Celtics trade grades?

[trickybilly]

Very diverse results. Lotta B's and lotta D's lol

I love the Incompletes. How can it be incomplete? It's called a 'deadline' for a reason 

So, I think next year is the year we are truly competitive. So it's a prelude to Summer.

I am prepared to buy everyone a beer if we win this year though...

[todd_days_41]

Very diverse results. Lotta B's and lotta D's lol

I love the Incompletes. How can it be incomplete? It's called a 'deadline' for a reason 

So, I think next year is the year we are truly competitive. So it's a prelude to Summer.

I am prepared to buy everyone a beer if we win this year though...

Then every trade grade is always Incomplete -- unless you win a championship immediately afterwards, I guess.

[SparzWizard]

Very diverse results. Lotta B's and lotta D's lol

I love the Incompletes. How can it be incomplete? It's called a 'deadline' for a reason 

I didn't vote it, but kinda assumed it was supposed to mean "jury's out" or something

I voted C. Not overly impressive but at least we got rid of some deadweights. Hopefully Derrick White pans out for us. Guess that was our "fireworks" for this deadline!

[slamtheking]

Basketball objectives going in:

1. Adding a "Third Star"
2. Adding shooting
3. Adding a veteran (pure) PG
4. Balance the roster
5. If none of the above happen, adding assets for use this summer to aid 1, 2, 3 and / or 4

Results:

1. Survey Says? XXX

Nada surf here.

2.  Survey Says? XXX

White isn't spacing the floor. Theis isn't spacing the floor. Richardson shot better than expected (especially lately), and is gone. Langford is awful, but could hit 3s at a reasonable rate, and is gone. Schroder was not really a positive or a negative here. 

3. Survey Says? Push.

White is a good player, but quite similar to Smart, and not a pure PG. Schroder's a valuable 6th man PG, and was traded.

4. Survey Says? XXX

The roster is less balanced. White duplicates Smart. Richardson was first wing off bench, is now gone. Theis plays our second strongest position -- unclear whose minutes he takes. We have many open roster spots and lack depth.

5. Survey Says? XXX

We sent out our most valuable pick, a baffling future pick swap, and Richardson (nice player on an expiring as of this summer) -- only to get none of 1, 2, 3 or 4 done. We added more long term salary. Theis is not a valuable trade chip (scheme player, one of the worst offensive players in the NBA, longer contract that Richardson). White is not a major + asset to a team trading away a star / rebuilding.

=======

So, not a great grade. Add that sounds like Stevens  pulled the trigger on Theis at the last minute when he couldn't get value for Schroder, and it feels knee-jerk and non-strategic. Then add that the top of the Eastern Conference seemingly ALL got better, and its less great.

Lastly, someone will say: "well we got below the lux tax". That's fine, but a) it was the first trade of the day and therefore wasn't necessitated by other moves, and b) it was an easy non-brainer move we all expected, and c) it wasn't a basketball move but a financial one. So I just give that a passing grade.

Overall, I think Stevens looks like an amateur GM today... which makes sense, since he is.

this is pretty much along the lines of what I was thinking about these trades.  Gave him an F.

very underwhelmed by White so the overpayment for him really sticks in my craw.  if he was going to cost more than JRich and either Romeo or top 15 protected pick, then I would have walked away.  I like Theis as a decent person and seems to be a well-liked teammate but the guy is a foul magnet just by being on the floor.  overpaid for him as well.

[CBS_Take a Report]

I love the results of today. We kicked the can down the road on luxury tax. And for the first time I feel like this will be an area we go into this coming season.

Something tells me we looked at larger transactions involving Smart + Williams + Horford for salary matching purposes and to attract the 3rd star but couldn’t finalize. It’s a gut feeling with no evidence but Just a hunch.

White can be a similar player for us as Smart in many respects. Perhaps he can even be more of a scorer. His defense is also very underrated: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WmNP9n-CLXs

We are a better team today after these trades. We kept the core which drove this recent stretch of winning and added a familiar stretch big who knows our system and a defensive off guard who can handle some ball handling minutes who has similar production as Smart and is <-$2.5m less AAV.

I also feel like we increased our assets to make a larger trade this Summer or next deadline to finally land the third leg of the stool on a similar age trajectory as Tatum/Brown.

Potential Targets using a combination of assets we now possess:

1. Karl Anthony Towns + Patrick Beverly
2. Collins + Bogdanovic
3. Siakam + Onunboy + Van Vleet

[Csfan1984]

I can understand the incompletes. If I just grade the trades in a vacuum they are bad. But what if you get two or three good buy out players which could only happen by opening roster spots?

So right now I have it as,
Josh and Langford should have been enough for White. Didn't believe a pick should be added let alone an additional swap pick on top. That's a serious overpay.

Moved another 2nd to get out of salary in Bol/Dozier trade. What is that 4 picks this year to reduce salary?

Theis for Schro, Bruno, Enes is bad based on the team's own current trade habits. The C's should be getting a 2nd or two back for helping Rockets get out of the Theis contract. Theis isn't what he used to be. He is almost as cooked as Al.
Both guys are solid for about ten plays a night but they fade. His last year or two is going to be rough. With C's tossing picks at everyone to reduce salary how then don't they get one pick back for taking on a mid size contract for a declined player that doesn't fit his current team? It’s like always seeing the grass is greener and burning your savings.

Getting past the over-pays and lack of return, these trades are putting more of a burden on the Jays to score. Team is going to need an efficient 60 pts a night from the Jays to be a contender. The way JT and JB have been this year I really don't see any way they can manage that. C's need to hit big in buyouts.

[todd_days_41]

Who is better? White & Theis or Richardson, Romeo, Enes, Bruno? I like White & Theis better but not liking the firsts they traded

You forgot Schroder.

Schroder and Richardson > White and Theis. If White can improve playing with the Cs, the margin narrows.

You are just unequivocally wrong here. Not only does the NBA market show that teams do not value Schroder and Richardson as much as White and Theis, the stats, the eye test, and common sense do not agree with you.

Schroder could barely get a contract above a minimum salary last off-season, and no one was willing to trade significant capital to get him at the deadline.

I like Richardson a lot, but last year at this time, he was having a tough time getting on the court for the Mavs. He was considered a negative value contract and he was not getting a contract extension anywhere until the Cs offered an extra year and rehabbed his on-court play.

Derrick White and Daniel Theis are not all-stars, but they are better players not only as dictated by how much (in dollars) NBA teams value them, but they are better fits on this Celtics team.

So, by your logic, NBA players are measured in value by how much they're paid? Seems a little (or a lot) off -- last i checked, Westbrook and Wall are largely the least valued NBA players in a dog's age -- but I'll take "Ranking NBA Players by What Their Agents Got Them Paid" for $200, Alex.

Denis Schroder turned down a $80MM extension from the Lakers <1 year ago. Was that a good decision? No it was not, but that doesn't make it fiction, and that doesn't make him a bad player.

So by your measure, he's the highest paid of the 4, and therefore the best player. Theis is then the lowest paid -- which actually make sense, because he largely sucks... much as Cs fans love him.

So Schroder is higher paid than White, and Richardson is higher paid than Theis. So Schroder and Richardson >> White and Theis.

Now I'll take "Why on Earth Do I Wanna Pay Daniel Theis over $9M in 2023-24" for $1000, Alex.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

Who is better? White & Theis or Richardson, Romeo, Enes, Bruno? I like White & Theis better but not liking the firsts they traded

You forgot Schroder.

Schroder and Richardson > White and Theis. If White can improve playing with the Cs, the margin narrows.

You are just unequivocally wrong here. Not only does the NBA market show that teams do not value Schroder and Richardson as much as White and Theis, the stats, the eye test, and common sense do not agree with you.

Schroder could barely get a contract above a minimum salary last off-season, and no one was willing to trade significant capital to get him at the deadline.

I like Richardson a lot, but last year at this time, he was having a tough time getting on the court for the Mavs. He was considered a negative value contract and he was not getting a contract extension anywhere until the Cs offered an extra year and rehabbed his on-court play.

Derrick White and Daniel Theis are not all-stars, but they are better players not only as dictated by how much (in dollars) NBA teams value them, but they are better fits on this Celtics team.

So, by your logic, NBA players are measured in value by how much their paid? Seems a little (or a lot) off -- last i checked, Westbrook and Wall are largely the least valued NBA players in a dog's age -- but I'll take "Ranking NBA Players by What Their Agents Got Them Paid" for $200, Alex.

Denis Schroder turned down a $80MM extension from the Lakers <1 year ago. Was that a good decision? No it was not, but that doesn't make it fiction, and that doesn't make him a bad player.

So by your measure, he's the highest paid of the 4, and therefore the best player. Theis is then the lowest paid -- which actually make sense, because he largely sucks... much as Cs fans love him.

So Schroder is higher paid than White, and Richardson is higher paid than Theis. So Schroder and Richardson >> White and Theis.

Now I'll take "Why on Earth Do I Wanna Pay Daniel Theis over $9M in 2023-24" for $1000, Alex.

Lol. Celtics are better today than they were yesterday. I disagree with you on this.

[jambr380]

I think it's fair to say that the Cs actively went after White rather than him simply being available, thus the 'overpay' people are talking about. I guess we shall see how it works out, but in scouring the Spurs forums, there are lot of bummed out fans right now - some even wondering why they traded their 'best player' and kept 'empty stats Murray'.

[todd_days_41]

Who is better? White & Theis or Richardson, Romeo, Enes, Bruno? I like White & Theis better but not liking the firsts they traded

You forgot Schroder.

Schroder and Richardson > White and Theis. If White can improve playing with the Cs, the margin narrows.

You are just unequivocally wrong here. Not only does the NBA market show that teams do not value Schroder and Richardson as much as White and Theis, the stats, the eye test, and common sense do not agree with you.

Schroder could barely get a contract above a minimum salary last off-season, and no one was willing to trade significant capital to get him at the deadline.

I like Richardson a lot, but last year at this time, he was having a tough time getting on the court for the Mavs. He was considered a negative value contract and he was not getting a contract extension anywhere until the Cs offered an extra year and rehabbed his on-court play.

Derrick White and Daniel Theis are not all-stars, but they are better players not only as dictated by how much (in dollars) NBA teams value them, but they are better fits on this Celtics team.

So, by your logic, NBA players are measured in value by how much their paid? Seems a little (or a lot) off -- last i checked, Westbrook and Wall are largely the least valued NBA players in a dog's age -- but I'll take "Ranking NBA Players by What Their Agents Got Them Paid" for $200, Alex.

Denis Schroder turned down a $80MM extension from the Lakers <1 year ago. Was that a good decision? No it was not, but that doesn't make it fiction, and that doesn't make him a bad player.

So by your measure, he's the highest paid of the 4, and therefore the best player. Theis is then the lowest paid -- which actually make sense, because he largely sucks... much as Cs fans love him.

So Schroder is higher paid than White, and Richardson is higher paid than Theis. So Schroder and Richardson >> White and Theis.

Now I'll take "Why on Earth Do I Wanna Pay Daniel Theis over $9M in 2023-24" for $1000, Alex.

Lol. Celtics are better today than they were yesterday. I disagree with you on this.

All good -- TP. Hope I'm wrong.

[slamtheking]

I think it's fair to say that the Cs actively went after White rather than him simply being available, thus the 'overpay' people are talking about. I guess we shall see how it works out, but in scouring the Spurs forums, there are lot of bummed out fans right now - some even wondering why they traded their 'best player' and kept 'empty stats Murray'.

if they'd rather send Murray, I'll accept that swap

[Atzar]

A on the Bol/Dozier to Magic trade.  A minor deal that accomplished exactly what it needed to.  Obviously this one is weighted less than the other moves.

B on the White trade.  I really like this guy, and a lot of Spurs fans are sad to see him go.  Overpay?  Perhaps.  The pick swap makes me nervous not because of the expected value (that's admittedly pretty low) but because of the sheer variability.  That could either be literally nothing, devastating, or anything in between.  And we won't know where it lands in that range for a long time.  But White can play. 

C-ish on the Theis trade.  I've warmed to this one a bit, though I still have misgivings.  If he's the guy we traded, then he's a team-first guy who can screen for our ball-handlers, shoot and finish at a fringe-adequate level for a 5, and defend.  An above average backup big, provided that you have sufficient scoring elsewhere in the lineup (which should be a priority for us going forward).  But there's a nonzero chance that he just isn't the same anymore.  In which case, we saddled ourselves with a replacement for Freedom at the benchwarmer position until 2024.  Here's hoping he's the former and not the latter.

I wanted to see us address our shooting issues.  We didn't do that.  If anything, we got marginally worse on that front in moving from JRich to White and Schroder to Theis.  That can be offset if Pritchard or Nesmith finds a home in the rotation and knocks down shots.  Nesmith would seem to have an opportunity from the standpoint of positional need, but the fact remains that he has flunked most of his opportunities this season.  Pritchard could potentially play next to White but given that adding defense was a theme with these moves, I'm not sure that the team wants to go in that direction.  It's also possible that Udoka will keep trying to use an 8-man rotation and we just went from Schroder/Richardson/Grant to White/Grant/Theis.  Hope not though. 

Overall, my premature grade would be somewhere in the mid-to-high C range. 

[ozgod]

Celtics trade Dennis Schroeder, Enes Freedom & Bruno to Houston for Daniel Theis

Celtics trades Bol Bol & Dozier to Orlando for 2nd round picks

Celtics trades Josh Richardson, Romeo Langsford, 2022 1st & swap 2028 pick

Giving it a B. I think we're stronger today than we were yesterday. Much as I liked Josh, I think White will blossom here. And Theis is a solid backup to both Al and Timelord, much more than Freedom or Bruno. Langford, Freedom, Bruno were hardly playing and Bol Bol and Dozier never played for us, so I'm not slitting wrists over their departure. We have five roster spots to build out the depth we lost with shipping them out, and if Ime chooses to he can easily find minutes for PP and Nesmith, two forum favorites that everyone has been crying out for more time on the court. Time will tell but I think Brad didn't do too badly for his first of hopefully many trade deadlines 

[Celtics4ever]

Can we wait until we see a few games to grade.   I think it is a B as well, but it might be an A if they gel well on the court.

[boscel33]

I gave it a C.  It's not that I didn't like the moves, it's what we gave up.  We moved Josh and Romeo which impacts the wings.  Who are your 2's at this point, JB and Nesmith?  I don't want Smart in that role, I want him as a PG.  White?  Little undersized IMO.  then, throw in the Pick and the swap and it still feels like a classic overpay panic move.  If they wanted Romeo in addition to Josh, plus a 1st, I want an unprotected 2nd back with White.  As for the Houston deal, yeah, I like it for the return of Theis.  I think Ime has a couple of options after the starters, he can go really small or really big.  Should be interesting.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/now-we-re-seeing-brad-stevens-vision/ar-AATHYTD?ocid=entnewsntp