mental health issues you would know that.

I do.  I'm just not projecting my own personal things onto Simmons and am looking at the known facts objectively.  Simmons statements and the actions of the teams and people around him, do not lead to the conclusion that Ben Simmons has a mental illness, disease, or condition.

Other than the statements  of Simmons, his management and his coach, you mean?  And his actions of avoidance, first of shooting and then participating at all?

Odd take.

You mean vague statements like not mentally ready to play.  That isn't in any way indicative of a disease, illness, or condition. 

He "hated" his coworkers and boss, and didn't want to work with them.  So he quit.  That happens every day in all walks of life, it doesn't mean the person doing it has a mental health disease, illness, or condition.  It just means they didn't like their coworkers, boss, or job.  It just isn't as easy to do when you have a contract and play a professional sport.

[slamtheking]

I'm skeptical at best of any of his mental health issues.  the timing of this issue coming to light was just too convenient in enabling him to sit out the season.  there may indeed be some physical issues with his back but after sitting out a whole year, and passing a team physical in order to be traded, I find those claims to be dubious as well.

yes, he deserves all the criticism coming his way for being physically and mentally soft as well as making people with real mental issues less believable in their plight.  would love nothing better than to see the league investigate him and possibly suspend him from the league for fraudulent collection of his pay.

Haven't we seen his mental health issues in real time?  Being afraid to shoot to the point where he's passing up dunks is a form of anxiety, right?

I don't equate the two.  his in game issue may be performance anxiety but that's while on the court and could simply be a matter of him paranoid/afraid of performing poorly in a public forum.   I consider a real mental health issue would impact his entire life, not just on the court.  his call for attention with his attire on the sidelines of the games leads me to believe his issues are not life related as much as game related. 

he very well may have a real mental issue that impacts his overall life but I very doubtful that his claims aren't a ploy to get paid while avoiding playing to earn it and suffer the slings and arrows that come with poor performance.

Interesting take.  I guess my response would be, how do you know to what degree his issues are affecting himself outside of his career?  And, the way somebody dresses says almost nothing about their mental health.  I've met all kinds of people who appear confident who are "faking it" and are semi-crippled on the inside.  I'v met many who dress flamboyantly because they're deflecting from something.

that very well may be true and god knows I've hid my severe depression from those closest to me but something just rings false about his claims.  if I'm wrong, I'll gladly offer a mea culpa but I just don't find him believable on this. 

[Roy H.]

Are people here familiar with anxiety disorders?  I'm surprised that so many are saying "I'm not buying it".

I have an anxiety disorder.  There's a difference between day to day stress / anxiousness and a mental health diagnoses.  I've always been a high achiever.  I didn't really have a "panic attack" until college, and that was a one time thing.  But, my mother died when I was in my early 20s, and after a brief period of what was probably depression, I developed more debilitating anxiety.  An inability to control my emotions -- particularly anger -- and a feeling of overwhelm in situations that would be pretty normal to most people.  Mix that with some alcohol abuse, and I had some struggles in my personal relationships. 

Nobody really knew what I was going through, even the people who would see some instability from me.  But, it was messing with my life.  I'd avoid emails, blow off deadlines, etc.  Things that very much were "not me".  And then, long story short, I tried some medication and my life went back mostly to normal.  I'm lucky for that, because it allows me to able to enjoy a career, a family, etc.  But, there are moments when I still need to isolate myself. 

But, not everybody's anxiety -- or whatever they're struggling with -- can be treated successfully with meds.  Sometimes it takes therapy.  Sometimes the treatment takes years.  Sometimes people are in denial.

So, for Ben Simmons the human being, I expect that he's dealing with some real stuff, and I'm somewhat sympathetic to that.

But at the same time, when you're in the spotlight, and when you accept $160 million, and when endorsing products, I think it's fair to criticize, because all of those things are undermining your mental health.

And yet the Sixers didn't pay him.  And they know his medical issues, at least better than any of us.  They didn't pay him at all.  The Sixers pretty clearly did not believe that Simmons had a disease or illness.  They pretty clearly believe he was just unhappy and didn't want to be there.  We know this because THEY DID NOT PAY HIM.  When the employer doesn't believe the employee, that speaks volumes.  When the employee never uses the words illness or disease, that speaks volumes.  When the employee doesn't even cite a condition, that speaks volumes. 

When guys like Kevin Love talk about their mental health, they use actual terms like anxiety and depression.  They talk about the struggle and detail what they have to do to cope with it and make it better for themselves.  They don't use vague phrases and references.  They don't bring additional attention on themselves by dressing flamboyantly or putting out strange vague statements.  And they certainly don't have a public dispute over compensation.

Everything out there leads to but one conclusion, Ben Simmons was unhappy and quit not that he has a mental health disease, condition, or illness.

There is so much wrong with this post, I don't want to address it all, so will just say your last sentence is completely wrong and if you had even a small amount of education on mental health issues you would know that.

I do.  I'm just not projecting my own personal things onto Simmons and am looking at the known facts objectively.  Simmons statements and the actions of the teams and people around him, do not lead to the conclusion that Ben Simmons has a mental illness, disease, or condition.

Other than the statements  of Simmons, his management and his coach, you mean?  And his actions of avoidance, first of shooting and then participating at all?

Odd take.

You mean vague statements like not mentally ready to play.  That isn't in any way indicative of a disease, illness, or condition. 

He "hated" his coworkers and boss, and didn't want to work with them.  So he quit.  That happens every day in all walks of life, it doesn't mean the person doing it has a mental health disease, illness, or condition.  It just means they didn't like their coworkers, boss, or job.  It just isn't as easy to do when you have a contract and play a professional sport.

It's been reported that he's receiving mental health treatment, and that he wanted to see a qualified doctor for it (which the Sixers didn't have on staff).  It could be a ruse, but at face value that's pretty clearly something other than disliking his co-workers.  Especially because it's still be cited as an issue despite being part of a totally different organization.

[Vermont Green]

Well, if he just accepted that outcome it would. But is going to court because he thinks he is owed the money. I do agree with your point that if the 76ers thought he had a mental illness that warranted disability they would have paid. But Simmons apparently disagrees.

This comment made me think.  One of the issues in this both for the Sixers and the Nets is that the teams did not seem to treat this as a health issue in the same way they would say a knee injury or a back injury.  Maybe part of the reason they are reluctant to do this is because then they would have to pay him.  I am not accusing the teams of anything here, you read the comments and the majority feel that Simmons should just suck it up and play, and the teams may honestly feel that way too.  But there also could be an element of precedent setting here.  A player can say my back is sore so I can't play, I am not physically ready to play, but should a player be able to say I don't feel mentally ready to play and still get paid?

I think the answer is that there should be a process or mechanism where a player can be open about mental health and under some reasonable limits, it should be accepted by the team the same as a sore back.  But that process would need to include the player being willing to seek treatment for the mental health issue.  I don't know what is going on with Simmons.  Based on what I have seen, I believe he very likely does have legitimate mental health issues.   But I also see that he may just be using that as a way to get what he wants.  That it was more just a hold out than it was a health issue.

I am not aware that Simmons has undergone any mental health treatment.  And I don't know if the team has recommended treatment and he refused.  If I was the team, that is where I would have started, months ago.  You want to get paid, you have to undergo treatment as a good faith effort to get back on the court.

[Goldstar88]

I'm skeptical at best of any of his mental health issues.  the timing of this issue coming to light was just too convenient in enabling him to sit out the season.  there may indeed be some physical issues with his back but after sitting out a whole year, and passing a team physical in order to be traded, I find those claims to be dubious as well.

yes, he deserves all the criticism coming his way for being physically and mentally soft as well as making people with real mental issues less believable in their plight.  would love nothing better than to see the league investigate him and possibly suspend him from the league for fraudulent collection of his pay.

Haven't we seen his mental health issues in real time?  Being afraid to shoot to the point where he's passing up dunks is a form of anxiety, right?

I don't equate the two.  his in game issue may be performance anxiety but that's while on the court and could simply be a matter of him paranoid/afraid of performing poorly in a public forum.   I consider a real mental health issue would impact his entire life, not just on the court.  his call for attention with his attire on the sidelines of the games leads me to believe his issues are not life related as much as game related. 

he very well may have a real mental issue that impacts his overall life but I very doubtful that his claims aren't a ploy to get paid while avoiding playing to earn it and suffer the slings and arrows that come with poor performance.

Interesting take.  I guess my response would be, how do you know to what degree his issues are affecting himself outside of his career?  And, the way somebody dresses says almost nothing about their mental health.  I've met all kinds of people who appear confident who are "faking it" and are semi-crippled on the inside.  I'v met many who dress flamboyantly because they're deflecting from something.

Ultimately, none of us know. Only Ben does and his inner circle. The timeline for his mental health issues being reported, which was right after he was told that he wouldn’t be paid by the 76ers for not showing up to practice and the fact that there were no reports of this in college or the other 4 years he played in the the NBA leads me to believe that he does not have chronic mental health issues. I do believe, however,  that he had a bad time with the 76ers after the playoff exit last Postseason and that it wasn’t good for his psyche to remain with that team.

[celticsclay]

Well, if he just accepted that outcome it would. But is going to court because he thinks he is owed the money. I do agree with your point that if the 76ers thought he had a mental illness that warranted disability they would have paid. But Simmons apparently disagrees.

This comment made me think.  One of the issues in this both for the Sixers and the Nets is that the teams did not seem to treat this as a health issue in the same way they would say a knee injury or a back injury.  Maybe part of the reason they are reluctant to do this is because then they would have to pay him.  I am not accusing the teams of anything here, you read the comments and the majority feel that Simmons should just suck it up and play, and the teams may honestly feel that way too.  But there also could be an element of precedent setting here.  A player can say my back is sore so I can't play, I am not physically ready to play, but should a player be able to say I don't feel mentally ready to play and still get paid?

I think the answer is that there should be a process or mechanism where a player can be open about mental health and under some reasonable limits, it should be accepted by the team the same as a sore back.  But that process would need to include the player being willing to seek treatment for the mental health issue.  I don't know what is going on with Simmons.  Based on what I have seen, I believe he very likely does have legitimate mental health issues.   But I also see that he may just be using that as a way to get what he wants.  That it was more just a hold out than it was a health issue.

I am not aware that Simmons has undergone any mental health treatment.  And I don't know if the team has recommended treatment and he refused.  If I was the team, that is where I would have started, months ago.  You want to get paid, you have to undergo treatment as a good faith effort to get back on the court.

I'm all for the NBA continuing to work on programs to reduce mental health stigma, increase their staff/resources for mental health and have ongoing open dialogue on it. Ironically, there was actually a really good example of dealing with mental health in Philly with eagles player Lane Johnson. https://www.philadelphiaeagles.com/news/lane-johnson-opens-up-candidly-about-his-battle-with-anxiety-disorder (I am pretty sure he was paid during this)

I guess part of the reason I have gotten invested in that, is I am worried that Ben Simmons actions, if they are not real and just a money grab, will really lose some progress that has been the last few years and may lead to sliding on the other end of the spectrum where stigma and dialogue around mental health issues are hurt. If it was honestly anybody else in the world besides the duo of Simmons and Paul I wouldn't have these doubts. I have zero doubts about Love, Klay Thompson, Demar Derozen, Keyon Dooling, Lane Johnson, even old nemisis Metta World Piece. I feel like what all these players have done across mental health was very brave and important. Also not to derail this, but here is a good article on the MLB players too.

https://majorleagueuniversity.com/baseball-and-mental-health-two-worlds-colliding/

[ozgod]

Celtics fans, Philly fans, Nets fans...  they're all dumping on Ben Simmons.  He's fragile, he's weak, the Nets got played, etc., etc.

And, frankly, I'm right there with those fans:  mental toughness is a necessary skill for an athlete.  I wouldn't want him on our team, just like I didn't want Kyrie on the team after he showed himself to be a giant distraction despite his talent.

But, is there another side of this?  Do we sympathize with Simmons due to his mental health issues?  Is this at all comparable to Simone Biles, who was generally lauded for walking away from her team in the middle of the Olympics?

I think both points you brought up are fair. Ben is a public figure. Sure we only see one side of him. But because we only see one side of him that's the side we make a judgment on. And because he's a professional athlete, performing a role that ultimately entertains people, we tend to have a more transactional view of him, as we do with a lot of athletes. Just think of the stick Gordon Hayward got on this forum for always being injured, even if it wasn't his fault, and even if he didn't have anywhere near as controversial an off court image as Ben does. For better or worse, people look at athletes that play for our sports teams with a "what have you done for me lately" attitude, and Ben hasn't done much of anything lately.

I think that early on, most fans probably had sympathy for Ben. I certainly did. I've suffered from social anxiety myself, which I suspect he suffers from too. He's a very talented guy and guys like that are easy to sympathize with initially. Unfortunately with all his well documented issues (quitting on LSU, quitting on the Sixers, choking in the playoffs, the whole overpromise and underdeliver with his supposed availability for Brooklyn, his $20m grievance after quitting on his team and playing hardball to get out of a legally binding contract, not to mention not bothering to improve his game after 5 years and learn to shoot even 10 feet from the basket, just to name a few) people's sympathy wells have just about run out. We want to empathize with the guy, but he's making it really hard. Look at other players in the league with mental issues - Love and DeRozan, nobody gets stuck into them. We empathize because it's a human thing to do. But Ben makes it really hard, because he comes across as lazy, selfish, self-centered and a drama queen who likes the high life.

If he does have mental issues he's best off just going away, taking a year off to get himself right, go back to Australia or wherever his family is, spend time with them, see a therapist and stay under the radar. Tell everyone he's decided to take a year off to fix himself. Like Kawhi is doing. Don't get photographed with his monthly Instagram thots that he seems to love hanging out with. Then ONLY come back when he is 100% ready. I think people - not just fans, but his teammates - would respect that more than this drama. Kind of like what Biles did. The difference between Biles and Simmons in my opinion is that while both bailed on their teams, Biles had built up enough credibility and positive vibes over the years because of what she had achieved for her country and her teams that her bailing was viewed much more sympathetically than Ben, who looks like he bailed just for himself with a "I could care less" attitude.

That's the bigger issue - how teammates, and players around the league, look at him. Fans will be fans. But Ben has to play with his peers, and he's rapidly eroding whatever goodwill he has. I can't imagine KD or the Nets players are all that impressed with the ongoing distraction he provided when they were trying to come back from a 2-0, then 3-0 deficit. Then you think of how many bridges he burned leaving Philly. Here's what Barkley had to say.

“I don’t care about the fans. They’re important and significant. I want to make that clear. Fans are important and significant,” Barkley said Sunday on TNT. “But let me tell you something: When the players don’t respect you, that’s a big deal. When the players say, ‘We can’t count on this dude.’ Like, fans, they’re gonna come and go when things are good and bad and I love the fans. But Ben is getting to the point now where your teammates are like, ‘Yo, man, does this dude wanna play basketball?’

“It clearly happened in Philly and now it’s happening (in Brooklyn). Like, ‘Yo, man, we need something. We need something.’ Remember they were saying, like, he’s going to give us 20 minutes? Yo, man, try to give me 20 minutes. If you go out there and you can’t play, we’re like, ‘Hey, man, thanks for trying.'”

https://nesn.com/2022/04/charles-barkley-raises-concern-after-nets-rule-out-ben-simmons-for-game-4/

It's easy to make fun of him, because he brought it on himself. But he needs to figure things out. It's one thing to p--- fans off. But when you lose cred with current and future teammates you have a big problem.

[Kernewek]

Lots of very good posts in this thread.

My 2c: I think Ben Simmons makes it very hard to root for Ben Simmons. But I hope that he is able to make a return to the court without too much duress.

[jambr380]

Are people here familiar with anxiety disorders?  I'm surprised that so many are saying "I'm not buying it".

I have an anxiety disorder.  There's a difference between day to day stress / anxiousness and a mental health diagnoses.  I've always been a high achiever.  I didn't really have a "panic attack" until college, and that was a one time thing.  But, my mother died when I was in my early 20s, and after a brief period of what was probably depression, I developed more debilitating anxiety.  An inability to control my emotions -- particularly anger -- and a feeling of overwhelm in situations that would be pretty normal to most people.  Mix that with some alcohol abuse, and I had some struggles in my personal relationships. 

Nobody really knew what I was going through, even the people who would see some instability from me.  But, it was messing with my life.  I'd avoid emails, blow off deadlines, etc.  Things that very much were "not me".  And then, long story short, I tried some medication and my life went back mostly to normal.  I'm lucky for that, because it allows me to able to enjoy a career, a family, etc.  But, there are moments when I still need to isolate myself. 

But, not everybody's anxiety -- or whatever they're struggling with -- can be treated successfully with meds.  Sometimes it takes therapy.  Sometimes the treatment takes years.  Sometimes people are in denial.

So, for Ben Simmons the human being, I expect that he's dealing with some real stuff, and I'm somewhat sympathetic to that.

But at the same time, when you're in the spotlight, and when you accept $160 million, and when endorsing products, I think it's fair to criticize, because all of those things are undermining your mental health.

And yet the Sixers didn't pay him.  And they know his medical issues, at least better than any of us.  They didn't pay him at all.  The Sixers pretty clearly did not believe that Simmons had a disease or illness.  They pretty clearly believe he was just unhappy and didn't want to be there.  We know this because THEY DID NOT PAY HIM.  When the employer doesn't believe the employee, that speaks volumes.  When the employee never uses the words illness or disease, that speaks volumes.  When the employee doesn't even cite a condition, that speaks volumes. 

When guys like Kevin Love talk about their mental health, they use actual terms like anxiety and depression.  They talk about the struggle and detail what they have to do to cope with it and make it better for themselves.  They don't use vague phrases and references.  They don't bring additional attention on themselves by dressing flamboyantly or putting out strange vague statements.  And they certainly don't have a public dispute over compensation.

Everything out there leads to but one conclusion, Ben Simmons was unhappy and quit not that he has a mental health disease, condition, or illness.

There is so much wrong with this post, I don't want to address it all, so will just say your last sentence is completely wrong and if you had even a small amount of education on mental health issues you would know that.

I do.  I'm just not projecting my own personal things onto Simmons and am looking at the known facts objectively.  Simmons statements and the actions of the teams and people around him, do not lead to the conclusion that Ben Simmons has a mental illness, disease, or condition.

Other than the statements  of Simmons, his management and his coach, you mean?  And his actions of avoidance, first of shooting and then participating at all?

Odd take.

You mean vague statements like not mentally ready to play.  That isn't in any way indicative of a disease, illness, or condition. 

He "hated" his coworkers and boss, and didn't want to work with them.  So he quit.  That happens every day in all walks of life, it doesn't mean the person doing it has a mental health disease, illness, or condition.  It just means they didn't like their coworkers, boss, or job.  It just isn't as easy to do when you have a contract and play a professional sport.

Leaving out all aspects of mental health or physical injuries (where I do think Ben likely has a claim), I find the bolded part interesting. The thing about NBA contracts is that you aren't allowed to quit. If he had been allowed to quit, he could have found a new franchise that wanted him and wanted to pay him in 2021-22 and beyond. Instead his entire salary for this year is essentially being withheld since the Sixers took so much time to trade him.

I realize this thread isn't necessarily about the financial aspects of Ben's deal, but it is certainly related since his prolonged absence has been so debated.

[Roy H.]

Celtics fans, Philly fans, Nets fans...  they're all dumping on Ben Simmons.  He's fragile, he's weak, the Nets got played, etc., etc.

And, frankly, I'm right there with those fans:  mental toughness is a necessary skill for an athlete.  I wouldn't want him on our team, just like I didn't want Kyrie on the team after he showed himself to be a giant distraction despite his talent.

But, is there another side of this?  Do we sympathize with Simmons due to his mental health issues?  Is this at all comparable to Simone Biles, who was generally lauded for walking away from her team in the middle of the Olympics?

I think both points you brought up are fair. Ben is a public figure. Sure we only see one side of him. But because we only see one side of him that's the side we make a judgment on. And because he's a professional athlete, performing a role that ultimately entertains people, we tend to have a more transactional view of him, as we do with a lot of athletes. Just think of the stick Gordon Hayward got on this forum for always being injured, even if it wasn't his fault, and even if he didn't have anywhere near as controversial an off court image as Ben does. For better or worse, people look at athletes that play for our sports teams with a "what have you done for me lately" attitude, and Ben hasn't done much of anything lately.

I think that early on, most fans probably had sympathy for Ben. I certainly did. I've suffered from social anxiety myself, which I suspect he suffers from too. He's a very talented guy and guys like that are easy to sympathize with initially. Unfortunately with all his well documented issues (quitting on LSU, quitting on the Sixers, choking in the playoffs, the whole overpromise and underdeliver with his supposed availability for Brooklyn, his $20m grievance after quitting on his team and playing hardball to get out of a legally binding contract, not to mention not bothering to improve his game after 5 years and learn to shoot even 10 feet from the basket, just to name a few) people's sympathy wells have just about run out. We want to empathize with the guy, but he's making it really hard. Look at other players in the league with mental issues - Love and DeRozan, nobody gets stuck into them. We empathize because it's a human thing to do. But Ben makes it really hard, because he comes across as lazy, selfish, self-centered and a drama queen who likes the high life.

If he does have mental issues he's best off just going away, taking a year off to get himself right, go back to Australia or wherever his family is, spend time with them, see a therapist and stay under the radar. Tell everyone he's decided to take a year off to fix himself. Like Kawhi is doing. Don't get photographed with his monthly Instagram thots that he seems to love hanging out with. Then ONLY come back when he is 100% ready. I think people - not just fans, but his teammates - would respect that more than this drama. Kind of like what Biles did. The difference between Biles and Simmons in my opinion is that while both bailed on their teams, Biles had built up enough credibility and positive vibes over the years because of what she had achieved for her country and her teams that her bailing was viewed much more sympathetically than Ben, who looks like he bailed just for himself with a "I could care less" attitude.

That's the bigger issue - how teammates, and players around the league, look at him. Fans will be fans. But Ben has to play with his peers, and he's rapidly eroding whatever goodwill he has. I can't imagine KD or the Nets players are all that impressed with the ongoing distraction he provided when they were trying to come back from a 2-0, then 3-0 deficit. Then you think of how many bridges he burned leaving Philly. Here's what Barkley had to say.

“I don’t care about the fans. They’re important and significant. I want to make that clear. Fans are important and significant,” Barkley said Sunday on TNT. “But let me tell you something: When the players don’t respect you, that’s a big deal. When the players say, ‘We can’t count on this dude.’ Like, fans, they’re gonna come and go when things are good and bad and I love the fans. But Ben is getting to the point now where your teammates are like, ‘Yo, man, does this dude wanna play basketball?’

“It clearly happened in Philly and now it’s happening (in Brooklyn). Like, ‘Yo, man, we need something. We need something.’ Remember they were saying, like, he’s going to give us 20 minutes? Yo, man, try to give me 20 minutes. If you go out there and you can’t play, we’re like, ‘Hey, man, thanks for trying.'”

https://nesn.com/2022/04/charles-barkley-raises-concern-after-nets-rule-out-ben-simmons-for-game-4/

It's easy to make fun of him, because he brought it on himself. But he needs to figure things out. It's one thing to p--- fans off. But when you lose cred with current and future teammates you have a big problem.

Has Charles commented on Kyrie at all?  I wonder, due the same credibility concerns matter there?  Arguably, he’s quit on three franchises.

[Birdman]

Yes, even Nets brass are fed up..dude getting paid for nothing

[Big333223]

Has there been any reporting on what Simmons is struggling with, exactly? Derozan and Love have talked about bouts with anxiety/depression but has Simmons or anyone talked about what it is he's going through besides the vague "mental struggles"?

[td450]

A question to throw out there:

Are there certain professions where mental health issues simply disqualify you from employment?

If the answer is yes, is professional sports one of them? It is a profession where the entire idea is for it to be a high stakes contest of physical and emotional pressure, one which eliminates 99.999% of the willing participants, and where revenues come from intense public patronage.

Is lacking the mental capacity any different than being 5'8 and unathletic? In other words, perfectly understandable, but sorry, too bad? How many supremely talented basketball players just couldn't handle the pressure and never got past the lower levels only because of their mental well being?

Can you really sign a max NBA contract and then say you need some space to sort things out while being paid? Or is it a special privilege won by a tiny number of guys who repeatedly handled the challenge?

[BringToughnessBack]

Mental issues are no joke and I know first hand watching someone I love have their life turned upside down by them.

He should step away from the game, and stop getting paid until he gets the help needed. Him collecting a paycheck while dealing this is beyond ludicrous. I would gain a lot more respect for his situation if he did the right thing.