Celts get Derrick White for Richardson, Langford, #1, 2028 pick swap

[gouki88]

Josh Richardson could absolutely, unequivocally never play the defence White played tonight.

Prove it.

It's difficult because Richardson is in Cancun at the moment, but he's never held the opposition to 0-12 as the primary defender in the playoffs.

That was a joke.

That said, Al Horford never scored 30 in a playoff game before either. Hard to say what Richardson could do after he got traded to a bad team despite playing well in green.

I will give you a TP, however, for taking a victory lap the second you read my 0-for-12 post in the game thread because White didn’t suck for once.

I think he even made a 3! Brad, get SAS on the phone — let’s send ‘em some more picks.

What's that saying about being gracious in defeat?

[todd_days_41]

Josh Richardson could absolutely, unequivocally never play the defence White played tonight.

Prove it.

It's difficult because Richardson is in Cancun at the moment, but he's never held the opposition to 0-12 as the primary defender in the playoffs.

That was a joke.

That said, Al Horford never scored 30 in a playoff game before either. Hard to say what Richardson could do after he got traded to a bad team despite playing well in green.

I will give you a TP, however, for taking a victory lap the second you read my 0-for-12 post in the game thread because White didn’t suck for once.

I think he even made a 3! Brad, get SAS on the phone — let’s send ‘em some more picks.

What's that saying about being gracious in defeat?

Defeat? What it says is: you need to get out more.

[gouki88]

Josh Richardson could absolutely, unequivocally never play the defence White played tonight.

Prove it.

It's difficult because Richardson is in Cancun at the moment, but he's never held the opposition to 0-12 as the primary defender in the playoffs.

That was a joke.

That said, Al Horford never scored 30 in a playoff game before either. Hard to say what Richardson could do after he got traded to a bad team despite playing well in green.

I will give you a TP, however, for taking a victory lap the second you read my 0-for-12 post in the game thread because White didn’t suck for once.

I think he even made a 3! Brad, get SAS on the phone — let’s send ‘em some more picks.

What's that saying about being gracious in defeat?

Defeat? What it says is: you need to get out more.

That must be it. It feels pretty good to put your hand up when you're wrong, trust me

[todd_days_41]

Josh Richardson could absolutely, unequivocally never play the defence White played tonight.

Prove it.

It's difficult because Richardson is in Cancun at the moment, but he's never held the opposition to 0-12 as the primary defender in the playoffs.

That was a joke.

That said, Al Horford never scored 30 in a playoff game before either. Hard to say what Richardson could do after he got traded to a bad team despite playing well in green.

I will give you a TP, however, for taking a victory lap the second you read my 0-for-12 post in the game thread because White didn’t suck for once.

I think he even made a 3! Brad, get SAS on the phone — let’s send ‘em some more picks.

What's that saying about being gracious in defeat?

Defeat? What it says is: you need to get out more.

That must be it. It feels pretty good to put your hand up when you're wrong, trust me

What are you talking about? My post about White was complimentary, smart guy. 

[gouki88]

Josh Richardson could absolutely, unequivocally never play the defence White played tonight.

Prove it.

It's difficult because Richardson is in Cancun at the moment, but he's never held the opposition to 0-12 as the primary defender in the playoffs.

That was a joke.

That said, Al Horford never scored 30 in a playoff game before either. Hard to say what Richardson could do after he got traded to a bad team despite playing well in green.

I will give you a TP, however, for taking a victory lap the second you read my 0-for-12 post in the game thread because White didn’t suck for once.

I think he even made a 3! Brad, get SAS on the phone — let’s send ‘em some more picks.

What's that saying about being gracious in defeat?

Defeat? What it says is: you need to get out more.

That must be it. It feels pretty good to put your hand up when you're wrong, trust me

What are you talking about? My post about White was complimentary, smart guy.

I'm just glad that you're realising what has always been the case: that White is a vastly superior defender and passer to Richardson.

[todd_days_41]

Josh Richardson could absolutely, unequivocally never play the defence White played tonight.

Prove it.

It's difficult because Richardson is in Cancun at the moment, but he's never held the opposition to 0-12 as the primary defender in the playoffs.

That was a joke.

That said, Al Horford never scored 30 in a playoff game before either. Hard to say what Richardson could do after he got traded to a bad team despite playing well in green.

I will give you a TP, however, for taking a victory lap the second you read my 0-for-12 post in the game thread because White didn’t suck for once.

I think he even made a 3! Brad, get SAS on the phone — let’s send ‘em some more picks.

What's that saying about being gracious in defeat?

Defeat? What it says is: you need to get out more.

That must be it. It feels pretty good to put your hand up when you're wrong, trust me

What are you talking about? My post about White was complimentary, smart guy.

I'm just glad that you're realising what has always been the case: that White is a vastly superior defender and passer to Richardson.

Sure, Gouki…. I’m sure he makes a mean tuna sandwich too. You have yourself a good night now.

[gouki88]

Josh Richardson could absolutely, unequivocally never play the defence White played tonight.

Prove it.

It's difficult because Richardson is in Cancun at the moment, but he's never held the opposition to 0-12 as the primary defender in the playoffs.

That was a joke.

That said, Al Horford never scored 30 in a playoff game before either. Hard to say what Richardson could do after he got traded to a bad team despite playing well in green.

I will give you a TP, however, for taking a victory lap the second you read my 0-for-12 post in the game thread because White didn’t suck for once.

I think he even made a 3! Brad, get SAS on the phone — let’s send ‘em some more picks.

What's that saying about being gracious in defeat?

Defeat? What it says is: you need to get out more.

That must be it. It feels pretty good to put your hand up when you're wrong, trust me

What are you talking about? My post about White was complimentary, smart guy.

I'm just glad that you're realising what has always been the case: that White is a vastly superior defender and passer to Richardson.

Sure, Gouki…. I’m sure he makes a mean tuna sandwich too. You have yourself a good night now.

It's lunchtime in Oz - thanks for the idea

[Kiorrik]

Josh Richardson could absolutely, unequivocally never play the defence White played tonight.

Prove it.

It's difficult because Richardson is in Cancun at the moment, but he's never held the opposition to 0-12 as the primary defender in the playoffs.

That was a joke.

That said, Al Horford never scored 30 in a playoff game before either. Hard to say what Richardson could do after he got traded to a bad team despite playing well in green.

I will give you a TP, however, for taking a victory lap the second you read my 0-for-12 post in the game thread because White didn’t suck for once.

I think he even made a 3! Brad, get SAS on the phone — let’s send ‘em some more picks.

What's that saying about being gracious in defeat?

Defeat? What it says is: you need to get out more.

That must be it. It feels pretty good to put your hand up when you're wrong, trust me

What are you talking about? My post about White was complimentary, smart guy.

I'm just glad that you're realising what has always been the case: that White is a vastly superior defender and passer to Richardson.

Sure, Gouki…. I’m sure he makes a mean tuna sandwich too. You have yourself a good night now.

It's lunchtime in Oz - thanks for the idea

To be honest, I could go for some sashimi before my ball game tonight

Glad to see White living up to his rep

Turns out, patience pays off

[Kernewek]

Richardson's presence and Langford's defense would've been nice tonight.

Yeah, we only won by 23 - really needed an injury-prone scrub and an end of bench guard to be the cherry on top

Definitely would have preferred those two to the guy who led the team in +/- tonight.   

Ha, yeah - White is usually on the floor when we go on big runs. Not coincidentally.

This voodoo osmosis “glue guy” take remains the only soft defense for how badly Stevens overpaid for White.

Only if you don't appreciate upgrading passing and defence

He has not upgraded either. These are just excuses.

Lol, sure he hasn't

Your dedication (or obsession) is certainly something. Not grounded in reality, but certainly something.

Should say the same for you. Just because you wanted to defend the trade when it first happened doesn’t mean you can’t now admit we overpaid.

For context, maybe check how Spurs fans feel about the deal. Hint: they’re very pleased.

They're also sitting at home awaiting the draft lottery to start while this Celtics team is still playing. 

I'm not sure anyone on this board really gives two [dang]s on how Spurs fans are feeling right now.

What’s that got to do with Brick White? Nothing, unless you think he’s some sort of lucky charm.

It's the cringeworthy attempts like these, without acknowledging the provable ways in which White is superior to Richardson, that make people laugh at your takes.

Right. Provable. Like “the Cs tend to go on runs when White’s on the floor” provable?

C’mon. Admit the “provable” elements — like scoring, 4th quarter scoring, shooting percentage, falling assist rate (sub 2 in the playoffs for a PG), and 4th quarter assist rate are not in White’s favor, or perhaps you’re not a great judge of humor — or skill.

Furthermore, I think the notion that questioning White and / or the deal to acquire him is somehow sacrilege because the Cs are still a very good team is ridiculous. This “how dare you” mindset reflects a bit of a low standard.

Put down the Pom-Poms for a minute. White is by far our worst rotation player — it’s not really all that close. It’s beyond reasonable to wonder whether giving up picks on top of Richardson was a shrewd idea — both for the now, and for the future. Not sure why it gets this groups blood up quite so much.

Mostly, I think guys are just annoyed that I’m questioning anything at all while the Cs are on a playoff run. I seriously doubt you or others actually believe White is worth what he’s paid, or what the Ca paid for him.

Nothing about White — provable or not — has won the Cs a single game since he arrived. They’d be in the precisely the same place they are today if the Spurs deal had never happened.

I'd like to take some time here to look at these two lines:

Right. Provable. Like “the Cs tend to go on runs when White’s on the floor” provable?

C’mon. Admit the “provable” elements — like scoring, 4th quarter scoring, shooting percentage, falling assist rate (sub 2 in the playoffs for a PG), and 4th quarter assist rate are not in White’s favor, or perhaps you’re not a great judge of humor — or skill.

It's funny, because you can prove these things. But if you care about scoring and shooting (as we can see in the bolded, they make up three fifths of your evaluation), White is never going to be your guy.

If you are actually interested in why, you can get a little bit of analysis from our former home, over at Celtics blog:
https://www.celticsblog.com/2022/5/6/23059906/contributing-beyond-the-box-score-derrick-whites-game-2-boston-celtics-nba-playoffs

But if you really want to dive into what makes Derrick White good (rather than just being someone who insists on insulting people for actually looking at the game in a way you refuse to), I suggest you start with this Cody Houdek (of Thinking Basketball | Premium Hoops) article from last year:
https://premiumhoops.org/2021/05/06/derrick-white-and-the-curious-case-of-the-league-average-perimeter-defender/

and use that as a jumping off point for evaluation.

If you want to do that, you can check the 2021-2022 D-LEBRON metric here (I don't love it as much as Houdek does but for defensive metrics it's better than most):
https://www.bball-index.com/2021-22-lebron-data/

Lastly, if your primary metric of value is effectively 'man put ball in basket go swiiiish' I'm not sure I would insult other people for their judgement of basketball skill.

[wiley]

I think people who are defending White are forgetting that Richardson was a very good player here in Boston.  We had won 8 straight...all was good.

In my book, it's ok to expect excellence from White after a trade like that.  We haven't really got excellence out of him yet.  Mostly we've got the opposite.  I'm still hoping we will see excellence...last night's game was the closest we've come yet other than an early post trade good scoring game or two...

I'm sure White does run an offense better than J. Rich, but let's not act like J. Rich was doing terribly here.  He was a threat that the other team had to spend effort on...good defender and overall was having a great season.

[boscel33]

The biggest problem I still have with this trade, is the 1st we gave up.  Romeo, JRich, and a 1st was an overpay at the time and still is.

[jambr380]

Happy to see White come out and play exactly as we all hoped when we made the trade. Great defense, zero TOs, a few assists, and limited, but effective shooting.

I thought people praising his game 2 performance because he was a +22 were crazy. And even though he was a better scorer in game 3, I also thought he did some stupid things (stepping out of bounds multiple times) w/o being as effective as a passer or defender.

But, yeah, if we can get more of game 4 White - which really doesn't seem outrageous - then I'll feel a lot better about the trade. I still think people are downplaying JRich for some reason, but oh well if we keep winning.

[pokeKingCurtis]

I think it's been mentioned earlier in this thread somewhere, White is under team control for longer than Richardson or has a better contract somehow. And extending Richardson would have taken us over the tax so it was unlikely we would have done that.

So it's essentially trading 1 first for a long term piece in White, who is an advanced stats darling.

[jambr380]

I think it's been mentioned earlier in this thread somewhere, White is under team control for longer than Richardson or has a better contract somehow. And extending Richardson would have taken us over the tax.

So it's essentially trading 1 first for a long term piece in White, who is an advanced stats darling.

We have him for 3 more years, whereas with JRich, he was only under contract for 1 more season. But as far as contract amount, we almost certainly could have re-signed or extended JRich for considerably less than White is making. White makes $16.9, $18.1M, and $19.3M over the next 3 years - that is actually a lot of money.

JRich will make $12.2M next season, so he would need to make $42.1M over the final two years on an extension of his contract to equal what White is making the next 3 years.

[pokeKingCurtis]

I think it's been mentioned earlier in this thread somewhere, White is under team control for longer than Richardson or has a better contract somehow. And extending Richardson would have taken us over the tax.

So it's essentially trading 1 first for a long term piece in White, who is an advanced stats darling.

We have him for 3 more years, whereas with JRich, he was only under contract for 1 more season. But as far as contract amount, we almost certainly could have re-signed or extended JRich for considerably less than White is making. White makes $16.9, $18.1M, and $19.3M over the next 3 years - that is actually a lot of money.

JRich will make $12.2M next season, so he would need to make $42.1M over the final two years on an extension of his contract to equal what White is making the next 3 years.

Thanks, TP