NBA Season 2021-22

[nickagneta]

This video is proof, Lebron only tries hard when he has the ball on offense or desperately wants the ball on offense and otherwise gives little to no effort.

The video is proof of what happened on that possession. 

Lebron tries plenty.  Guys who average 29 / 8 / 6 (along with 2.6 combined steals + blocks) aren't "not trying".  I suspect the man is tired; he's 37 years old and is averaging the 4th most minutes in the NBA.

Our current  team coasts.  They did it last night in the first half.  They did it against the Pacers and the Pistons for long stretches.  Hell, your boy JB showed less effort than Lebron in terms of boxing out on a crucial shot against Detroit, giving up an easy offensive rebound and basket with 40 seconds left in a tie game.  That one play isn't indicative of how hard he tries in general, though.

There is way too much video of Lebron being tired then this year. And being as good as Lebron is and playing as much as he does, he can definitely not try, or maybe the better wording you might prefer would be, definitely only go through the motions with minimal effort, and still get his numbers.

[Roy H.]

This video is proof, Lebron only tries hard when he has the ball on offense or desperately wants the ball on offense and otherwise gives little to no effort.

The video is proof of what happened on that possession. 

Lebron tries plenty.  Guys who average 29 / 8 / 6 (along with 2.6 combined steals + blocks) aren't "not trying".  I suspect the man is tired; he's 37 years old and is averaging the 4th most minutes in the NBA.

Our current  team coasts.  They did it last night in the first half.  They did it against the Pacers and the Pistons for long stretches.  Hell, your boy JB showed less effort than Lebron in terms of boxing out on a crucial shot against Detroit, giving up an easy offensive rebound and basket with 40 seconds left in a tie game.  That one play isn't indicative of how hard he tries in general, though.

There is way too much video of Lebron being tired then this year. And being as good as Lebron is and playing as much as he does, he can definitely not try, or maybe the better wording you might prefer would be, definitely only go through the motions with minimal effort, and still get his numbers.

I don't think I agree.  Lebron is one of the greatest players ever, obviously.  But, can he really have the numbers he's having at age 37 without decent effort most of the time? 

This has been his fourth best scoring year, his fourth best rebounding year, his third best season for blocks and his fifth best efficiency year.  Really, the only area where he's doing poorer than expectations is his assists, and that could be a combination of playing next to Westbrook and otherwise having terrible teammates.

I expect the truth is somewhere in between Clay and Moranis here.  Lebron is an old, tired dude, but he's been spending a ton of energy trying to keep his team in games.  As a top playoff seed has become impossible, he's probably looked toward individual goals moreso than in the past, but he cares about winning.  I'm sure his frustration has been quite high -- largely due to GM Lebron -- but my guess is that his effort level is within normal NBA ranges. 

[nickagneta]

This video is proof, Lebron only tries hard when he has the ball on offense or desperately wants the ball on offense and otherwise gives little to no effort.

The video is proof of what happened on that possession. 

Lebron tries plenty.  Guys who average 29 / 8 / 6 (along with 2.6 combined steals + blocks) aren't "not trying".  I suspect the man is tired; he's 37 years old and is averaging the 4th most minutes in the NBA.

Our current  team coasts.  They did it last night in the first half.  They did it against the Pacers and the Pistons for long stretches.  Hell, your boy JB showed less effort than Lebron in terms of boxing out on a crucial shot against Detroit, giving up an easy offensive rebound and basket with 40 seconds left in a tie game.  That one play isn't indicative of how hard he tries in general, though.

There is way too much video of Lebron being tired then this year. And being as good as Lebron is and playing as much as he does, he can definitely not try, or maybe the better wording you might prefer would be, definitely only go through the motions with minimal effort, and still get his numbers.

I don't think I agree.  Lebron is one of the greatest players ever, obviously.  But, can he really have the numbers he's having at age 37 without decent effort most of the time? 

This has been his fourth best scoring year, his fourth best rebounding year, his third best season for blocks and his fifth best efficiency year.  Really, the only area where he's doing poorer than expectations is his assists, and that could be a combination of playing next to Westbrook and otherwise having terrible teammates.

I expect the truth is somewhere in between Clay and Moranis here.  Lebron is an old, tired dude, but he's been spending a ton of energy trying to keep his team in games.  As a top playoff seed has become impossible, he's probably looked toward individual goals moreso than in the past, but he cares about winning.  I'm sure his frustration has been quite high -- largely due to GM Lebron -- but my guess is that his effort level is within normal NBA ranges.

As always, truth is somewhere in between, you are right about that. I always saw Lebron as a guy that had amazing talent but also gave more effort than anyone on the floor. So remembering that Lebron and seeing this Lebron, sure makes it feel like to me he is just going through the motions stat padding for that record he wants so much.

[Moranis]

This video is proof, Lebron only tries hard when he has the ball on offense or desperately wants the ball on offense and otherwise gives little to no effort.

The video is proof of what happened on that possession. 

Lebron tries plenty.  Guys who average 29 / 8 / 6 (along with 2.6 combined steals + blocks) aren't "not trying".  I suspect the man is tired; he's 37 years old and is averaging the 4th most minutes in the NBA.

Our current  team coasts.  They did it last night in the first half.  They did it against the Pacers and the Pistons for long stretches.  Hell, your boy JB showed less effort than Lebron in terms of boxing out on a crucial shot against Detroit, giving up an easy offensive rebound and basket with 40 seconds left in a tie game.  That one play isn't indicative of how hard he tries in general, though.

There is way too much video of Lebron being tired then this year. And being as good as Lebron is and playing as much as he does, he can definitely not try, or maybe the better wording you might prefer would be, definitely only go through the motions with minimal effort, and still get his numbers.

I don't think I agree.  Lebron is one of the greatest players ever, obviously.  But, can he really have the numbers he's having at age 37 without decent effort most of the time? 

This has been his fourth best scoring year, his fourth best rebounding year, his third best season for blocks and his fifth best efficiency year.  Really, the only area where he's doing poorer than expectations is his assists, and that could be a combination of playing next to Westbrook and otherwise having terrible teammates.

I expect the truth is somewhere in between Clay and Moranis here.  Lebron is an old, tired dude, but he's been spending a ton of energy trying to keep his team in games.  As a top playoff seed has become impossible, he's probably looked toward individual goals moreso than in the past, but he cares about winning.  I'm sure his frustration has been quite high -- largely due to GM Lebron -- but my guess is that his effort level is within normal NBA ranges.

As always, truth is somewhere in between, you are right about that. I always saw Lebron as a guy that had amazing talent but also gave more effort than anyone on the floor. So remembering that Lebron and seeing this Lebron, sure makes it feel like to me he is just going through the motions stat padding for that record he wants so much.

Lebron told everyone two weeks ago he was going to play for another 3 seasons at least.  He doesn't need to stat pad to pass Kareem, he is going to do it with ease.  The Lakers were +7 in Lebron's 38 minutes last night and -12 in the 10 minutes he was on the bench, that just doesn't strike me as a guy that doesn't care, that is going through the motions, etc.  If he was just going through the motions, they don't come all the way back in the 3rd quarter of that game.  There are of course possessions in every game where players just don't give it their all because they quite simply can't.  No one can go 100% every second they are on the floor and play at a high level for 37 minutes a game.  It just isn't possible.  Even guys fully in their prime take possessions off, coast, etc.  Giannis does it, Lebron has done it his whole career, just as Jordan, Bird, and Magic did, and on and on.  Lebron is older so he can't go as hard as long as used to, so there is more of it, but that happens to everyone as they age and the wear takes hold.  That is why no one would claim Lebron is the best player in the world anymore, he's just older and more beaten down, and can't go full bore as much. 

[celticsclay]

Lakers are at least showing some effort this half

If they come back and win this game, you're going to have to take the blame.   

I can do that. The talent levels on these teams are pretty even. I don’t think brunson, dinwiddie powell and finney smith should be dominating the lakers In LA if LA makes an effort. Lebron hit three threes in the third curious what he will have here in the 4th.

Putting aside Lebron and Doncic, the Mavs have much better players than the Lakers.

This is really the bottom line.  Last night, the Lakers were +7 in Lebron's 38 minutes and -12 in the 10 minutes he was on the bench.  Conversely, in Luka's 38 minutes the Mavs were -4 and they were +9 in the 10 minutes he sat on the bench.  The Lakers have 3 players that aren't minimum players, Lebron, Westbrook, and THT.  Everyone else on their team that is available is on a minimum contract, and rightfully so (Carmelo is probably the only guy whose value is above a minimum contract that is on one).  They just don't have a very good team.  They need Davis to look like a top 5 guy and Westbrook to not be awful for them to play well and neither of those things has happened this year.

No, the bottom line is this completely checked out version of LeBron last night.

https://twitter.com/WorldWideWob/status/1498871539952799744

How is Lebron fighting for position in the post and getting open completely checked out?  I agree after his teammates missed him in the post that he gave no effort to rebound the ball and jogged back on defense.  But if he was completely checked out he'd be standing at the 3pt line not fighting for position in the post.

He was completely checked out the moment that shot went up.  If any member of the Celtics just ignored two rebound attempts like that and proceeded to dog it back on defense there'd instantly be a thread demanding he be traded and/or Udoka fired for not benching him.  He quit in the middle of a possession.

He fought positioning again after the first offensive rebound though and the 2nd rebound attempt went no where near him.

Moranis, tazz, what are you watching?

Lebron fought for lost post position to receive the ball to score. His only interest was to get the ball and shoot. Once the shot went up his positioning fight stopped and he just stood there doing nothing. For literally seconds.

Then once he teammate stole the ball he once again tried to seal down low for the expressed purpose of getting the ball to shoot and score. And again, once the ball was shot and not fed to him, he gave up and then dogged it up the court on defense to see the Mavs score easily because they had numbers because Lebron jogged up the floor.

This video is proof, Lebron only tries hard when he has the ball on offense or desperately wants the ball on offense and otherwise gives little to no effort.

And clay is right, he's been doing this most of the year. He is searching out points to get Kareem's record much like Rondo searched out assists. It's terrible.

I've had to see too much of the Lakers this as they are on all the time. LeBron is doing just what you said in stat chasing. If you watch him he is clearly not playing for anything other than stats.

m
Yeah not saying he checked out at all here is ridiculous. He literally stood still an extra second to show his frustration. I get you guys are fans of him but he is not always trying and is chasing points right now.

[tazzmaniac]

Lakers are at least showing some effort this half

If they come back and win this game, you're going to have to take the blame.   

I can do that. The talent levels on these teams are pretty even. I don’t think brunson, dinwiddie powell and finney smith should be dominating the lakers In LA if LA makes an effort. Lebron hit three threes in the third curious what he will have here in the 4th.

Putting aside Lebron and Doncic, the Mavs have much better players than the Lakers.

This is really the bottom line.  Last night, the Lakers were +7 in Lebron's 38 minutes and -12 in the 10 minutes he was on the bench.  Conversely, in Luka's 38 minutes the Mavs were -4 and they were +9 in the 10 minutes he sat on the bench.  The Lakers have 3 players that aren't minimum players, Lebron, Westbrook, and THT.  Everyone else on their team that is available is on a minimum contract, and rightfully so (Carmelo is probably the only guy whose value is above a minimum contract that is on one).  They just don't have a very good team.  They need Davis to look like a top 5 guy and Westbrook to not be awful for them to play well and neither of those things has happened this year.

No, the bottom line is this completely checked out version of LeBron last night.

https://twitter.com/WorldWideWob/status/1498871539952799744

How is Lebron fighting for position in the post and getting open completely checked out?  I agree after his teammates missed him in the post that he gave no effort to rebound the ball and jogged back on defense.  But if he was completely checked out he'd be standing at the 3pt line not fighting for position in the post.

He was completely checked out the moment that shot went up.  If any member of the Celtics just ignored two rebound attempts like that and proceeded to dog it back on defense there'd instantly be a thread demanding he be traded and/or Udoka fired for not benching him.  He quit in the middle of a possession.

He fought positioning again after the first offensive rebound though and the 2nd rebound attempt went no where near him.

Moranis, tazz, what are you watching?

Lebron fought for lost post position to receive the ball to score. His only interest was to get the ball and shoot. Once the shot went up his positioning fight stopped and he just stood there doing nothing. For literally seconds.

Then once he teammate stole the ball he once again tried to seal down low for the expressed purpose of getting the ball to shoot and score. And again, once the ball was shot and not fed to him, he gave up and then dogged it up the court on defense to see the Mavs score easily because they had numbers because Lebron jogged up the floor.

This video is proof, Lebron only tries hard when he has the ball on offense or desperately wants the ball on offense and otherwise gives little to no effort.

And clay is right, he's been doing this most of the year. He is searching out points to get Kareem's record much like Rondo searched out assists. It's terrible.

I've had to see too much of the Lakers this as they are on all the time. LeBron is doing just what you said in stat chasing. If you watch him he is clearly not playing for anything other than stats.

m
Yeah not saying he checked out at all here is ridiculous. He literally stood still an extra second to show his frustration. I get you guys are fans of him but he is not always trying and is chasing points right now.

No one is saying he is always trying, always giving 100% effort.  However, making a claim that Lebron is "completely checked out" is ridiculous.  And to suggest we're saying so because we're fans of Lebron just makes you ridiculous.  Never been a fan of Lebron or his ilk. 

[Roy H.]

James has been the fifth best player in the NBA this year by all-in-one metric EPM. He’s third in the league in scoring, top-20 in assists, top-30 in rebounds, top-10 in steals. He’s having his most efficient scoring season since his last year with the Cavaliers by true shooing percentage. He’s still getting to the rim at an incredible rate, and he’s making 79.3 percent when he gets there. It’s his second best finishing season ever. James’ play has of course slipped a bit from his prime in Miami and Cleveland, but his level of play was so high that he remains one of the best players in the league even with the drop-off. An all-time great like LeBron deserves to be competing deep in the playoffs when he’s playing like this, not carrying a flawed team on his back just to make the play-in tournament. – via Ricky O'Donnell @ SB Nation

Here's a link to EPM:  https://dunksandthrees.com/epm

Nothing *too* crazy until you find Mike Muscala 15th in the NBA, right behind Luka.  Things get a bit nuttier after that.

[mobilija]

James has been the fifth best player in the NBA this year by all-in-one metric EPM. He’s third in the league in scoring, top-20 in assists, top-30 in rebounds, top-10 in steals. He’s having his most efficient scoring season since his last year with the Cavaliers by true shooing percentage. He’s still getting to the rim at an incredible rate, and he’s making 79.3 percent when he gets there. It’s his second best finishing season ever. James’ play has of course slipped a bit from his prime in Miami and Cleveland, but his level of play was so high that he remains one of the best players in the league even with the drop-off. An all-time great like LeBron deserves to be competing deep in the playoffs when he’s playing like this, not carrying a flawed team on his back just to make the play-in tournament. – via Ricky O'Donnell @ SB Nation

Here's a link to EPM:  https://dunksandthrees.com/epm

Nothing *too* crazy until you find Mike Muscala 15th in the NBA, right behind Luka.  Things get a bit nuttier after that.

Derek White the 2nd Celtic on that list....

[Moranis]

James has been the fifth best player in the NBA this year by all-in-one metric EPM. He’s third in the league in scoring, top-20 in assists, top-30 in rebounds, top-10 in steals. He’s having his most efficient scoring season since his last year with the Cavaliers by true shooing percentage. He’s still getting to the rim at an incredible rate, and he’s making 79.3 percent when he gets there. It’s his second best finishing season ever. James’ play has of course slipped a bit from his prime in Miami and Cleveland, but his level of play was so high that he remains one of the best players in the league even with the drop-off. An all-time great like LeBron deserves to be competing deep in the playoffs when he’s playing like this, not carrying a flawed team on his back just to make the play-in tournament. – via Ricky O'Donnell @ SB Nation

Here's a link to EPM:  https://dunksandthrees.com/epm

Nothing *too* crazy until you find Mike Muscala 15th in the NBA, right behind Luka.  Things get a bit nuttier after that.

If it doesn't account for minutes, then Muscala that high actually isn't crazy given how incredible he has shot the ball this year.  42.9% from 3 (on nearly 4 attempts), 50.6% from 2, and 84.2% from 1, which makes his TS% 63.0.  His PER is 20.1, which isn't that far off guys like Luka (23.9). Usually minutes is accounted for in these things in some way as there is no way someone playing 13.8 mpg should be that high, but when he has actually been on the floor he has been fantastic in those limited minutes this year.

[celticsclay]

Zion is reportedly going to start doing some basketball activities soon. Not sure if that means he will be back this season though. They would certainly be a bit scarier opponent if he is back and giving them anything decent for the playin (if they make it).

[Phantom255x]

Zion is reportedly going to start doing some basketball activities soon. Not sure if that means he will be back this season though. They would certainly be a bit scarier opponent if he is back and giving them anything decent for the playin (if they make it).

Oh yeah, Zion will hold a basketball a week from now. Then a week later, he'll bounce it

 

He's not coming back this season. Even if he does he's not doing anything impactful.

Originally it was only, "he'll be out for the first few weeks of the season". There's just one month left in this season and he's still been gone, in fact for stretches I don't even think he's been with Pelicans members either.

[gouki88]

I think the video of LeBron is just more of the same we've seen over the last few years from him. When things aren't going his way, either on or off the court, he starts to quite openly pout about it on the floor. When his team struggles he really seems to find it hard to motivate himself the way he can when his team is playing well (see his first season in LA). This isn't at all unique to him, but it sticks out more because of how impactful he is.

[Donoghus]

I think the video of LeBron is just more of the same we've seen over the last few years from him. When things aren't going his way, either on or off the court, he starts to quite openly pout about it on the floor. When his team struggles he really seems to find it hard to motivate himself the way he can when his team is playing well (see his first season in LA). This isn't at all unique to him, but it sticks out more because of how impactful he is.

I think that's a reasonable observation.

[tazzmaniac]

KD expected to play tomorrow against the Heat.   

[#1P4P]

Cavs loss places is in a virtual tie (we’ve played two more games); Heat loss, Sixers win, and Bucks win places us 4.5 behind 1st, 2.5 behind 3rd, and 1.5 behind 5th, respectively, with 18 games left.

We’re 4th in remaining SOS according to W%, the Bucks are 1st and the Bulls are 3rd in that metric so 2 out of the 5 ahead will have just as tough of a schedule. Defense travels, but Home court advantage against what will surely be a tough opponent will be comforting in a 1st round series.