Celtics (0-0) at Knicks (0-0) Game #1 10/20/21

[86MaxwellSmart]

ehhhh, we should have won by 15+ in regulation, we took our foot off the gas and let the crappy Knicks back in the game in the 2nd...when they had nothing going on. gonna be a long season.

[liam]

Going under the screens on most of Fournier's 3pt shots in OT went a long way in losing the game for us.

yeah that was some mixed up defense that happened over and over again.
There was one where Tatum just didn't even try to fight through the screen and I was like, what are we doing?
Then it happened about 3 more times.  Back to the film study for our guys....a lot of film study.

Richardson's Defense would've helped a lot in this game.

Not his shooting, though. His skillset is very similar to Smart’s.

Smart had a good game. Richardson is taller with more reach. He would've filled up some minutes.

Richardson would have helped for sure. At the very least he would have held the fort while Smart and Brown got some more rest.

I’m not sure he’s a better option than Nesmith or Langford and that’s whose minutes he would have been taking.

I was thinking that Imu would've played him more since he's a vet reducing Brown/Tatum/Smarts minutes in a super long game. Richardson would've matched up perfectly against Fournier.

[Mahk E Mahk]

https://twitter.com/billsimmons/status/1451014195806289920?s=21

4 FTA and 21 missed shots for Tatum. Go to the effing basket. This is why he’s not an All-NBA guy yet,

Bill Simmons

He's right

He sure is

agreed, except for the “yet” sentiment. as badly as we want it, tatum doesn’t have what it takes between the ears to be elite. his ceiling is very, very good with sporadic elite spurts but he’ll never be the guy to lead a franchise to championship(s).

and before anyone says it, this isn’t solely based on tonight. we’ve seen enough at this point to know who tatum is as a player, teammate, and leader.

Was waiting for the armchair psychology to make an appearance. Here it is!

I don't get how you can type things like that about a 23 year-old All-Star and All-NBA player that you've never met without cringing.

lol, armchair psychology? and what does meeting him have to do with it?  anyone who has objectively watched JT for the past four years realizes that his basketball IQ is lacking and it’s limiting his potential. his game has progressed physically but he isn’t maturing mentally via decision making and floor/game awareness and leadership.

he’s also making the same egregious mistakes he’s made for four years and he doesn’t posses the ability to adapt his game (especially when his shot isn’t falling). granted, tonight was a rare extreme example but JT demonstrated all the bad traits he’s refused to improve on since his rookie year. when his shot is falling, he’s elite, but when it isn’t (which is too often for an elite player) he’s an average player. he hasn’t improved in this regard in four years. he also checks out mentally for long stretches of a game when he’s not playing well. these are facts and not traits of an elite player.

feel free to bookmark this post and get back to me in a year, or two, or three. i guarantee JT will be the exact same player, but as an older vet, the word “potential” won’t be buoying his future prospects. i’ll gladly eat crow if i’m wrong, but unfortunately, i don’t think i am.

I will happily revisit this ludicrous post. Given he's improved every year I like the chances of him continuing to, and if he only tops out as a 27/7/4 guy on slightly above average efficiency then he's a perennial All-Star forward

not to poke my way in here, but I think Mahk may feel 'elite' = top 5 player, not all star level.

I feel that you can hold both of these thoughts at the same time and not be a complete fool
1.  Tatum is a great player, only 23, obviously getting better all the time, all star level
2.  Tatum does not seem to adjust well during games when his shooting is off.  Tonight he totally should have gotten to the rim more instead of chucking 15 threes.  I tend to agree with Mahk in that Tatum won't be 'elite'=ie top 5 level of player until he can accept those nights where his shot just isn't going down, and shift gears and get to the rim more, or be a big decoy and find the open man more.  Like tonight, we had a guy completely going off all night and there were a lot opportunities for Tatum to dish to an open brown and an open Timelord, but for whatever reason we got more 3 point attempts.

I think both #1 and #2 can both be true.  It is also true that Tatum might get a lot better at #2 during this year and next year.

very fair assessment, blink. thanks and tp to you.

[Somebody]

https://twitter.com/billsimmons/status/1451014195806289920?s=21

4 FTA and 21 missed shots for Tatum. Go to the effing basket. This is why he’s not an All-NBA guy yet,

Bill Simmons

He's right

He sure is

agreed, except for the “yet” sentiment. as badly as we want it, tatum doesn’t have what it takes between the ears to be elite. his ceiling is very, very good with sporadic elite spurts but he’ll never be the guy to lead a franchise to championship(s).

and before anyone says it, this isn’t solely based on tonight. we’ve seen enough at this point to know who tatum is as a player, teammate, and leader.

Was waiting for the armchair psychology to make an appearance. Here it is!

I don't get how you can type things like that about a 23 year-old All-Star and All-NBA player that you've never met without cringing.

lol, armchair psychology? and what does meeting him have to do with it?  anyone who has objectively watched JT for the past four years realizes that his basketball IQ is lacking and it’s limiting his potential. his game has progressed physically but he isn’t maturing mentally via decision making and floor/game awareness and leadership.

he’s also making the same egregious mistakes he’s made for four years and he doesn’t posses the ability to adapt his game (especially when his shot isn’t falling). granted, tonight was a rare extreme example but JT demonstrated all the bad traits he’s refused to improve on since his rookie year. when his shot is falling, he’s elite, but when it isn’t (which is too often for an elite player) he’s an average player. he hasn’t improved in this regard in four years. he also checks out mentally for long stretches of a game when he’s not playing well. these are facts and not traits of an elite player.

feel free to bookmark this post and get back to me in a year, or two, or three. i guarantee JT will be the exact same player, but as an older vet, the word “potential” won’t be buoying his future prospects. i’ll gladly eat crow if i’m wrong, but unfortunately, i don’t think i am.

I will happily revisit this ludicrous post. Given he's improved every year I like the chances of him continuing to, and if he only tops out as a 27/7/4 guy on slightly above average efficiency then he's a perennial All-Star forward

not to poke my way in here, but I think Mahk may feel 'elite' = top 5 player, not all star level.

I feel that you can hold both of these thoughts at the same time and not be a complete fool
1.  Tatum is a great player, only 23, obviously getting better all the time, all star level
2.  Tatum does not seem to adjust well during games when his shooting is off.  Tonight he totally should have gotten to the rim more instead of chucking 15 threes.  I tend to agree with Mahk in that Tatum won't be 'elite'=ie top 5 level of player until he can accept those nights where his shot just isn't going down, and shift gears and get to the rim more, or be a big decoy and find the open man more.  Like tonight, we had a guy completely going off all night and there were a lot opportunities for Tatum to dish to an open brown and an open Timelord, but for whatever reason we got more 3 point attempts.

I think both #1 and #2 can both be true.  It is also true that Tatum might get a lot better at #2 during this year and next year.

very fair assessment, blink. thanks and tp to you.

I agree with both of you in that Tatum's methodical style of play gets really ugly when he isn't in form, and games like these make me feel that people are more enamoured with the idea of Jayson Tatum rather than his actual play for a sustained period of time - he's never put it together for an entire season (or a good chunk of it at least, although him catching COVID to start last season didn't help).

[86MaxwellSmart]

The most frustrating part of this night for me, is that even after a career night, Jaylen Brown missed an uncontested dunk that could've ended this game.

His legs were completely gone at that point.

Yeah, it's a miracle that he even made it that long in the first place coming off of Covid.

I get that, he still Missed a wide open uncontested shot at the rim that could’ve sealed the game.

So did Shroder...missed a wide open layup....gave the game back to NY

[gouki88]

One upside - could anyone ever have seen Timelord being able to play 45 minutes in one night?

[blink]

One upside - could anyone ever have seen Timelord being able to play 45 minutes in one night?

He played pretty well in the extended minutes.  His development this year is so key to our chances of being a good / great team.
I would be happy with good for now.

[Mahk E Mahk]

https://twitter.com/billsimmons/status/1451014195806289920?s=21

4 FTA and 21 missed shots for Tatum. Go to the effing basket. This is why he’s not an All-NBA guy yet,

Bill Simmons

He's right

He sure is

agreed, except for the “yet” sentiment. as badly as we want it, tatum doesn’t have what it takes between the ears to be elite. his ceiling is very, very good with sporadic elite spurts but he’ll never be the guy to lead a franchise to championship(s).

and before anyone says it, this isn’t solely based on tonight. we’ve seen enough at this point to know who tatum is as a player, teammate, and leader.

Was waiting for the armchair psychology to make an appearance. Here it is!

I don't get how you can type things like that about a 23 year-old All-Star and All-NBA player that you've never met without cringing.

lol, armchair psychology? and what does meeting him have to do with it?  anyone who has objectively watched JT for the past four years realizes that his basketball IQ is lacking and it’s limiting his potential. his game has progressed physically but he isn’t maturing mentally via decision making and floor/game awareness and leadership.

he’s also making the same egregious mistakes he’s made for four years and he doesn’t posses the ability to adapt his game (especially when his shot isn’t falling). granted, tonight was a rare extreme example but JT demonstrated all the bad traits he’s refused to improve on since his rookie year. when his shot is falling, he’s elite, but when it isn’t (which is too often for an elite player) he’s an average player. he hasn’t improved in this regard in four years. he also checks out mentally for long stretches of a game when he’s not playing well. these are facts and not traits of an elite player.

feel free to bookmark this post and get back to me in a year, or two, or three. i guarantee JT will be the exact same player, but as an older vet, the word “potential” won’t be buoying his future prospects. i’ll gladly eat crow if i’m wrong, but unfortunately, i don’t think i am.

I will happily revisit this ludicrous post. Given he's improved every year I like the chances of him continuing to, and if he only tops out as a 27/7/4 guy on slightly above average efficiency then he's a perennial All-Star forward

not to poke my way in here, but I think Mahk may feel 'elite' = top 5 player, not all star level.

I feel that you can hold both of these thoughts at the same time and not be a complete fool
1.  Tatum is a great player, only 23, obviously getting better all the time, all star level
2.  Tatum does not seem to adjust well during games when his shooting is off.  Tonight he totally should have gotten to the rim more instead of chucking 15 threes.  I tend to agree with Mahk in that Tatum won't be 'elite'=ie top 5 level of player until he can accept those nights where his shot just isn't going down, and shift gears and get to the rim more, or be a big decoy and find the open man more.  Like tonight, we had a guy completely going off all night and there were a lot opportunities for Tatum to dish to an open brown and an open Timelord, but for whatever reason we got more 3 point attempts.

I think both #1 and #2 can both be true.  It is also true that Tatum might get a lot better at #2 during this year and next year.

very fair assessment, blink. thanks and tp to you.

I agree with both of you in that Tatum's methodical style of play gets really ugly when he isn't in form, and games like these make me feel that people are more enamoured with the idea of Jayson Tatum rather than his actual play for a sustained period of time - he's never put it together for an entire season (or a good chunk of it at least, although him catching COVID to start last season didn't help).

very well stated. i like the sentiment “people are more enamoured with the idea of Jayson Tatum rather than his actual play for a sustained period of time.”

this season will be very telling for mr. tatum.

[nickagneta]

I saw so many good things tonight:

Brown, no practice in 10 days, just back from Covid and using an inhaler went for a career high 46 points, 9 rebounds, 6 assists, 3 steals, 1 block and could have had another 4-5 assists if people could hit wide open shots. I don't want to hear about the missed dunk. His legs were jelly and he was trying to make a statement dunk to demoralize the Knicks.

Timelord went 45 minutes, didn't miss a FG, shot 6-8 from the line(75%) and, oh yeah, had 10 boards 3 assists, 3 steals, 5 blocks and 16 points. He was the 2nd best Celtic on the floor tonight.

Smart played within himself, brought back his All-Defense quality defense, was 5-11 from three with 15 points, 8 rebounds and 5 assists.

I liked what Grant Williams gave the team. He was matched up with an All-NBA PF and a center that is 7 inches taller than him. He gave the team 15 points, 5 rebounds and 4 assists and stretched the floor going 3-5 from 3. A Timelord/Horford/Grant/Tatum front court rotation, mix and matching as needed is going to be good. Grant got himself in shape, is hitting his threes and is moving much quicker in all directions. Except up, unfortunately.

Romeo showed he is no bust. Even with Richardson here, he will need minutes.

Schroder is going to be that Jordan Clarkson type scorer off the bench that can also set up others. I love the addition.

Tatum, Nesmith and Pritchard are all way better than they played tonight. When they start playing better, watch out, I think this team can go places.

Especially since, this team didn't roll over and quit. They would have last year. There's definitely a different vibe to this team.

[Adelaide Celt]

Is Udoka on the hot seat yet or what???

If he loses the next game, then yeah

Pure reactionary, knee-jerk stupidity, never in short supply on the forum

[Celtics4ever]

I don't think he is on the hot seat but I think he needs to improve some.   He is a new head coach and is going to learn and get better.  He was not not perfect but he will learn.   This is his first rodeo.  I was yelling the whole second half put Rob on Randle.  When we did we started coming back

I am not a fan of the switch everything defense thus far.  The guys played hard for him.

The small ball lineup in the first half was bad and looked bad.

Grant looked great.   I am glad he worked his tail off.   That is what it is going to take his career to be a pro, effort and being fit.

I think the team has talked to Rob about not jumping out of the gym.   To play a more limited style to protect his health.  I also think they cautioned Nesmith on D to play in control.

[moiso]

The most frustrating part of this night for me, is that even after a career night, Jaylen Brown missed an uncontested dunk that could've ended this game.

His legs were completely gone at that point.

It does seem like a funny take because Jaylen was amazing and he was exhausted... but it does seem to me that Jaylen misses more dunks than any other guy who can attack the rim like he can.  It's not really surprising when he misses them.  Same with Smart but obviously its a lack of lift with Smart.  Maybe Jaylen's hands are a little smaller than most guys with his physical profile.

Yeah, it's a miracle that he even made it that long in the first place coming off of Covid.

I get that, he still Missed a wide open uncontested shot at the rim that could’ve sealed the game.

lol...this is a funny take.  46 points, 9 reb, 6 assists, 3 steals....but yeah Jaylen lost the game for us with his one missed dunk.

Must have typed this in the wrong spot.  My post is up there under JSD's.  Sorry.

[Birdman]

Maybe adding more muscles may hurt Tatum shooting?? He needs to drive more inside

[hodgy03038]

Can't stop Obe Toppin, Julius and of all people Fournier - we got problems. Exciting game though. I didn't realize we only have like 6 players.

[dannyboy35]

  Ime already really concerns me. Did he abandon captains because Marcus decided it was meaningless Are we really switching absolutely everything? That’s bad for Timelord. Our only offense came when Jaylen broke his man , which was almost any time he wanted. Jaylen should just be point guard.