Celtics trade grades?

[todd_days_41]

Just read this, it adds to my argument above:

https://www.celticsblog.com/2022/2/11/22929311/sorry-folks-derrick-white-trade-disaster-josh-richardson-jayson-tatum-jaylen-brown-romeo-langford

By his own admission, it's a biased hit piece.  Don't get too bummed.

I get that it's a hit piece... but nonetheless, a number of the statements are simple fact.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

Just read this, it adds to my argument above:

https://www.celticsblog.com/2022/2/11/22929311/sorry-folks-derrick-white-trade-disaster-josh-richardson-jayson-tatum-jaylen-brown-romeo-langford

By his own admission, it's a biased hit piece.  Don't get too bummed.

I get that it's a hit piece... but nonetheless, a number of the statements are simple fact.

Again, from my response on the last page, stating some facts without stating others is still intellectually dishonest. You can frame any narrative (no matter how absurd) if you pick and choose a few cherry-picked stats.

[Celtics2021]

Just read this, it adds to my argument above:

https://www.celticsblog.com/2022/2/11/22929311/sorry-folks-derrick-white-trade-disaster-josh-richardson-jayson-tatum-jaylen-brown-romeo-langford

As an alternative, follow this link, click on full strength rating to sort by that category.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2022-nba-predictions/

That's as silly as the CB article, lol.

I think our current odds are around 500:1, so I hope the staff of 538 is laying some serious money down if they think our odds are really around 6:1.

I think they're 50:1, not 500:1, but I wouldn't be surprised if a few of them are doing just that.  I also wouldn't be surprised to see the C's odds move a lot closer to 6:1 in the next week or so.

Also, odds aren't perfect.  The Lakers are 25:1, because there are a sufficient number of people who will bet on the Lakers even though it is a losing bet.  In no way should the Lakers have the same line as the Grizzlies or Bulls, or be ahead of the Celtics and Raptors.

[Ilikesports17]

Our bigs are still the weakness.  I like RWill as a starting big but he is limited in terms of scoring,  ball handling, general skill.  He is a good passer but because of his other offensive limitations, he doesn't get that much opportunity to pass.  If he can keep dunking, playing D, rebounding, I am fine with him.  We just need to pair him with something better than Theis and GWill (assuming Horford is not in the future plans).

A defensive wrecking back shooting 74% from the field at the C position? Of all the weaknesses the Cs have, Robert Williams ain't high on the list. And Grant and Horford are also excellent defenders, and fine in their roles

As for weaknesses....

I'd start with: We now have exactly one rotational guard and / or wing who is shooting over 32.8% from three, and that gentlemen is shooting less than 35%.

Oh and: The team has zero point guards on the roster.

Also: The team had very little depth before the deadline, and now has none.

Derick White is a point guard. He plays the 2 because Murray is better. But White’s best position is point guard.

Smart is also a pretty capable point guard.

[Vermont Green]

Our bigs are still the weakness.  I like RWill as a starting big but he is limited in terms of scoring,  ball handling, general skill.  He is a good passer but because of his other offensive limitations, he doesn't get that much opportunity to pass.  If he can keep dunking, playing D, rebounding, I am fine with him.  We just need to pair him with something better than Theis and GWill (assuming Horford is not in the future plans).

A defensive wrecking back shooting 74% from the field at the C position? Of all the weaknesses the Cs have, Robert Williams ain't high on the list. And Grant and Horford are also excellent defenders, and fine in their roles

As for weaknesses....

I'd start with: We now have exactly one rotational guard and / or wing who is shooting over 32.8% from three, and that gentlemen is shooting less than 35%.

Oh and: The team has zero point guards on the roster.

Also: The team had very little depth before the deadline, and now has none.

I think you misread my post.  I specifically said that I like RWill as a starter.  He is very limited offensively though.  All he can do is dunk.  He dunks really well but you don't need to cover him.  His man can just wait at the hoop and clog the lane.  If we had a skilled PF who can shoot some to pair with him, it would make a big difference.  Instead we have aging Horford (who has been better than I expected), undersized GWill, and now Theis.

I don't see PG as a problem at all.  The team plays very well with Smart at PG.  I am interested to see if White is our back up PG and how well he does in that role.  I am guessing better than Schroder so we may be getting even better at PG overall.  I guess you see Smart as playing out of position?  He is kind of a combo guard but to me in a good way.  More versatile than most pure PGs.  I don't share your concern there at all.  Since Smart has come back, the PG position has been very good and now it likely just got better.

We have elite wings.  Tatum is career 38% (admittedly down this year) and Brown is career 37% (also a little down from that this year).  I see our wings as our greatest strength, not a weakness.  Our first wing off the bench had been Richardson.  Was there a better 3 wing rotation in the entire league?  Now it isn't clear who our bench wing will be.  That is an area to improve but collectively, our wings are still really good.   Brown and Tatum average combined 50 pts per game.  How many teams get that out of their top 2 wings?  How is this a problem for the team?

I guess we kind of agree that we need some shooting but I think we need a starting level big who can shoot.  That to me is the one move that would have the biggest impact.  Sure, GWill is fine as an undersized PF off the bench but if he is your starting PF, that is a weakness.  Horford or Theis are not quite what we need either, to play next to a dunk only, defensive center.

[SparzWizard]

Maybe now everyone who voted B's, C's, D's, and F's and Incompletes will change to A's after Derrick White's performance tonight? 

[Vermont Green]

Maybe now everyone who voted B's, C's, D's, and F's and Incompletes will change to A's after Derrick White's performance tonight? 

I was at about a B-.  After what I saw from White last night, I would tick that up to a B I guess. 

We still did overpay for White.  In the long run, that may not matter, but the grade does have to account for that.  Even ignoring the future pick swap that is impossible to predict (but likely not a big deal), JRich, Langford, and a decent pick this year is a lot for White.

The Theis trade is a nice trade, glad to have him back, but not all that impactful.  Theis will add some depth where we need it most but he is still a limited player.

[ozgod]

Just read this, it adds to my argument above:

https://www.celticsblog.com/2022/2/11/22929311/sorry-folks-derrick-white-trade-disaster-josh-richardson-jayson-tatum-jaylen-brown-romeo-langford

By his own admission, it's a biased hit piece.  Don't get too bummed.

I enjoyed it as a piece of clickbait satire 

[todd_days_41]

Lost in the shuffle of Tatum's ascension is the continued ridiculousness of Steven's trade deadline.

Other than setting a decent screen or two, Theis is a g-league player who is drastically overpaid for years to come. if he plays significant minutes coming down the stretch this season, your team is screwed.

And the Cs at this point would be better off with Richardson coming off the bench (and Langford as wing insurance) than White -- not even factoring the picks given up for a guy who can barely crack 20 mins a game, much less his pricey long-term contract.

The Cs are going to need every asset they can muster to make moves this summer. Instead of assets for Schroder, Stevens got the opposite. And on White, Stevens simply overreached pretty badly when he should have waited until summer.

[Roy H.]

Lost in the shuffle of Tatum's ascension is the continued ridiculousness of Steven's trade deadline.

Other than setting a decent screen or two, Theis is a g-league player who is drastically overpaid for years to come. if he plays significant minutes coming down the stretch this season, your team is screwed.

And the Cs at this point would be better off with Richardson coming off the bench (and Langford as wing insurance) than White -- not even factoring the picks given up for a guy who can barely crack 20 mins a game, much less his pricey long-term contract.

The Cs are going to need every asset they can muster to make moves this summer. Instead of assets for Schroder, Stevens got the opposite. And on White, Stevens simply overreached pretty badly when he should have waited until summer.

I think you're overstating things a bit, but the deadline so far hasn't been a positive.

Out:  Richardson, Schroder, Langford, #1, 2018 swap rights, top-45 protected #2, a couple of guys who didn't play

In:  White, Theis, a bunch of guys we won't play

[Surferdad]

Amazes me how folks can be debbie downers at the strangest times. This team just beat Nets and Grizz, two legit playoff teams. Fifth place and threatening to move up further.  Grant Williams looks good post-trades and is solidly in the rotation; coincidence? Maybe not.

Did Theis and White have bad games?  I guess so. Will that continue? I doubt it.

Guess some folks will never be happy.

[jambr380]

Lost in the shuffle of Tatum's ascension is the continued ridiculousness of Steven's trade deadline.

Other than setting a decent screen or two, Theis is a g-league player who is drastically overpaid for years to come. if he plays significant minutes coming down the stretch this season, your team is screwed.

And the Cs at this point would be better off with Richardson coming off the bench (and Langford as wing insurance) than White -- not even factoring the picks given up for a guy who can barely crack 20 mins a game, much less his pricey long-term contract.

The Cs are going to need every asset they can muster to make moves this summer. Instead of assets for Schroder, Stevens got the opposite. And on White, Stevens simply overreached pretty badly when he should have waited until summer.

I think you're overstating things a bit, but the deadline so far hasn't been a positive.

Out:  Richardson, Schroder, Langford, #1, 2018 swap rights, top-45 protected #2, a couple of guys who didn't play

In:  White, Theis, a bunch of guys we won't play

Man, I didn't even realize we gave up a real pick in that Magic deal. We acquired a top 55 protected pick and gave up a top 45 protected pick. That kind of sucks - especially since it's likely we could have included one or both of Bol/Dozier in the other deals we made.

As for the deadline, it was only okay. I am still holding out hope for a Collins deal with ATL. They have always been hot on Smart and they were reportedly interested in White, as well. I am not dying to give up Smart by any means, but it could be a precursor to something else...or maybe not. The way Horford is playing, we may try to actually keep him long-term.

[seancally]

Lost in the shuffle of Tatum's ascension is the continued ridiculousness of Steven's trade deadline.

Other than setting a decent screen or two, Theis is a g-league player who is drastically overpaid for years to come. if he plays significant minutes coming down the stretch this season, your team is screwed.

And the Cs at this point would be better off with Richardson coming off the bench (and Langford as wing insurance) than White -- not even factoring the picks given up for a guy who can barely crack 20 mins a game, much less his pricey long-term contract.

The Cs are going to need every asset they can muster to make moves this summer. Instead of assets for Schroder, Stevens got the opposite. And on White, Stevens simply overreached pretty badly when he should have waited until summer.

I think you're overstating things a bit, but the deadline so far hasn't been a positive.

Out:  Richardson, Schroder, Langford, #1, 2018 swap rights, top-45 protected #2, a couple of guys who didn't play

In:  White, Theis, a bunch of guys we won't play

There are plenty of losing teams out there that need fans, if you want something to complain about.

[jpotter33]

Amazes me how folks can be debbie downers at the strangest times. This team just beat Nets and Grizz, two legit playoff teams. Fifth place and threatening to move up further.  Grant Williams looks good post-trades and is solidly in the rotation; coincidence? Maybe not.

Did Theis and White have bad games?  I guess so. Will that continue? I doubt it.

Guess some folks will never be happy.

Yeah, seems like some confirmation bias going on after admittedly subpar games today.

But I think White absolutely was a good get, and even as much as I love Richardson, I think it was the right move. It's also allowed us to play PP more given that White is better able to play off of him, which is something that people are missing as part of these deals.

The real question mark in the deal is the pick swap and whether it was worth it. We'll see in time, but it seems incontrovertible at this point that we're a better team right now with these guys than what we had prior to the deadline.

[Roy H.]

We'll see in time, but it seems incontrovertible at this point that we're a better team right now with these guys than what we had prior to the deadline.

Theis has played well, and Schroder had some really poor splits.  I also think he’s here in case Al leaves in free agency.

I’m surprised that it cost us a 46-60 second rounder to dump salary, but not much of a loss.

I like White, but I don’t think his impact to date has been close to Richardson + Langford + #1 + pick swap.  I suspect that to date, we’d be just as good with Richardson and Langford.

But, White has a very good skill set and I expect he’ll get better.  And, that #1 is 21st right now, so I won’t cry over that even if it doesn’t work out.