I'm not against trading Jaylen

[Csfan1984]

I think I'd do something like Brown, nesmith, langford, and rw3 for sabonis and brogdon. 

Brogdon schroeder PP
Smart Richardson
Tatum
Sabonis GW
Hortford Freedom

Still a little weak off the bench, but the core 7 or 8 would be very strong.

Brown and TL> Sabonis and Brogdon.

I'd want a deal for Sabonis and Levert via Al, Langford and 3 first round picks. Would not deal Brown for Sabonis.

[Who]

I am worried about a wing who takes 17-19 FGAs per game (plus 4-5 FTAs) and only gives 2-3 assists a night. He needs to get those assists up to justify all those shot attempts otherwise he hurts ball movement.

This year Jaylen is averaging 2.6 assists to 2.7 TOs per game which gives him a turnover to assist ratio is in line with 4 of his other 5 seasons. The one outlier was last season at 3.4 assists to 2.7 turnovers which is at least a positive number but still underwhelming for a perimeter player (good for a center) particularly one who takes as many shot attempts as Jaylen does.

[Csfan1984]

I am worried about a wing who takes 17-19 FGAs per game (plus 4-5 FTAs) and only gives 2-3 assists a night. He needs to get those assists up to justify all those shot attempts otherwise he hurts ball movement.

This year Jaylen is averaging 2.6 assists to 2.7 TOs per game which gives him a turnover to assist ratio is in line with 4 of his other 5 seasons. The one outlier was last season at 3.4 assists to 2.7 turnovers which is at least a positive number but still underwhelming for a perimeter player (good for a center) particularly one who takes as many shot attempts as Jaylen does.

Team shooting is horrendous this year so I am giving a pass on counting ast as a stat this year. Also when it comes to Brown usually he is asked to score and often given the ball late. Did see a few good passes last game but guys missed their shots. Team needs to shoot better to see ast rise up. The Jays should be average at least two more a game if guys shoot better.

[jambr380]

I don't think we should be looking into trading Jaylen, but I do think we need to acknowledge his flaws and play more to his strengths. First and foremost, Jaylen isn't a good passer and likely never will be. You can give him the ball and let him go to work on a defender, but you can't count on him to create for others. He is elite in the open court and as a catch-and-shoot guy. I'd try to get him coming off screens as much as possible to either attack the paint or pull up.

Because of this, we either need a better version of Schroder to push Brown back to his #3 role, or a supreme creator/defender like Simmons to pair along the Jays. I should note, as the team is currently constructed, that Smart may be just about as valuable as Jaylen, and that probably means we aren't using Jaylen to his full potential.

[Moranis]

All it would take is Tatum talking to Beal, and Beal agreeing to demand a trade to Boston. Jaylen for Beal straight-up is an improvement for us and better for Washington if they’re going to lose Beal for nothing in the future. Secure Beal long-term and then we’ve got Tatum agreeing to extend again in 2-3 years. It would be our own version of BFFs Durant/Kyrie.

After securing Beal, we need to focus on prying Simmons for a bunch of picks like the Harden trade. It might require someone else taking Simmons from Philly and agreeing to flip him to us for multiple picks, Horford and Schröder, since it’s hard to imagine Philly dealing him directly to us.

Tatum, Beal and Simmons is a legit big 3 with Simmons as our Point Forward and Tatum back at the 3. We would also be an instant contender right now if we can also retain Smart (defensive complement to Beal), Richardson (depth/defensive complement to Beal), Grant Williams (possibly our best prospect now and could relieve both Tatum and Simmons), and Timelord (gotta hope he stays healthy as our starter, though, since Freedom/Fernando is a shaky proposition). Would also be nice to see one of Nesmith or Langford emerge as a legit role player. Maybe we get lucky with Begarin or Madar next year. There will clearly be another MLE PG similar to Schröder come the off-season again.

Is Beal better than Jaylen? Why so?

Jaylen is the better defender. The better rebounder. Beal is the superior ball-handler and passer. Beal is better creating his own shot off the dribble. His scoring efficiency is down this year though back to where it was earlier in his career when it was subpar.

Jaylen is younger and still improving. Beal has peaked and given his short size for a SG is liable to decline at an earlier age than others.

Not to mention all of Beal's best individual seasons have come on bad teams. His more successful teams came with him in a smaller role earlier in his career.

Beal may be slightly better (or a better fit with Tatum), but not enough to trade Brown for Beal straight up. 

[Jvalin]

For the purpose of this exercise, let's assume Lillard becomes available. After all, the Blazers are 11th in the West right now and they've lost 8 of their last 10 games.

- If you were the Blazers, would you rather

• a) trade him for Brown
• b) trade him for Simmons
• c) trade both Lillard and McCollum for a gazillion picks+prospects+fillers and build from scratch

- If you were Brad, would you do a deal around Brown and Lillard?

Same questions go for Bradley Beal and the Wizards.

[nickagneta]

I am worried about a wing who takes 17-19 FGAs per game (plus 4-5 FTAs) and only gives 2-3 assists a night. He needs to get those assists up to justify all those shot attempts otherwise he hurts ball movement.

This year Jaylen is averaging 2.6 assists to 2.7 TOs per game which gives him a turnover to assist ratio is in line with 4 of his other 5 seasons. The one outlier was last season at 3.4 assists to 2.7 turnovers which is at least a positive number but still underwhelming for a perimeter player (good for a center) particularly one who takes as many shot attempts as Jaylen does.

Team shooting is horrendous this year so I am giving a pass on counting ast as a stat this year. Also when it comes to Brown usually he is asked to score and often given the ball late. Did see a few good passes last game but guys missed their shots. Team needs to shoot better to see ast rise up. The Jays should be average at least two more a game if guys shoot better.

Last year Brad talked about how he told Jaylen that he wanted him to concentrate on being a scorer and not pass as much, because that's what the team needed. When Brad said this, Brown was averaging over 4 assist per game. By year's end his number had dropped to 3.7.

Perhaps, Ime wants him to pass more and is developing Jaylen's role as a pick n roll ball handler because it's pretty evident that Jaylen is bringing the ball up way more often than ever before and then initiating the offense. And that offense often entails being the one ball handler.

I can see him getting more assists and less turnovers as that portion of his game develops.

[michigan adam]

I think I'd do something like Brown, nesmith, langford, and rw3 for sabonis and brogdon. 

Brogdon schroeder PP
Smart Richardson
Tatum
Sabonis GW
Hortford Freedom

Still a little weak off the bench, but the core 7 or 8 would be very strong.

Brown and TL> Sabonis and Brogdon.

I'd want a deal for Sabonis and Levert via Al, Langford and 3 first round picks. Would not deal Brown for Sabonis.

I highly doubt Indianna thinks brown and timelord are better as (combined 32.1pts 13.5reb 3.8assists) vs brogdon and sabonis(37.1pts, 16.9reb, 10.3ast), even after a defensive difference.  I'd love to substitute hortford, but Indianna will likely not unless they are looking for cap relief in the trade, rather than just talent.

[Moranis]

For the purpose of this exercise, let's assume Lillard becomes available. After all, the Blazers are 11th in the West right now and they've lost 8 of their last 10 games.

- If you were the Blazers, would you rather

• a) trade him for Brown
• b) trade him for Simmons
• c) trade both Lillard and McCollum for a gazillion picks+prospects+fillers and build from scratch

- If you were Brad, would you do a deal around Brown and Lillard?

Same questions go for Bradley Beal and the Wizards.

I'd much rather keep Tatum and Brown and go after McCollum.   I have been proposing a McCollum trade for awhile, which I'd do straight up but have also made it a 2 parter where I traded Brown for Simmons

It works as a 3 team trade or 2 separate trades

Boston - Simmons, McCollum, Snell
Portland - Smart, Hernangomez, Nesmith, Langford, 22 1st, 24 1st (top 4)
Philadelphia - Brown

So post-trade(s) with 2 open spots

Starters - Schroder, McCollum, Tatum, Simmons, Horford
Playoff Rotation - Richardson, Grant, Rob
Reg. Season Rotation - Pritchard, Snell, Freedom
Deep Bench - Parker, Fernando

I'd do the Portland version even without the Philly portion, but I just like the collective fit better with Simmons as opposed to Brown after adding McCollum.

[Jvalin]

I am worried about a wing who takes 17-19 FGAs per game (plus 4-5 FTAs) and only gives 2-3 assists a night. He needs to get those assists up to justify all those shot attempts otherwise he hurts ball movement.

This year Jaylen is averaging 2.6 assists to 2.7 TOs per game which gives him a turnover to assist ratio is in line with 4 of his other 5 seasons. The one outlier was last season at 3.4 assists to 2.7 turnovers which is at least a positive number but still underwhelming for a perimeter player (good for a center) particularly one who takes as many shot attempts as Jaylen does.

Team shooting is horrendous this year so I am giving a pass on counting ast as a stat this year. Also when it comes to Brown usually he is asked to score and often given the ball late. Did see a few good passes last game but guys missed their shots. Team needs to shoot better to see ast rise up. The Jays should be average at least two more a game if guys shoot better.

I'd argue it's the exact opposite.

Passing is horrendous --> Not enough ball movement. Iso-heavy offense --> We settle for contested shots. Plenty of them are off the dribble --> Shooting is horrendous

[nickagneta]

For the purpose of this exercise, let's assume Lillard becomes available. After all, the Blazers are 11th in the West right now and they've lost 8 of their last 10 games.

- If you were the Blazers, would you rather

• a) trade him for Brown
• b) trade him for Simmons
• c) trade both Lillard and McCollum for a gazillion picks+prospects+fillers and build from scratch

- If you were Brad, would you do a deal around Brown and Lillard?

Same questions go for Bradley Beal and the Wizards.

Don't forget there were rumors of Brad's interest in Simmons and discussions between the teams in either preseason or the very start of this season. The rumors stated that the team's interest for Simmons would be to bring Simmons in to compliment the Jays not to replace one.

Also, the rumors said it was possible the teams would renew talks when players became available that could be traded because they couldn't be traded until Dec/Jan.

Given these rumors, I have to believe if Brad wanted Simmons bad enough to trade Jaylen, the deal would have been done by now. That's why I dismiss Jaylen for Simmons trade proposals out of hand.

[todd_days_41]

I'm not against trading Brown either -- for the right package. To me, that would probably include two really good young players from a team that would pay a premium for Brown because they struggle to sign "star" players. Ones that would improve the make up of this team.... PG and a big who can shoot come to mind.

But I think that's unlikely.

.....and for pete's sake, can the Celtics make a reasonably aggressive in-season deal involving their other pieces for once?

Keep Brown, Tatum, and the Williams Bros. Package Smart, either Nesmith or Langford, and 1-3 1st round picks (depending on the player) and get a real NBA player who isn't a small forward to pair with those 4 guys. The Cs have been too timid for some time now, and they're going in the wrong direction. Take a little risk, or you risk losing the mindshare of Tatum (most importantly) and Brown.

[Csfan1984]

I am worried about a wing who takes 17-19 FGAs per game (plus 4-5 FTAs) and only gives 2-3 assists a night. He needs to get those assists up to justify all those shot attempts otherwise he hurts ball movement.

This year Jaylen is averaging 2.6 assists to 2.7 TOs per game which gives him a turnover to assist ratio is in line with 4 of his other 5 seasons. The one outlier was last season at 3.4 assists to 2.7 turnovers which is at least a positive number but still underwhelming for a perimeter player (good for a center) particularly one who takes as many shot attempts as Jaylen does.

Team shooting is horrendous this year so I am giving a pass on counting ast as a stat this year. Also when it comes to Brown usually he is asked to score and often given the ball late. Did see a few good passes last game but guys missed their shots. Team needs to shoot better to see ast rise up. The Jays should be average at least two more a game if guys shoot better.

I'd argue it's the exact opposite.

Passing is horrendous --> Not enough ball movement. Iso-heavy offense --> We settle for contested shots. Plenty of them are off the dribble --> Shooting is horrendous

That often happens but as a byproduct of the bad shooting. Guys give up on passing and try to force things themselves. You see it almost every slow start. Guys miss shots first then a regression.

[Jvalin]

For the purpose of this exercise, let's assume Lillard becomes available. After all, the Blazers are 11th in the West right now and they've lost 8 of their last 10 games.

- If you were the Blazers, would you rather

• a) trade him for Brown
• b) trade him for Simmons
• c) trade both Lillard and McCollum for a gazillion picks+prospects+fillers and build from scratch

- If you were Brad, would you do a deal around Brown and Lillard?

Same questions go for Bradley Beal and the Wizards.

Don't forget there were rumors of Brad's interest in Simmons and discussions between the teams in either preseason or the very start of this season. The rumors stated that the team's interest for Simmons would be to bring Simmons in to compliment the Jays not to replace one.

Also, the rumors said it was possible the teams would renew talks when players became available that could be traded because they couldn't be traded until Dec/Jan.

Given these rumors, I have to believe if Brad wanted Simmons bad enough to trade Jaylen, the deal would have been done by now. That's why I dismiss Jaylen for Simmons trade proposals out of hand.

Just because Brad was unwilling to include Brown in the deal at the time, it doesn't mean he can't change his mind, especially since we are underperforming. It might also was a negotiation strategy. Trades are like the game of chicken. Whomever backs down first loses the trade. Don't get me wrong, I'm not necessarily advocating in favour of a Brown for Simmons+ swap. All I'm saying is it might be a possibility. Basketball-wise, it's probably fair value for both teams. I'd expect us to get additional assets only because Simmons has ruined his trade value by refusing to play for Philly.

In any case, I wouldn't put much thought into trade rumors. More often than not, they are leaks from teams/agents trying to push their own agenda. I do believe we are interested in Simmons, but that's primarily because he'd be an amazing fit alongside the Jays, not solely because of the rumors.

[Rosco917]

I am worried about a wing who takes 17-19 FGAs per game (plus 4-5 FTAs) and only gives 2-3 assists a night. He needs to get those assists up to justify all those shot attempts otherwise he hurts ball movement.

This year Jaylen is averaging 2.6 assists to 2.7 TOs per game which gives him a turnover to assist ratio is in line with 4 of his other 5 seasons. The one outlier was last season at 3.4 assists to 2.7 turnovers which is at least a positive number but still underwhelming for a perimeter player (good for a center) particularly one who takes as many shot attempts as Jaylen does.

This^
I've been saying the above for nearly two years. His asset to turnover ratio is well below average. Jaylen isn't a willing passer at all, he's too concerned about solidifying that he's the second scoring option on the team.