Hot takes following a bad loss & terrible start to the season

[droopdog7]

I think Nesmith played very good basketball the last 20-30 games for us last year. He is an elite shooter who plays with a tone of effort on every play, gets his nose dirty on the boards and shows tangible emotion on the court (unlike most of our other players - regarding the emotion piece).

He also has a better NBA body for wing position than Smart. I’d 100% rather see him playing the two than Smart.

I’m OK with Robert Williams so far. Like Embiid (from an injury standpoint) he needs to limit how many times he goes airborne all over the place. Williams is averaging 11 points, 10 rebounds, three blocks, two assists and a steal per 36 minutes, with an ORtg,DRtg or 139/109. That is rock solid. A big part of his value to us is his availability.

The guy I’d like to trade is Marcus Smart.

Pritchard should also be getting more minutes.

Man I get so annoyed by the "trade the guy you don't like" posts.  For what, another guy you don't like?  Or maybe we give up something to get rid or him?  Trading bad players should net only bad players back.  So what's the point?

Now if you say bench him at least that maks sense.

Smart has been awful for well over one season. Trading a player that has been a net negative for the team, whether with other players/assets or not, to add a player you feel will be a net positive makes sense.

Taking a player that makes $13+ million per annum and has been a net negative for a long time and just bury him on the bench and not use him, makes little to no sense from a team improvement point of view and also a team finance point of view.

But in theory the trade balances out.  If he’s a net negative, then you’re going to end up net negative at the end.  There are no miracles here.

And no, this isn’t a situation where you have a good player that doesn’t fit or you have a surplus and you can reshuffle.  Smart is showing to be an awful offensive player without a position.

Your assumption of a net negative player out only yields a net negative player back is not only faulty, but has been proven wrong time and time and time again. Sometimes all a player needs is a change of scenery, coaching and team mates to flourish.

A pretty famous example of this is the Celtics trading "on the cusp of retirement and playing awful" Tayshaun Prince and "I was great for a week but then sucksd" Marcus Thornton for Isaiah Thomas and Jonas Jerebko. Net negative out, net positive in. Just last year, net negative Jeff Teague was traded with a TPE for Evan Fournier, who if kept could have been not just a net positive but a gigantic net positive.


I think if the CS moved Smart and pieces, whether that's a pick or a youngster, they absolutely could pick up a guy that makes the team better. It happens all the time.

IT was traded for a first round pick.  Thornton and whomever were just salary filler.  We struck gold with the first round pick.  Orlando traded Fournier because they were not going to resign him anyway.  Knocked a few million off their salary and got a second.  So sure, if we find a tanking team that wants to get rid of a guy we could improve. But Marcus, with all those years on his contract is going to drag the value way down.  We’ll have to include significant value to get the player, and that is the reason we could improve.  Not because of Marcus.

So is this the year to be giving away future assets?  Heck no, we’re not even close to contending.

[pokeKingCurtis]

I was thinking while the Celtics look really bad the 3rd best option is such a big drop. I DO think there are a few guys out there they could acquire for us to be more of a functional  team but I fear we’re hoarding all assets for the hopes of landing a bigger talent. I’d be ok with that plan if Marcus wasn’t talking the way he is.

Saw on Reddit all this flexibility allows the Celts to be players in Beal or Lavine sweepstakes this offseason. Not being any cap expert myself. Smart will be needed for salaries to match in that scenario I recall reading.

[PhoSita]

I was thinking while the Celtics look really bad the 3rd best option is such a big drop. I DO think there are a few guys out there they could acquire for us to be more of a functional  team but I fear we’re hoarding all assets for the hopes of landing a bigger talent. I’d be ok with that plan if Marcus wasn’t talking the way he is.

Saw on Reddit all this flexibility allows the Celts to be players in Beal or Lavine sweepstakes this offseason. Not being any cap expert myself. Smart will be needed for salaries to match in that scenario I recall reading.

Lol at the idea that the Celts would be players for either of those guys

[Somebody]

I want to make something clear, in case it wasn't in the OP.

I'm not pretending that I saw any of this coming. I was optimistic about this season being different. I thought they would win 45-50 games and be in the second round of the playoffs. I thought it would be a good vibes bounce back season even if they weren't a real contender.

So this isn't a victory lap or something. Much to the contrary.

At least you didn't see this coming - I did and it sucks.

[ScoobyDoo]

I don't want to trade Smart because I don't like him on a hot take after a few bad games. I want to trade him for the following reasons:

He's not the right point guard because:
1. He doesn't have the handles or the requisite court vision to be your #1 point guard
2. He's not fast enough to consistently get around his man and get into the paint, break the D down and make the right pass.
3. He's not a good enough shooter
4. Point Guards have to be just about your best decision maker on the court at all times.
 
He's not the right Off Guard because:
1. He's not a good enough or even consistent enough shooter to be your two guard. He's an average shooter. If he was at least consistently average as a shooter that would help a little. But he is so inconsistent and streaky you can't rely on him night to night as a shooter 

Therefore, I would do one of two things with him:
1. Trade him, ideally for a Montrezl Harrell type PF or a PF who can stretch the floor a bit (Markannen, Bertans, etc.). Harrell would be a great fit next to Horford. Markannen or Bertans would be a good fit next to Robert Williams.

2. NOT trade Marcus Smart but rather, bring him off the bench as your long term P.J Tucker, M.L Carr type role player. This way when he is ice cold and/or making terrible offensive decisions you can yank him. He's just not reliable enough with his shooting or decision making to be a starter.

* Is this scenario, and barring some blockbuster deal, I would still like to bring in Harrell next off season. That guy plays within his skill set at all times and brings a nightly, and vocal, emotional fire this team sorely lacks.

* Another guy I'd like to try and snag if I could get him for cheap is Marvin Bagley from Sacto.

Per Jvalin's psot above:

I had Nesmith as my starting off guard day one this year. Not because I think he's fully ready necessarily but because:
1. He showed me enough down the stretch last year to be given that shot
2. After Tatum and Brown (nod to Pritchard) Nesmith is our next best shooter on the team
3. He plays with grit, hustle and emotional energy at all times - again something we need.
4. He gets his nose dirty on the glass and never takes a play off on defense.
5. I think he is a really nice fit next to Tatum and Brown   

As far as Smart's "heart" role on the team?
1. I wouldn't be surprised if he grates on Tatum and brown a bit
2. He may have the heart but you have to have a level of skill, consistency and leadership to go with that for people to follow you. He's not talented enough and he's too inconsistent.
3. I think Nesmith, Langford and Pritchard would end up filling in that role, along with Richardson - with less bad decision making and hero ball.

I do like:
Horford, Tatum, Brown, Nesmith and Pritchard (but would probably go with Schroder here, because: He has an elite ability to get by his guy any time , get into the middle of the D and break things down. You have to keep a close eye on him on pounding the ball too much, work with him on that. But then you have three talented offensive players in in Tatum, Brown and Nesmith. I do like these three with Horford and Pritchard around them as well - because both Horford and Pritchard would constantly be looking for all of these weapons and trying to get them good shots - so we would be in theory, less ISO oriented - more ball movement.

Time Lord, Grunt, Richardson, Langford, Smart, Pritchard, Kanter (yes I "would" actually play him occasionally...
   

[Ogaju]

I have read a lot of people pining for Nesmith because of his hustle play, but didn’t Ime signal that he wanted him to curb that hustle?

[ozgod]

I have read a lot of people pining for Nesmith because of his hustle play, but didn’t Ime signal that he wanted him to curb that hustle?

I believe he was told to slow down.

Udoka was asked about Nesmith’s absence when he sat out the loss to the Wizards last Wednesday.

“You know, he just [needs to] be who he is and shoot the ball,” Udoka said, “and we told him to take his time, slow down, and play like he did in the summer and early in the preseason when guys were out.

“So we’re confident in him. He’s gotten some great looks that he’s missed, as have other guys in the early season, but he’s a guy we’ll definitely rely on.”

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2021/11/02/sports/is-it-time-struggling-celtics-give-aaron-nesmith-more-look/

[SparzWizard]

Maybe, just maybe what if the C's listened to Kyrie and we traded Tatum and Brown for Davis and then lured Kevin Durant to the Celtics. Then get Davis to sign an extension.

Man...

[gouki88]

Maybe, just maybe what if the C's listened to Kyrie and we traded Tatum and Brown for Davis and then lured Kevin Durant to the Celtics. Then get Davis to sign an extension.

Man...

We would be the most unlikeable team in the NBA. Probable champions (given a good run of health), but the most villainous team in years.

[pokeKingCurtis]

Maybe, just maybe what if the C's listened to Kyrie and we traded Tatum and Brown for Davis and then lured Kevin Durant to the Celtics. Then get Davis to sign an extension.

Man...

We would be the most unlikeable team in the NBA. Probable champions (given a good run of health), but the most villainous team in years.

Can an unvaxxed Kyrie play in Boston? Or just not in NY away games.

[gouki88]

Maybe, just maybe what if the C's listened to Kyrie and we traded Tatum and Brown for Davis and then lured Kevin Durant to the Celtics. Then get Davis to sign an extension.

Man...

We would be the most unlikeable team in the NBA. Probable champions (given a good run of health), but the most villainous team in years.

Can an unvaxxed Kyrie play in Boston? Or just not in NY away games.

Pretty sure one of Schroder or Richardson aren't vaccinated, right? Can't recall

[pokeKingCurtis]

I was thinking while the Celtics look really bad the 3rd best option is such a big drop. I DO think there are a few guys out there they could acquire for us to be more of a functional  team but I fear we’re hoarding all assets for the hopes of landing a bigger talent. I’d be ok with that plan if Marcus wasn’t talking the way he is.

Saw on Reddit all this flexibility allows the Celts to be players in Beal or Lavine sweepstakes this offseason. Not being any cap expert myself. Smart will be needed for salaries to match in that scenario I recall reading.

Lol at the idea that the Celts would be players for either of those guys

I mean Harden just pushed his way out of the Rockets to play with his buddy.

On the flip side T-Wolves got DLo to appease KAT.

Beal's connection to Tatum run pretty darn deep. Yea the Celts are hot ass right now, but I fail to see why they can't be players. Basketball considerations seem to take a backseat at this point for so many of the NBA moves.  (Does make the NBA product a bit soulless at times though).

[LilRip]

Here’s my first hot take: bench Smart, start Schroder

We need the ball out of Tatum and Browns hands when initiating the offense. Tatum is a multi-faceted player but just because he can handle playmaking duties doesn’t mean he should. Instead of focusing on moving the ball, or “creating”, I would’ve hoped the coaching staff would put Tatum in a better position to score (rather than a position to create). Tatum needs to try and play more like KD and less like Harden.


Here’s my second hot take: play Grant more

Wow, I never thought I’d say that. I hated seeing Grant on the floor last year but he’s done a good job improving his shooting this year. Grant is the “ideal” role player beside the Jays right now. A guy who a) plays hard, b) can stand in the corner and shoot, and c) doesn’t try to do too much. I don’t think his defense nor his rebounding is particularly good but he plays his role to a tee.

[Celtics4ever]

Here’s my second hot take: play Grant more

Wow, I never thought I’d say that. I hated seeing Grant on the floor last year but he’s done a good job improving his shooting this year. Grant is the “ideal” role player beside the Jays right now. A guy who a) plays hard, b) can stand in the corner and shoot, and c) doesn’t try to do too much. I don’t think his defense nor his rebounding is particularly good but he plays his role to a tee.

He battles but last game down the stretch he was too small.  But at one point it seemed he was the only guy trying.  Smart guy, worked his tail off this summer which he needed to do.

When the lead was bleeding out last game, and we could not stop them and score, Parker is who we should have played.   The D was already bad, but Jabari can score.

I believe he was told to slow down.

I read this and I think they said something to Rob about staying on the ground more as well but can't prove it.

[wiley]

Here’s my first hot take: bench Smart, start Schroder

We need the ball out of Tatum and Browns hands when initiating the offense. Tatum is a multi-faceted player but just because he can handle playmaking duties doesn’t mean he should. Instead of focusing on moving the ball, or “creating”, I would’ve hoped the coaching staff would put Tatum in a better position to score (rather than a position to create). Tatum needs to try and play more like KD and less like Harden.


Here’s my second hot take: play Grant more

Wow, I never thought I’d say that. I hated seeing Grant on the floor last year but he’s done a good job improving his shooting this year. Grant is the “ideal” role player beside the Jays right now. A guy who a) plays hard, b) can stand in the corner and shoot, and c) doesn’t try to do too much. I don’t think his defense nor his rebounding is particularly good but he plays his role to a tee.

Bolded for complete agreement...