Hot takes following a bad loss & terrible start to the season

[droopdog7]

Like I many many months ago, not confidence in Nesmith.  I don't think he's an nba player and don't need his thrown into the lineup to see it. 

People just need to forget he exists.

[Walker Wiggle]

Like I many many months ago, not confidence in Nesmith.  I don't think he's an nba player and don't need his thrown into the lineup to see it. 

People just need to forget he exists.

The kid just turned 22. I will not pretend to know at this point the sum product of his career as a basketball player.

[droopdog7]

Like I many many months ago, not confidence in Nesmith.  I don't think he's an nba player and don't need his thrown into the lineup to see it. 

People just need to forget he exists.

The kid just turned 22. I will not pretend to know at this point the sum product of his career as a basketball player.

My son just turned 18.  I gave up on his nba dream a long time ago.  The suns may be giving up on Jalen Smith too.

Let's stop using age as a crutch.  Use what you see and make an assessment.  I can understand someone that says he has this or that or whatever and give him time.  I don't see it.  I see some gigantic holes in his game and the only real (maybe) upside is he's supposed to be a shooter.  Nothing else about his game is a plus, unless you think his erratic kamikaze nature is one.  I don't.

[seancally]

Pretty much agree with all those hot takes.

Udoka isn't going anywhere.

Schroder is the best PG on the team.

Horford is the only vet/leader.

My hot take: A blockbuster trade is coming.  The team's salary picture is perfectly set up for it.

"A blockbuster trade is coming." The only trade that I would consider blockbuster is the trading of Marcus Smart. You know for sure they'll never trade either of the J's. By trading Smart the heart of this team turns to jello.

Idk. Smart has had his moments. But a bunch of other teams in the NBA manage to have heart without Marcus Smart. Clearly his heart isn’t getting across this season, and wasn’t last season either.

[ScoobyDoo]

I think Nesmith played very good basketball the last 20-30 games for us last year. He is an elite shooter who plays with a tone of effort on every play, gets his nose dirty on the boards and shows tangible emotion on the court (unlike most of our other players - regarding the emotion piece).

He also has a better NBA body for wing position than Smart. I’d 100% rather see him playing the two than Smart.

I’m OK with Robert Williams so far. Like Embiid (from an injury standpoint) he needs to limit how many times he goes airborne all over the place. Williams is averaging 11 points, 10 rebounds, three blocks, two assists and a steal per 36 minutes, with an ORtg,DRtg or 139/109. That is rock solid. A big part of his value to us is his availability.

The guy I’d like to trade is Marcus Smart.

Pritchard should also be getting more minutes.

[droopdog7]

I think Nesmith played very good basketball the last 20-30 games for us last year. He is an elite shooter who plays with a tone of effort on every play, gets his nose dirty on the boards and shows tangible emotion on the court (unlike most of our other players - regarding the emotion piece).

He also has a better NBA body for wing position than Smart. I’d 100% rather see him playing the two than Smart.

I’m OK with Robert Williams so far. Like Embiid (from an injury standpoint) he needs to limit how many times he goes airborne all over the place. Williams is averaging 11 points, 10 rebounds, three blocks, two assists and a steal per 36 minutes, with an ORtg,DRtg or 139/109. That is rock solid. A big part of his value to us is his availability.

The guy I’d like to trade is Marcus Smart.

Pritchard should also be getting more minutes.

Man I get so annoyed by the "trade the guy you don't like" posts.  For what, another guy you don't like?  Or maybe we give up something to get rid or him?  Trading bad players should net only bad players back.  So what's the point?

Now if you say bench him at least that maks sense.

[Kuberski33]

I agree with most of PhoSita's takes but I don't think they sent out more talent this summer than they took back. Kemba is cooked and one more ball dominant guard was not going to improve the situation.  Considering the market, the additions were solid. 

The coach is in over his head. But he's also not getting any help from Tatum, who's been awful. 

[Jvalin]

If we keep losing games, I'd love us to start Nesmith and Pritchard. I reckon they'd be a great fit alongside the Jays. Personally speaking, I would have been starting Nesmith from day 1 (regardless of our losing record). Pritchard is another story, cause we are relatively deep at the PG position. Obviously, Schroder is a better player, but he needs the ball in his hands. Basketball is played with only one ball.

PG: Pritchard (bring the ball up the court + space the floor. Hide him on the least threatening opposing guard on defense. Alternatively, hide him in the corners. Most teams have an off-ball specialist waiting in the corners.)
SG: Brown (straight line drives to the basket + catch and shoot + transition offense + a bit of shot creation off the dribble)
SF: Nesmith (3+D role player)
PF: Tatum (de facto PG in the half court, constantly run the PnR with Horford/Timelord. I'd ask him to drastically limit the iso.)
C: Horford (secondary play maker in the half court + PnP pop man + PnR roll man + catch and shoot + maybe post up a little bit. Play drop coverage on defense.)

[nickagneta]

I think Nesmith played very good basketball the last 20-30 games for us last year. He is an elite shooter who plays with a tone of effort on every play, gets his nose dirty on the boards and shows tangible emotion on the court (unlike most of our other players - regarding the emotion piece).

He also has a better NBA body for wing position than Smart. I’d 100% rather see him playing the two than Smart.

I’m OK with Robert Williams so far. Like Embiid (from an injury standpoint) he needs to limit how many times he goes airborne all over the place. Williams is averaging 11 points, 10 rebounds, three blocks, two assists and a steal per 36 minutes, with an ORtg,DRtg or 139/109. That is rock solid. A big part of his value to us is his availability.

The guy I’d like to trade is Marcus Smart.

Pritchard should also be getting more minutes.

Man I get so annoyed by the "trade the guy you don't like" posts.  For what, another guy you don't like?  Or maybe we give up something to get rid or him?  Trading bad players should net only bad players back.  So what's the point?

Now if you say bench him at least that maks sense.

Smart has been awful for well over one season. Trading a player that has been a net negative for the team, whether with other players/assets or not, to add a player you feel will be a net positive makes sense.

Taking a player that makes $13+ million per annum and has been a net negative for a long time and just bury him on the bench and not use him, makes little to no sense from a team improvement point of view and also a team finance point of view.

[Surferdad]

Pretty much agree with all those hot takes.

Udoka isn't going anywhere.

Schroder is the best PG on the team.

Horford is the only vet/leader.

My hot take: A blockbuster trade is coming.  The team's salary picture is perfectly set up for it.

"A blockbuster trade is coming." The only trade that I would consider blockbuster is the trading of Marcus Smart. You know for sure they'll never trade either of the J's. By trading Smart the heart of this team turns to jello.

Yeah, that's the way I've felt for a while, but I things seem to be different now with the horrible start.  That said, you are right that Smart is a tradeable piece, but he's not enough talent for most teams to give up a better player.  I don't the jays are untouchable. 

[droopdog7]

I think Nesmith played very good basketball the last 20-30 games for us last year. He is an elite shooter who plays with a tone of effort on every play, gets his nose dirty on the boards and shows tangible emotion on the court (unlike most of our other players - regarding the emotion piece).

He also has a better NBA body for wing position than Smart. I’d 100% rather see him playing the two than Smart.

I’m OK with Robert Williams so far. Like Embiid (from an injury standpoint) he needs to limit how many times he goes airborne all over the place. Williams is averaging 11 points, 10 rebounds, three blocks, two assists and a steal per 36 minutes, with an ORtg,DRtg or 139/109. That is rock solid. A big part of his value to us is his availability.

The guy I’d like to trade is Marcus Smart.

Pritchard should also be getting more minutes.

Man I get so annoyed by the "trade the guy you don't like" posts.  For what, another guy you don't like?  Or maybe we give up something to get rid or him?  Trading bad players should net only bad players back.  So what's the point?

Now if you say bench him at least that maks sense.

Smart has been awful for well over one season. Trading a player that has been a net negative for the team, whether with other players/assets or not, to add a player you feel will be a net positive makes sense.

Taking a player that makes $13+ million per annum and has been a net negative for a long time and just bury him on the bench and not use him, makes little to no sense from a team improvement point of view and also a team finance point of view.

But in theory the trade balances out.  If he’s a net negative, then you’re going to end up net negative at the end.  There are no miracles here.

And no, this isn’t a situation where you have a good player that doesn’t fit or you have a surplus and you can reshuffle.  Smart is showing to be an awful offensive player without a position. 

[Mahk E Mahk]

really good post, phosita. accurate and levelheaded. TP

[PhoSita]

I agree with most of PhoSita's takes but I don't think they sent out more talent this summer than they took back. Kemba is cooked and one more ball dominant guard was not going to improve the situation.  Considering the market, the additions were solid. 

The coach is in over his head. But he's also not getting any help from Tatum, who's been awful.

I think Horford is a better player at this point than Kemba or Fournier.  Kemba and Fournier are both better than anybody else the Celtics added.

Let's also count in the fact that the Celts had to jettison a mid-1st round pick in order to move Kemba, so that is a sort of talent loss at least as an opportunity cost to move off Kemba.

I think Horford is more of a floor raiser than Kemba, while Kemba was a ceiling raiser.  He wasn't healthy often enough but when he was feeling good, he gave the Celtics something they desperately lack now, which is a good shooter who could also handle the ball and break down the defense.


Who's the third best scorer on the Celtics now?  Is it Horford? Schroder? Payton Pritchard?  These aren't the names you want to have as your 3rd scoring option.

[PhoSita]

I agree with most of PhoSita's takes but I don't think they sent out more talent this summer than they took back. Kemba is cooked and one more ball dominant guard was not going to improve the situation.  Considering the market, the additions were solid. 

The coach is in over his head. But he's also not getting any help from Tatum, who's been awful.

Look I was in favor of trading Kemba for Horford.  I was thrilled to have Al on the team again.

But Kemba so far is averaging 15-3-3 on great shooting splits.  He's played all 7 of the Knicks games. 

Early yet.  He'll probably miss time with his recurring knee issues.  But he's not totally cooked, and there's no question the Celts miss having a guy with that kind of scoring ability. 

Same for Fournier, who is also lights out so far this season and scoring 16 ppg.


Anyway, I think it's easy to get bogged down arguing over terms like "talent" that are difficult to define and fairly subjective.

The Celtics have consistently had a downgrade in terms of scoring options / offensive potency year after year for several years now.  I think that's fair to say.


We went from Jaylen Brown being either the 3rd or 4th scoring option on those Kyrie teams, then to having Kemba and Hayward as the 3rd and 4th options after Kyrie and Horford left, to last year with Kemba and Fournier (at least on paper) as the supporting scorers.  Now it's ... Dennis Schroder and 36 year old Al Horford?  That's real rough.


The premise of this team being good anyway was that they would have the personnel to go from their disappointing defensive performance last season back to the top of the league this season.  Instead of doing that, they are somehow even worse than last year, and they are much worse offensively.

[dannyboy35]

 I was thinking while the Celtics look really bad the 3rd best option is such a big drop. I DO think there are a few guys out there they could acquire for us to be more of a functional  team but I fear we’re hoarding all assets for the hopes of landing a bigger talent. I’d be ok with that plan if Marcus wasn’t talking the way he is.