Has Tatum elevated into top 10 player in the NBA status?

[Celtics2021]

At 24 to have as many 50 point games and as many 60 point games as Larry Bird is astounding.

It really is. I think Pierce hit 50 only one time in 19 seasons. I also feel like Tatum gets little to no credit for his defensive ability. He’s the 3rd best defensive player on the team and can guard the 1-4. At times, I think he’s more effective than Smart due to his height, length and athleticism.

To be fair to Pierce, during Pierce's solo prime, the whole league was putting up a lot fewer points, team's were averaging 95ppg.  In Bird's time, and right now with Tatum the league average is about 110ppg.

Pierce had a lot of 40+ point games that might have been 50+ in a different era.

Let's use this time to recognize Pierce scoring 45 in a game the Celtics won 77-58. 

Hah, Mark Blount played 21 minutes in that game for the Nuggets and scored 7 points with a 0 +/-.  A month later we traded for him, and I’m now left to wonder if the Nuggets ineptitude made Blount look good that day, thus leading to his regrettable acquisition.

[Goldstar88]

At 24 to have as many 50 point games and as many 60 point games as Larry Bird is astounding.

It really is. I think Pierce hit 50 only one time in 19 seasons. I also feel like Tatum gets little to no credit for his defensive ability. He’s the 3rd best defensive player on the team and can guard the 1-4. At times, I think he’s more effective than Smart due to his height, length and athleticism.

To be fair to Pierce, during Pierce's solo prime, the whole league was putting up a lot fewer points, team's were averaging 95ppg.  In Bird's time, and right now with Tatum the league average is about 110ppg.

Pierce had a lot of 40+ point games that might have been 50+ in a different era.

Let's use this time to recognize Pierce scoring 45 in a game the Celtics won 77-58. 

Yeah, not sure I buy that..So obviously some of these guys are all time greats, but Pierce is a HOFer himself.

Players in Pierces era that scored 50 or more points several times:

Kobe- 25 times
AI- 11 times
T-Mac- 4 times
Jamaal Crawford- 4 times
Gilbert Arenas- 3 times
Shaq- 3 times
David Robinson- 3 times

There are quite a few that have done it twice and numerous players have done it once, including Tony Delk.

Tatum is on another level as a scorer, IMO. I think he’s as good if not a better defender than Pierce already due to height, length and superior athleticism.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

Last 30 games he is top 5 for me. Averaging 27.4 pts, 7.9 rebs, 6.9 ast on 46.7 fg% with elite defense.

Where are you getting those numbers?  I don't think Tatum has averaged more than 5.0 assists in any month so far.  Typo?

He must have read it wrong.  Per NBA.com, in his last 30 JT has averaged 27.4/7.8/4.7

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/traditional/?sort=PTS&dir=-1&Season=2021-22&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&DateFrom=12%2F23%2F2021&DateTo=03%2F07%2F2022&TeamID=1610612738

I added everything up and divided by 30. Maybe I messed up somewhere but ESPN also had a graphic up today saying avg 8 rebs 7 ast which is more than What I got.

Just averaging the last 19 games, which is the last time he scored 50+, puts him at 29.4 ppg, 7.5 rpg, and 5.1 apg in only 35 mpg on 49/38/87 shooting splits. He's averaging 9.5 threes a game and 6.3 free throws a game in that stretch. Because of those numbers, he is averaging 1.41 points per shot. On top of that, his assist/turnover ratio is something like 2/1.

He's a truly great player.

Attempts?

Yes. Attempts. Sorry for confusion.

[aefgogreen]

Tatum with 54 points today to lead the Celtics to yet another win. Since the start of 2022 Tatum is putting up 26.6/4.8/7.9 numbers. The team is 21-8 in that time and have the best defense going away. And recently, Tatum has come alive leading the team to wins versus tough opponents like Philly, Atlanta, Memphis and Brooklyn.

Jayson just turned 24 and could be heading to his 3rd ECF if the team's excellent play continues.

I think if Tatum isn't at a top 10 player level right now, he isn't any lower than 12. The rest of the season should probably help us determine the true answer to the question but my green goggles are telling me he is top 10 right now.

The numbers are pretty close to his yearly numbers.  Are his shooting percentage splits different?  A similar question - who would you trade him for?  Taking age into account, the only one I'm sure of is Giannis.  Possibly Luka, Embid, or Jokic, but that's it.

[bdm860]

At 24 to have as many 50 point games and as many 60 point games as Larry Bird is astounding.

It really is. I think Pierce hit 50 only one time in 19 seasons. I also feel like Tatum gets little to no credit for his defensive ability. He’s the 3rd best defensive player on the team and can guard the 1-4. At times, I think he’s more effective than Smart due to his height, length and athleticism.

To be fair to Pierce, during Pierce's solo prime, the whole league was putting up a lot fewer points, team's were averaging 95ppg.  In Bird's time, and right now with Tatum the league average is about 110ppg.

Pierce had a lot of 40+ point games that might have been 50+ in a different era.

Let's use this time to recognize Pierce scoring 45 in a game the Celtics won 77-58. 

Yeah, not sure I buy that..So obviously some of these guys are all time greats, but Pierce is a HOFer himself.

Players in Pierces era that scored 50 or more points several times:

Kobe- 25 times
AI- 11 times
T-Mac- 4 times
Jamaal Crawford- 4 times
Gilbert Arenas- 3 times
Shaq- 3 times
David Robinson- 3 times

There are quite a few that have done it twice and numerous players have done it once, including Tony Delk.

Tatum is on another level as a scorer, IMO. I think he’s as good if not a better defender than Pierce already due to height, length and superior athleticism.

To be clear I'm not arguing Pierce is as good of a scorer or player as Tatum, but I just don't want to short change the man due to his era.

From '99-'07, the pre-Big 3 Pierce career.  There were 28 players who scored 50+ in the regular season 69 times.  That's over 706 possible games available for players.   That's 8 full seasons + a lockout 50.

From '18-now for Tatum's tenure, 36 players have score 50+ points 83 times, but only over ~374 games.  That's 2 full seasons + 2 Covid reduced seasons + this partial season.  More players, more 50 point games, in about half the games.  How do you explain that?

Just look at this trend of PPG by season, and how many times 50+ were scored and by how many unique players (hopefully you can read this, you all know how pasting numbers is here)

Season   50+ Point Games   Unique Players   League Average PPG
1999   0   0   91.6
2000   4   4   97.5
2001   9   7   94.8
2002   6   6   95.5
2003   7   4   95.1
2004   5   4   93.4
2005   8   6   97.2
2006   12   6   97
2007   18   6   98.7
2008   5   3   99.9
2009   11   7   100
2010   3   3   100.4
2011   2   2   99.6
2012   3   3   96.3
2013   3   3   98.1
2014   6   5   101
2015   8   6   100
2016   11   8   102.7
2017   14   10   105.6
2018   13   10   106.3
2019   22   13   111.2
2020   23   12   111.8
2021   14   10   112.1
2022   11   10   109.6

That spike in '06, '07, that's Kobe.

More players are able to score 50+ more times as the league average team scoring goes up.

[Roy H.]

Most surprising thing about the table above?  Jamal Crawford has more 50 point games than Shaq.

[slamtheking]

Most surprising thing about the table above?  Jamal Crawford has more 50 point games than Shaq.

never underestimate the desire of chuckers to rack up points when they're on a roll.  hence Kobe and AI's numbers

[bdm860]

Most surprising thing about the table above?  Jamal Crawford has more 50 point games than Shaq.

Without looking, I'd have to guess 3 pointers and free throws really help you out.

And I looked:

50 ('04): 6/11 for 3, 8/11 from the line
52 ('07): 8/10 for 3, 4/4 from the line
50 ('09): 5/8 for 3, 17/18 from the line
51 ('19): 7/13 for 3, 8/9 from the line


So was that the record for most time between first and last 50 point games?  Kobe matched it doing it in '01 and '16, and LeBron just passed it doing it in '05 and '22 which he did last week.  But man that's impressive, maybe we should start getting Crawford's plaque ready in Springfield 

[Goldstar88]

At 24 to have as many 50 point games and as many 60 point games as Larry Bird is astounding.

It really is. I think Pierce hit 50 only one time in 19 seasons. I also feel like Tatum gets little to no credit for his defensive ability. He’s the 3rd best defensive player on the team and can guard the 1-4. At times, I think he’s more effective than Smart due to his height, length and athleticism.

To be fair to Pierce, during Pierce's solo prime, the whole league was putting up a lot fewer points, team's were averaging 95ppg.  In Bird's time, and right now with Tatum the league average is about 110ppg.

Pierce had a lot of 40+ point games that might have been 50+ in a different era.

Let's use this time to recognize Pierce scoring 45 in a game the Celtics won 77-58. 

Yeah, not sure I buy that..So obviously some of these guys are all time greats, but Pierce is a HOFer himself.

Players in Pierces era that scored 50 or more points several times:

Kobe- 25 times
AI- 11 times
T-Mac- 4 times
Jamaal Crawford- 4 times
Gilbert Arenas- 3 times
Shaq- 3 times
David Robinson- 3 times

There are quite a few that have done it twice and numerous players have done it once, including Tony Delk.

Tatum is on another level as a scorer, IMO. I think he’s as good if not a better defender than Pierce already due to height, length and superior athleticism.

To be clear I'm not arguing Pierce is as good of a scorer or player as Tatum, but I just don't want to short change the man due to his era.

From '99-'07, the pre-Big 3 Pierce career.  There were 28 players who scored 50+ in the regular season 69 times.  That's over 706 possible games available for players.   That's 8 full seasons + a lockout 50.

From '18-now for Tatum's tenure, 36 players have score 50+ points 83 times, but only over ~374 games.  That's 2 full seasons + 2 Covid reduced seasons + this partial season.  More players, more 50 point games, in about half the games.  How do you explain that?

Just look at this trend of PPG by season, and how many times 50+ were scored and by how many unique players (hopefully you can read this, you all know how pasting numbers is here)

Season   50+ Point Games   Unique Players   League Average PPG
1999   0   0   91.6
2000   4   4   97.5
2001   9   7   94.8
2002   6   6   95.5
2003   7   4   95.1
2004   5   4   93.4
2005   8   6   97.2
2006   12   6   97
2007   18   6   98.7
2008   5   3   99.9
2009   11   7   100
2010   3   3   100.4
2011   2   2   99.6
2012   3   3   96.3
2013   3   3   98.1
2014   6   5   101
2015   8   6   100
2016   11   8   102.7
2017   14   10   105.6
2018   13   10   106.3
2019   22   13   111.2
2020   23   12   111.8
2021   14   10   112.1
2022   11   10   109.6

That spike in '06, '07, that's Kobe.

More players are able to score 50+ more times as the league average team scoring goes up.

I’m not disputing that the points scored per game by entire teams has increased, I just don’t think that Pierce is being short changed when several players from his Era were able to score 50 or more 3+ times in their career. Others were able to do it twice including: Dirk, Vince Carter, Allen Houston, Michael Redd, Jamaal Mashburn, and Antawn Jamison.

[CBS_Take a Report]

What is most impressive about Tatum’s rise in dominance is that he’s dominating the game and so many other facets including passing drawing double teams finding the open man in his defense has been outstanding! I mean he’s all defensive team at this pace if he can keep it up.

Sky is the limit for this kid. We are a contender now.

[Moranis]

At 24 to have as many 50 point games and as many 60 point games as Larry Bird is astounding.

It really is. I think Pierce hit 50 only one time in 19 seasons. I also feel like Tatum gets little to no credit for his defensive ability. He’s the 3rd best defensive player on the team and can guard the 1-4. At times, I think he’s more effective than Smart due to his height, length and athleticism.

To be fair to Pierce, during Pierce's solo prime, the whole league was putting up a lot fewer points, team's were averaging 95ppg.  In Bird's time, and right now with Tatum the league average is about 110ppg.

Pierce had a lot of 40+ point games that might have been 50+ in a different era.

Let's use this time to recognize Pierce scoring 45 in a game the Celtics won 77-58. 

Yeah, not sure I buy that..So obviously some of these guys are all time greats, but Pierce is a HOFer himself.

Players in Pierces era that scored 50 or more points several times:

Kobe- 25 times
AI- 11 times
T-Mac- 4 times
Jamaal Crawford- 4 times
Gilbert Arenas- 3 times
Shaq- 3 times
David Robinson- 3 times

There are quite a few that have done it twice and numerous players have done it once, including Tony Delk.

Tatum is on another level as a scorer, IMO. I think he’s as good if not a better defender than Pierce already due to height, length and superior athleticism.

To be clear I'm not arguing Pierce is as good of a scorer or player as Tatum, but I just don't want to short change the man due to his era.

From '99-'07, the pre-Big 3 Pierce career.  There were 28 players who scored 50+ in the regular season 69 times.  That's over 706 possible games available for players.   That's 8 full seasons + a lockout 50.

From '18-now for Tatum's tenure, 36 players have score 50+ points 83 times, but only over ~374 games.  That's 2 full seasons + 2 Covid reduced seasons + this partial season.  More players, more 50 point games, in about half the games.  How do you explain that?

Just look at this trend of PPG by season, and how many times 50+ were scored and by how many unique players (hopefully you can read this, you all know how pasting numbers is here)

Season   50+ Point Games   Unique Players   League Average PPG
1999   0   0   91.6
2000   4   4   97.5
2001   9   7   94.8
2002   6   6   95.5
2003   7   4   95.1
2004   5   4   93.4
2005   8   6   97.2
2006   12   6   97
2007   18   6   98.7
2008   5   3   99.9
2009   11   7   100
2010   3   3   100.4
2011   2   2   99.6
2012   3   3   96.3
2013   3   3   98.1
2014   6   5   101
2015   8   6   100
2016   11   8   102.7
2017   14   10   105.6
2018   13   10   106.3
2019   22   13   111.2
2020   23   12   111.8
2021   14   10   112.1
2022   11   10   109.6

That spike in '06, '07, that's Kobe.

More players are able to score 50+ more times as the league average team scoring goes up.

I’m not disputing that the points scored per game by entire teams has increased, I just don’t think that Pierce is being short changed when several players from his Era were able to score 50 or more 3+ times in their career. Others were able to do it twice including: Dirk, Vince Carter, Allen Houston, Michael Redd, Jamaal Mashburn, and Antawn Jamison.

Of course he was.  The slower pace of the game absolutely matters in that discussion

[ETNCeltics]

Tatum just won player of the week. That's the 6th time in just over 2 years. The most in the NBA since he won his first in February of 2020.

[gouki88]

Tatum just won player of the week. That's the 6th time in just over 2 years. The most in the NBA since he won his first in February of 2020.

A week of 41/6/5 and going 3-0 is pretty hard to argue with!

[RockinRyA]

At 24 to have as many 50 point games and as many 60 point games as Larry Bird is astounding.

It really is. I think Pierce hit 50 only one time in 19 seasons. I also feel like Tatum gets little to no credit for his defensive ability. He’s the 3rd best defensive player on the team and can guard the 1-4. At times, I think he’s more effective than Smart due to his height, length and athleticism.

To be fair to Pierce, during Pierce's solo prime, the whole league was putting up a lot fewer points, team's were averaging 95ppg.  In Bird's time, and right now with Tatum the league average is about 110ppg.

Pierce had a lot of 40+ point games that might have been 50+ in a different era.

Let's use this time to recognize Pierce scoring 45 in a game the Celtics won 77-58. 

Yeah, not sure I buy that..So obviously some of these guys are all time greats, but Pierce is a HOFer himself.

Players in Pierces era that scored 50 or more points several times:

Kobe- 25 times
AI- 11 times
T-Mac- 4 times
Jamaal Crawford- 4 times
Gilbert Arenas- 3 times
Shaq- 3 times
David Robinson- 3 times

There are quite a few that have done it twice and numerous players have done it once, including Tony Delk.

Tatum is on another level as a scorer, IMO. I think he’s as good if not a better defender than Pierce already due to height, length and superior athleticism.

To be clear I'm not arguing Pierce is as good of a scorer or player as Tatum, but I just don't want to short change the man due to his era.

From '99-'07, the pre-Big 3 Pierce career.  There were 28 players who scored 50+ in the regular season 69 times.  That's over 706 possible games available for players.   That's 8 full seasons + a lockout 50.

From '18-now for Tatum's tenure, 36 players have score 50+ points 83 times, but only over ~374 games.  That's 2 full seasons + 2 Covid reduced seasons + this partial season.  More players, more 50 point games, in about half the games.  How do you explain that?

Just look at this trend of PPG by season, and how many times 50+ were scored and by how many unique players (hopefully you can read this, you all know how pasting numbers is here)

Season   50+ Point Games   Unique Players   League Average PPG
1999   0   0   91.6
2000   4   4   97.5
2001   9   7   94.8
2002   6   6   95.5
2003   7   4   95.1
2004   5   4   93.4
2005   8   6   97.2
2006   12   6   97
2007   18   6   98.7
2008   5   3   99.9
2009   11   7   100
2010   3   3   100.4
2011   2   2   99.6
2012   3   3   96.3
2013   3   3   98.1
2014   6   5   101
2015   8   6   100
2016   11   8   102.7
2017   14   10   105.6
2018   13   10   106.3
2019   22   13   111.2
2020   23   12   111.8
2021   14   10   112.1
2022   11   10   109.6

That spike in '06, '07, that's Kobe.

More players are able to score 50+ more times as the league average team scoring goes up.

I’m not disputing that the points scored per game by entire teams has increased, I just don’t think that Pierce is being short changed when several players from his Era were able to score 50 or more 3+ times in their career. Others were able to do it twice including: Dirk, Vince Carter, Allen Houston, Michael Redd, Jamaal Mashburn, and Antawn Jamison.

Of course he was.  The slower pace of the game absolutely matters in that discussion

im curious what the result is if we used points per possession. it will still be skewed towards modern game as there are more threes but it will eliminate the pace problem.

[GreenlyGreeny]

He’s only 24 and has tied Bird’s record of most 50 point regular season games. Clearly he’s in the top ten now. It’s a question of whether he will be top five after the playoffs.