I'm not against trading Jaylen

[Jvalin]

I had never contemplated trading Jaylen till the last couple of days. I guess there is always a first time for everything. I'm not against the idea anymore. He just isn't crafty enough for my liking as a shot creator in the half court. Rule of thumb is most playoff games are won in the half court. For the record, shot creation isn't just about scoring. It's also about moving the ball and creating shots for his teammates. Brown is a terrific defender, but that's less important in my book. I value elite offense more than I value elite defense. We can replace his defensive impact by a 3+D role player. He'd come way cheaper than Brown as well.

Fwiw, the advanced stats don't love his game either. Feel free to disregard them if you don't like analytics.

Estimated +/-
1. Tatum +3.2
2. Horford +2.1
3. Brown +1.7
4. Smart +1.6
5. Timelord +1.5
(the rest of our players are all in the negatives)

Estimated Wins
1. Tatum 4.7
2. Smart 3.2
3. Horford 2.4
4. Timelord 1.9
5. Brown 1.8
5. Schroder 1.8
(the rest of our players are considerably lower)

RAPTOR WAR
1. Tatum 3.8
2. Smart 2.6
3. Horford 1.5
4. Brown 1.2
4. Timelord 1.2

Total RAPTOR
1. Tatum 3.8
2. Smart 2.2
3. Horford 1.5
4. Brown 1.4
5. Timelord 0.9

LEBRON
1. Horford 3.15
2. Tatum 2.70
3. Smart 1.77
4. Freedom 0.39
5. Brown 0.20
(the rest of our players are all in the negatives)

[Csfan1984]

Just because Brown isn't leading the team is those stats doesn't mean he couldn't if given the lead role. Like when Jordan left Pippen stepped up or like when KD left Westbrook took over.  Despite all those numbers posted Brown is the best player after Tatum and it is not close. On top of that Brown can be put on the harder of the wing players to guard allow Tatum more freedom.

I'd trade Brown for someone like KAT but doubt Wolves make that an option.

[nickagneta]

Technically, I'm not against trading Jaylen either....for a clear upgrade.

Barring that, well, you know

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[pokeKingCurtis]

For those willing to trade jaylen for "fair value", who else aside from Fox

Hopefully we aren't trading Jaylen for several role players ...

[nickagneta]

For those willing to trade jaylen for "fair value", who else aside from Fox

Hopefully we aren't trading Jaylen for several role players ...

Fox is a clear upgrade. No thanks

[Jvalin]

For those willing to trade jaylen for "fair value", who else aside from Fox

Hopefully we aren't trading Jaylen for several role players ...

I wouldn't do it for Fox. He's an open-court player. Don't trust him to run the offense in the half court.

Wouldn't do it for Sabonis or Siakam. I'd love us to go after Siakam without including Jaylen.

Brown for Beal is probably fair value for both teams. Not sure whether I like it. In a vacuum, imo Beal is the better player. Problem is, he's considerably older than Brown and he's about to become overpaid. Gun to my head, I'd say no.

I'd be open to the idea of trading Jaylen for Simmons, but I'd ask for more value coming our way either in the form of pick(s) or additional player(s). Let's say Brown+garbage contract for Simmons+Thybulle+ first(s). Personally speaking, I'm still very high on Simmons' game. That said, I fully understand he's a polarizing player. Unfortunately, we'd then probably have to trade Timelord. I mean, he'd be a terrible fit next to Simmons. Let's say we send Timelord+JRich to the Raps for Trent Jr. (or something along these lines, I haven't given much thought to it). Or we dump him to OKC for one of their gazillion firsts. They can absorb his contract. No need to match salaries.

PG: Smart
SG: Trent Jr.
SF: Tatum
PF: Simmons
C: Horford

When Horford's contract runs out / If we trade Horford next season:

PG: Smart
SG: Trent Jr.
SF: 3+D (s)wing, maybe Nesmith if he develops his game
PF: Tatum
C: Simmons

I reckon both these lineups would be more functional and more talented than the one we have right now. Again, I understand Simmons is a polarizing player. Feel free not to like it, but it's probably in the ballpark of fair value for Jaylen.

[droopdog7]

Here is the thing, once you realize that isn't what you maybe thought he was going to be, it's too late.  I agree that Jaylen is no longer a prospect and (at least to me), it's pretty clear what he is and isn't.  Yes, I've been termed a Jaylen hater by some but it has everything to do with the idea that I never thought we had a true superstar.

But he's no longer a prospect.  So there are really two things to get for Jaylen in a trade.  You can get another pretty good player that has flaws too, just different ones.  I don't think you can trade Jaylen for a superstar unless that star is demanding a trade to Boston.  The other possibility in a trade, and I'm not suggesting this right now, is to essentially blow it up.  Trade Jaylen for a younger prospect or picks.

My main point though is whatever you get back will likely not be completely satisfactory either.

[pokeKingCurtis]

For those willing to trade jaylen for "fair value", who else aside from Fox

Hopefully we aren't trading Jaylen for several role players ...

Fox is a clear upgrade. No thanks

You mean downgrade? I'm JKJB but yeah - it's tough to find anyone of equal value that's worth doing. A young wing player is just so much more valuable than Sabonis for example.

I'd be open to the idea of trading Jaylen for Simmons, but I'd ask for more value coming our way either in the form of pick(s) or additional player(s). Let's say Brown+garbage contract for Simmons+Thybulle+ first(s). Personally speaking, I'm still very high on Simmons' game. That said, I fully understand he's a polarizing player. Unfortunately, we'd then probably have to trade Timelord. I mean, he'd be a terrible fit next to Simmons. Let's say we send Timelord+JRich to the Raps for Trent Jr. (or something along these lines, I haven't given much thought to it). Or we dump him to OKC for one of their gazillion firsts. They can absorb his contract. No need to match salaries.

PG: Smart
SG: Trent Jr.
SF: Tatum
PF: Simmons
C: Horford

When Horford's contract runs out / If we trade Horford next season:

PG: Smart
SG: Trent Jr.
SF: 3+D (s)wing, maybe Nesmith if he develops his game
PF: Tatum
C: Simmons

I reckon both these lineups would be more functional and more talented than the one we have right now. Again, I understand Simmons is a polarizing player. Feel free not to like it, but it's probably in the ballpark of fair value for Jaylen.

Smart for Simmons is something I'd consider, just to fit Simmons next to the Jays. Even trading Smart gives me pause, let alone Jaylen. But I understand where you're coming from.

If we're doing headcases, Zion would be the one I'm eyeing for Jaylen.

[knuckleballer]

I like Jaylen and I don’t know what we can get for him, but I’m in favor in shaking up this team.  They’ve been playing uninspired basketball for too long,

[LilRip]

if you trade JB, you’re not going to get a huge upgrade for him. You’re also not gonna wanna bite on clear downgrades for him. The main reason why you trade JB (imo) is to find an even more ideal fit around Tatum. Which begs the question: how do you build around Tatum?

[pokeKingCurtis]

if you trade JB, you’re not going to get a huge upgrade for him. You’re also not gonna wanna bite on clear downgrades for him. The main reason why you trade JB (imo) is to find an even more ideal fit around Tatum. Which begs the question: how do you build around Tatum?

A wing who can stretch the floor and take some of the scoring load is a good a fit as any. Sure, he can create a bit better but a scoring, ballhandling, defending wing in today's NBA...is so valuable.

Which is why despite extensive brainstorming all of the offers feel lackadaisical.

[nickagneta]

Here is the thing, once you realize that isn't what you maybe thought he was going to be, it's too late.  I agree that Jaylen is no longer a prospect and (at least to me), it's pretty clear what he is and isn't.  Yes, I've been termed a Jaylen hater by some but it has everything to do with the idea that I never thought we had a true superstar.

But he's no longer a prospect.  So there are really two things to get for Jaylen in a trade.  You can get another pretty good player that has flaws too, just different ones.  I don't think you can trade Jaylen for a superstar unless that star is demanding a trade to Boston.  The other possibility in a trade, and I'm not suggesting this right now, is to essentially blow it up.  Trade Jaylen for a younger prospect or picks.

My main point though is whatever you get back will likely not be completely satisfactory either.

At least be honest. You didn't even think the Celtics had an NBA player. Three years of posting history that can be easily accessed proves that.

[GreenlyGreeny]

All it would take is Tatum talking to Beal, and Beal agreeing to demand a trade to Boston. Jaylen for Beal straight-up is an improvement for us and better for Washington if they’re going to lose Beal for nothing in the future. Secure Beal long-term and then we’ve got Tatum agreeing to extend again in 2-3 years. It would be our own version of BFFs Durant/Kyrie.

After securing Beal, we need to focus on prying Simmons for a bunch of picks like the Harden trade. It might require someone else taking Simmons from Philly and agreeing to flip him to us for multiple picks, Horford and Schröder, since it’s hard to imagine Philly dealing him directly to us.

Tatum, Beal and Simmons is a legit big 3 with Simmons as our Point Forward and Tatum back at the 3. We would also be an instant contender right now if we can also retain Smart (defensive complement to Beal), Richardson (depth/defensive complement to Beal), Grant Williams (possibly our best prospect now and could relieve both Tatum and Simmons), and Timelord (gotta hope he stays healthy as our starter, though, since Freedom/Fernando is a shaky proposition). Would also be nice to see one of Nesmith or Langford emerge as a legit role player. Maybe we get lucky with Begarin or Madar next year. There will clearly be another MLE PG similar to Schröder come the off-season again.

[michigan adam]

I think I'd do something like Brown, nesmith, langford, and rw3 for sabonis and brogdon. 

Brogdon schroeder PP
Smart Richardson
Tatum
Sabonis GW
Hortford Freedom

Still a little weak off the bench, but the core 7 or 8 would be very strong. 

[Who]

All it would take is Tatum talking to Beal, and Beal agreeing to demand a trade to Boston. Jaylen for Beal straight-up is an improvement for us and better for Washington if they’re going to lose Beal for nothing in the future. Secure Beal long-term and then we’ve got Tatum agreeing to extend again in 2-3 years. It would be our own version of BFFs Durant/Kyrie.

After securing Beal, we need to focus on prying Simmons for a bunch of picks like the Harden trade. It might require someone else taking Simmons from Philly and agreeing to flip him to us for multiple picks, Horford and Schröder, since it’s hard to imagine Philly dealing him directly to us.

Tatum, Beal and Simmons is a legit big 3 with Simmons as our Point Forward and Tatum back at the 3. We would also be an instant contender right now if we can also retain Smart (defensive complement to Beal), Richardson (depth/defensive complement to Beal), Grant Williams (possibly our best prospect now and could relieve both Tatum and Simmons), and Timelord (gotta hope he stays healthy as our starter, though, since Freedom/Fernando is a shaky proposition). Would also be nice to see one of Nesmith or Langford emerge as a legit role player. Maybe we get lucky with Begarin or Madar next year. There will clearly be another MLE PG similar to Schröder come the off-season again.

Is Beal better than Jaylen? Why so?

Jaylen is the better defender. The better rebounder. Beal is the superior ball-handler and passer. Beal is better creating his own shot off the dribble. His scoring efficiency is down this year though back to where it was earlier in his career when it was subpar.

Jaylen is younger and still improving. Beal has peaked and given his short size for a SG is liable to decline at an earlier age than others.

Not to mention all of Beal's best individual seasons have come on bad teams. His more successful teams came with him in a smaller role earlier in his career.