Author Topic: White vs Richardson  (Read 13161 times)

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Re: White vs Richardson
« Reply #15 on: February 26, 2022, 09:50:06 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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By the way, the subtle sleight of hand is nice. Comparison Josh Richardson's full season to White's 5 games with the Cs is a bit crafty if you want to take a dig at White.

How about we compare both players in the brief stint with their new teams?

Richardson's stats with the Spurs?

1 game played. 3 DNP coach's decision. 3ppg. 2apg.

But that doesn't quite fit the narrative that you are trying to advance.

I don't know what his motivation is, but only counting his time in Boston does slant things.  That said, the season numbers don't change things remarkably:

https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1=whitede01&p1yrfrom=2022&player_id2=richajo01&p2yrfrom=2022

I think it's a fair question to ask who has been a better player, particularly at their salary.  The eye test tells me White is better:  he's more aggressive, he's a significantly better passer.  But, the stats are fairly close, brought down by White's poor shooting. 

I think it's fair to say that if White's play doesn't improve, the Celtics probably made a mistake with the price they paid.  But, I also think it's unfair to assume that his play won't improve.



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Re: White vs Richardson
« Reply #16 on: February 26, 2022, 09:51:16 PM »

Offline KG Living Legend

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 Talk about Overreacting.  One game Prichard was on fire so Coach plays the hot hand. Anyone have a problem with Prichard getting to shine for one game?

 We are a deeper more offensively talented team with White and Prichard. White can go off for 20 to 30 points in a playoff game. More importantly he fits the mold and the ball doesn't stick in his hands like Schroder.  Which can be very bad for this team changing their identity.

 The shift we have seen this year has been nothing short of a miracle.  Remember we traded for Josh and extended him with the idea we could move him for an asset.  That's what we did.

 Denis was gone no matter what.  Nobody can dispute that.  Overpay.  Yes. PG position is looking great for the next three years. Brad can now look for that hybrid forward we need, and White could be a valuable trade chip in any deal.

Re: White vs Richardson
« Reply #17 on: February 26, 2022, 09:56:17 PM »

Offline seancally

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Identity, stability, role, style. White fits all of those things with this team. The numbers favor White but it’s not just about the numbers.
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Re: White vs Richardson
« Reply #18 on: February 26, 2022, 10:42:47 PM »

Offline Goldstar88

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By the way, the subtle sleight of hand is nice. Comparison Josh Richardson's full season to White's 5 games with the Cs is a bit crafty if you want to take a dig at White.

How about we compare both players in the brief stint with their new teams?

Richardson's stats with the Spurs?

1 game played. 3 DNP coach's decision. 3ppg. 2apg.

But that doesn't quite fit the narrative that you are trying to advance.

It’s not a slight. I’m assessing what I’ve seen thus far and I’m just not sure he’s that much of an upgrade. His shooting wasn’t good this year in San Antonio and it’s been worse thus far in Boston. He’s definitely a better passer, but that’s the only real edge that I’ve seen from him. Not sure what you are getting so worked up for..
« Last Edit: February 26, 2022, 10:51:29 PM by Goldstar88 »
Quoting Nick from the now locked Ime thread:
Quote
At some point you have to blame the performance on the court on the players on the court. Every loss is not the coach's fault and every win isn't because of the players.

Re: White vs Richardson
« Reply #19 on: February 26, 2022, 10:50:47 PM »

Offline DefenseWinsChamps

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By the way, the subtle sleight of hand is nice. Comparison Josh Richardson's full season to White's 5 games with the Cs is a bit crafty if you want to take a dig at White.

How about we compare both players in the brief stint with their new teams?

Richardson's stats with the Spurs?

1 game played. 3 DNP coach's decision. 3ppg. 2apg.

But that doesn't quite fit the narrative that you are trying to advance.

It’s not a slight. I’m assessing what I’ve seen thus far and I’m just not sure he’s that much of an upgrade. His shooting wasn’t good this year in San Antonio and it’s been worse thus far in Boston. He’s definitely a better passer, but that’s the only real edge that I’ve seen. Not sure what you are getting so worked up for.

The inconsistency in your argumentation and the unnecessary negativity

Re: White vs Richardson
« Reply #20 on: February 26, 2022, 10:58:36 PM »

Offline #1P4P

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Comparisons like this seem to forget that Richardson is having a career shooting year, but his counting stats have declined for like 4 straight seasons.

Meanwhile, White's general numbers continue to improve while he is having his worst shooting year of his career.

It's just very obvious that Brad Stevens traded for Richardson while his value was at an all-time low (arguably a negative value contract), rehabbed his value, and then traded him for a better player.

And White's passing is lightyears ahead of Richardson. He doesn't just get assists, he stirs the offense, cuts off-ball (Richardson was meh at this), and gets hockey assists. Richardson was serviceable with the ball in his hands.

Oh, and White is better defensively than Richardson. He is much better off-ball as a helpside defender and he's better on-ball against guards. Richardson might have guarded up a little better than White, but that is very minimal as I've watched him.

Bingo!

White’s decisiveness is valuable especially to this team. He immediately passes, shoots, or makes the move to pass or shoot. When he does dribble, he gets into the paint with ease and shoots a high % FGA, passes, or dribbles out.

On a team that stopped the ball as often as this one did, he’s highly valuable and translates well to high pressure situations, although difficult to measure by traditional/individual stats.

I was very supportive of the Richardson signing and extension, and preferred to keep JR pre-trade, but I was similarly vocal about adding a PG with his attributes (and he’s a better defender than my options of VanVleet or Brunson). We got White for less assets than VanVleet without having to breakup the core that has been the best 5-player lineup in the NBA!

Re: White vs Richardson
« Reply #21 on: February 26, 2022, 11:04:26 PM »

Offline Goldstar88

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By the way, the subtle sleight of hand is nice. Comparison Josh Richardson's full season to White's 5 games with the Cs is a bit crafty if you want to take a dig at White.

How about we compare both players in the brief stint with their new teams?

Richardson's stats with the Spurs?

1 game played. 3 DNP coach's decision. 3ppg. 2apg.

But that doesn't quite fit the narrative that you are trying to advance.

It’s not a slight. I’m assessing what I’ve seen thus far and I’m just not sure he’s that much of an upgrade. His shooting wasn’t good this year in San Antonio and it’s been worse thus far in Boston. He’s definitely a better passer, but that’s the only real edge that I’ve seen. Not sure what you are getting so worked up for.

The inconsistency in your argumentation and the unnecessary negativity

Which part of the post was inconsistent and/or negative?
Quoting Nick from the now locked Ime thread:
Quote
At some point you have to blame the performance on the court on the players on the court. Every loss is not the coach's fault and every win isn't because of the players.

Re: White vs Richardson
« Reply #22 on: February 26, 2022, 11:42:33 PM »

Offline gouki88

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By the way, the subtle sleight of hand is nice. Comparison Josh Richardson's full season to White's 5 games with the Cs is a bit crafty if you want to take a dig at White.

How about we compare both players in the brief stint with their new teams?

Richardson's stats with the Spurs?

1 game played. 3 DNP coach's decision. 3ppg. 2apg.

But that doesn't quite fit the narrative that you are trying to advance.

It’s not a slight. I’m assessing what I’ve seen thus far and I’m just not sure he’s that much of an upgrade. His shooting wasn’t good this year in San Antonio and it’s been worse thus far in Boston. He’s definitely a better passer, but that’s the only real edge that I’ve seen. Not sure what you are getting so worked up for.

The inconsistency in your argumentation and the unnecessary negativity

Which part of the post was inconsistent and/or negative?
Misusing stats like that is pretty inconsistent, I'd argue.

If you compare Richardson's first 5 games with us (with a preseason) to White's first 5 games it is pretty clear how much more impactful White can be.
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Re: White vs Richardson
« Reply #23 on: February 26, 2022, 11:57:30 PM »

Offline Goldstar88

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By the way, the subtle sleight of hand is nice. Comparison Josh Richardson's full season to White's 5 games with the Cs is a bit crafty if you want to take a dig at White.

How about we compare both players in the brief stint with their new teams?

Richardson's stats with the Spurs?

1 game played. 3 DNP coach's decision. 3ppg. 2apg.

But that doesn't quite fit the narrative that you are trying to advance.

It’s not a slight. I’m assessing what I’ve seen thus far and I’m just not sure he’s that much of an upgrade. His shooting wasn’t good this year in San Antonio and it’s been worse thus far in Boston. He’s definitely a better passer, but that’s the only real edge that I’ve seen. Not sure what you are getting so worked up for.

The inconsistency in your argumentation and the unnecessary negativity

Which part of the post was inconsistent and/or negative?
Misusing stats like that is pretty inconsistent, I'd argue.

If you compare Richardson's first 5 games with us (with a preseason) to White's first 5 games it is pretty clear how much more impactful White can be.

His numbers for the C’s are not much different than what he was doing while on the Spurs this season, except the shooting has been worse. So if you want to compare those figures, that doesn’t really change things. He’s only played 5 games for the C’s, so It was an assessment of what I’ve seen from him so far.
Quoting Nick from the now locked Ime thread:
Quote
At some point you have to blame the performance on the court on the players on the court. Every loss is not the coach's fault and every win isn't because of the players.

Re: White vs Richardson
« Reply #24 on: February 27, 2022, 12:35:40 AM »

Offline showtime

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By the way, the subtle sleight of hand is nice. Comparison Josh Richardson's full season to White's 5 games with the Cs is a bit crafty if you want to take a dig at White.

How about we compare both players in the brief stint with their new teams?

Richardson's stats with the Spurs?

1 game played. 3 DNP coach's decision. 3ppg. 2apg.

But that doesn't quite fit the narrative that you are trying to advance.

It’s not a slight. I’m assessing what I’ve seen thus far and I’m just not sure he’s that much of an upgrade. His shooting wasn’t good this year in San Antonio and it’s been worse thus far in Boston. He’s definitely a better passer, but that’s the only real edge that I’ve seen. Not sure what you are getting so worked up for.

The inconsistency in your argumentation and the unnecessary negativity

Which part of the post was inconsistent and/or negative?
Misusing stats like that is pretty inconsistent, I'd argue.

If you compare Richardson's first 5 games with us (with a preseason) to White's first 5 games it is pretty clear how much more impactful White can be.

His numbers for the C’s are not much different than what he was doing while on the Spurs this season, except the shooting has been worse. So if you want to compare those figures, that doesn’t really change things. He’s only played 5 games for the C’s, so It was an assessment of what I’ve seen from him so far.
Ime must see what you see, his minutes are going down, not up!

Re: White vs Richardson
« Reply #25 on: February 27, 2022, 12:41:22 AM »

Offline nickagneta

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By the way, the subtle sleight of hand is nice. Comparison Josh Richardson's full season to White's 5 games with the Cs is a bit crafty if you want to take a dig at White.

How about we compare both players in the brief stint with their new teams?

Richardson's stats with the Spurs?

1 game played. 3 DNP coach's decision. 3ppg. 2apg.

But that doesn't quite fit the narrative that you are trying to advance.

It’s not a slight. I’m assessing what I’ve seen thus far and I’m just not sure he’s that much of an upgrade. His shooting wasn’t good this year in San Antonio and it’s been worse thus far in Boston. He’s definitely a better passer, but that’s the only real edge that I’ve seen. Not sure what you are getting so worked up for.

The inconsistency in your argumentation and the unnecessary negativity

Which part of the post was inconsistent and/or negative?
Misusing stats like that is pretty inconsistent, I'd argue.

If you compare Richardson's first 5 games with us (with a preseason) to White's first 5 games it is pretty clear how much more impactful White can be.

His numbers for the C’s are not much different than what he was doing while on the Spurs this season, except the shooting has been worse. So if you want to compare those figures, that doesn’t really change things. He’s only played 5 games for the C’s, so It was an assessment of what I’ve seen from him so far.
The disingenuous comparison is based on actual good sample size vs ridiculously small sample size.

For example, let's change the outcome of 5 shots for both players. Let's say both made 5 of their three pointers they missed.

Richardson's numbers barely move but White's suddenly rocket to 48% from the field, 41% from three and leaps his PPG 3 points.

Suddenly you probably have a very different opinion.

Based on the outcome of just 5 SHOTS! Which is the difference of one bad shooting game. He went 1-6 from three in the game vs Detroit. If he goes 6-6......there you go, guy is shooting amazing.

5 SHOTS. ONE GAME. That's what your entire opinion is based on. 5 shots in one game
« Last Edit: February 27, 2022, 12:49:50 AM by nickagneta »

Re: White vs Richardson
« Reply #26 on: February 27, 2022, 01:05:14 AM »

Offline Goldstar88

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By the way, the subtle sleight of hand is nice. Comparison Josh Richardson's full season to White's 5 games with the Cs is a bit crafty if you want to take a dig at White.

How about we compare both players in the brief stint with their new teams?

Richardson's stats with the Spurs?

1 game played. 3 DNP coach's decision. 3ppg. 2apg.

But that doesn't quite fit the narrative that you are trying to advance.

It’s not a slight. I’m assessing what I’ve seen thus far and I’m just not sure he’s that much of an upgrade. His shooting wasn’t good this year in San Antonio and it’s been worse thus far in Boston. He’s definitely a better passer, but that’s the only real edge that I’ve seen. Not sure what you are getting so worked up for.

The inconsistency in your argumentation and the unnecessary negativity

Which part of the post was inconsistent and/or negative?
Misusing stats like that is pretty inconsistent, I'd argue.

If you compare Richardson's first 5 games with us (with a preseason) to White's first 5 games it is pretty clear how much more impactful White can be.

His numbers for the C’s are not much different than what he was doing while on the Spurs this season, except the shooting has been worse. So if you want to compare those figures, that doesn’t really change things. He’s only played 5 games for the C’s, so It was an assessment of what I’ve seen from him so far.
The disingenuous comparison is based on actual good sample size vs ridiculously small sample size.

For example, let's change the outcome of 5 shots for both players. Let's say both made 5 of their three pointers they missed.

Richardson's numbers barely move but White's suddenly rocket to 48% from the field, 41% from three and leaps his PPG 3 points.

Suddenly you probably have a very different opinion.

Based on the outcome of just 5 SHOTS! Which is the difference of one bad shooting game. He went 1-6 from three in the game vs Detroit. If he goes 6-6......there you go, guy is shooting amazing.

5 SHOTS. ONE GAME. That's what your entire opinion is based on. 5 shots in one game

Is playing 54 games and shooting 30% from 3pt a large enough sample size? Because that’s where he’s at for the season. He’s 42% from the field. League average is 45%. He’s not a good shooter, I’m hoping he can just be average.
Quoting Nick from the now locked Ime thread:
Quote
At some point you have to blame the performance on the court on the players on the court. Every loss is not the coach's fault and every win isn't because of the players.

Re: White vs Richardson
« Reply #27 on: February 27, 2022, 02:00:05 AM »

Offline cltc5

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Lol we’re really comparing the two?

Re: White vs Richardson
« Reply #28 on: February 27, 2022, 03:19:15 AM »

Offline gouki88

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By the way, the subtle sleight of hand is nice. Comparison Josh Richardson's full season to White's 5 games with the Cs is a bit crafty if you want to take a dig at White.

How about we compare both players in the brief stint with their new teams?

Richardson's stats with the Spurs?

1 game played. 3 DNP coach's decision. 3ppg. 2apg.

But that doesn't quite fit the narrative that you are trying to advance.

It’s not a slight. I’m assessing what I’ve seen thus far and I’m just not sure he’s that much of an upgrade. His shooting wasn’t good this year in San Antonio and it’s been worse thus far in Boston. He’s definitely a better passer, but that’s the only real edge that I’ve seen. Not sure what you are getting so worked up for.

The inconsistency in your argumentation and the unnecessary negativity

Which part of the post was inconsistent and/or negative?
Misusing stats like that is pretty inconsistent, I'd argue.

If you compare Richardson's first 5 games with us (with a preseason) to White's first 5 games it is pretty clear how much more impactful White can be.

His numbers for the C’s are not much different than what he was doing while on the Spurs this season, except the shooting has been worse. So if you want to compare those figures, that doesn’t really change things. He’s only played 5 games for the C’s, so It was an assessment of what I’ve seen from him so far.
The disingenuous comparison is based on actual good sample size vs ridiculously small sample size.

For example, let's change the outcome of 5 shots for both players. Let's say both made 5 of their three pointers they missed.

Richardson's numbers barely move but White's suddenly rocket to 48% from the field, 41% from three and leaps his PPG 3 points.

Suddenly you probably have a very different opinion.

Based on the outcome of just 5 SHOTS! Which is the difference of one bad shooting game. He went 1-6 from three in the game vs Detroit. If he goes 6-6......there you go, guy is shooting amazing.

5 SHOTS. ONE GAME. That's what your entire opinion is based on. 5 shots in one game

Is playing 54 games and shooting 30% from 3pt a large enough sample size? Because that’s where he’s at for the season. He’s 42% from the field. League average is 45%. He’s not a good shooter, I’m hoping he can just be average.
His shooting has been poor, undeniably. But he brings so much more than Richardson with his passing, defensive versatility, and ability to play multiple roles on offence
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PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: White vs Richardson
« Reply #29 on: February 27, 2022, 05:37:11 AM »

Offline nickagneta

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By the way, the subtle sleight of hand is nice. Comparison Josh Richardson's full season to White's 5 games with the Cs is a bit crafty if you want to take a dig at White.

How about we compare both players in the brief stint with their new teams?

Richardson's stats with the Spurs?

1 game played. 3 DNP coach's decision. 3ppg. 2apg.

But that doesn't quite fit the narrative that you are trying to advance.

It’s not a slight. I’m assessing what I’ve seen thus far and I’m just not sure he’s that much of an upgrade. His shooting wasn’t good this year in San Antonio and it’s been worse thus far in Boston. He’s definitely a better passer, but that’s the only real edge that I’ve seen. Not sure what you are getting so worked up for.

The inconsistency in your argumentation and the unnecessary negativity

Which part of the post was inconsistent and/or negative?
Misusing stats like that is pretty inconsistent, I'd argue.

If you compare Richardson's first 5 games with us (with a preseason) to White's first 5 games it is pretty clear how much more impactful White can be.

His numbers for the C’s are not much different than what he was doing while on the Spurs this season, except the shooting has been worse. So if you want to compare those figures, that doesn’t really change things. He’s only played 5 games for the C’s, so It was an assessment of what I’ve seen from him so far.
The disingenuous comparison is based on actual good sample size vs ridiculously small sample size.

For example, let's change the outcome of 5 shots for both players. Let's say both made 5 of their three pointers they missed.

Richardson's numbers barely move but White's suddenly rocket to 48% from the field, 41% from three and leaps his PPG 3 points.

Suddenly you probably have a very different opinion.

Based on the outcome of just 5 SHOTS! Which is the difference of one bad shooting game. He went 1-6 from three in the game vs Detroit. If he goes 6-6......there you go, guy is shooting amazing.

5 SHOTS. ONE GAME. That's what your entire opinion is based on. 5 shots in one game

Is playing 54 games and shooting 30% from 3pt a large enough sample size? Because that’s where he’s at for the season. He’s 42% from the field. League average is 45%. He’s not a good shooter, I’m hoping he can just be average.
Compare what you want. I, like other, are just pointing out the unfairness and disingenuousness of the first comparison and why it is so bad.

But if you go that, why stop on this year when you can compare his whole career. He's a career average three pointer prior to this year...35.7%.  And this has been a down 3 point shooting year for a lot of three point shooting guys, including Brown and Tatum.

We brought the kid in for the long term. How about we wait to see how he pans out over the long term. I mean, look how much everyone hated Udoka until his sample size got bigger.