Summer 2021 Fantasy Draft: Draft Thread

[theswitch]

Does MPJ really give you any more offensively than Bridges would have?  MPJ is higher volume on Denver than Bridges is on the Suns but on your team aren't they basically going to get the same offensive opportunities?   

He does, because he's a better offensive player.  Let's assume for argument that they're both 4th or 5th options.  The better offensive player is still more useful.  He's proven that he can score at a higher volume, and in some games that's a talent that will need to be relied upon.

Sometimes, primary options have tough nights.  Look at the IRL Bucks:  they had multiple nights where one or both of Jrue and Middleton were off.  If they had to go to a fourth option, would you want the guy who have proven he can give you 20ppg, or 13ppg?  The 6'10" guy who scored 20+ in half of his games (6 30+ games), or the 6'6" guy who scored in single digits twice as often as he put up 20?

I think it also depends on how the rest of the rosters get constructed. Bridges is the fifth option on that team right now, but when they go to the bench he might be elevated to the second or third option on the floor. He may not be the right guy to carry that load versus an offensive engine like Porter who would relish the usage. We've still only drafted five guys so it's hard to know how the ultimate puzzle looks.

[Who]

After drafting Lebron and JB, my PG list went like:

1. Jrue Holiday
2. Mike Conley
3. Shai Gilgeous-Alexander
4. Malcolm Brogdan
5. Kyle Lowry

I'm not saying they were the 5 best at the time of my pick. Fit was a huge factor given the Lebron offensive engine and those were the guys that would fit how I wanted the team to play.

Brogdan might be, IRL, the quintessential PG for a Lebron James team. I am real high on him. Heck, if IRL Indy decided to blow it up, Brad better be ready to dump picks on the Pacers to get Brogdan.

That is interesting. I come back to your PG list in a second because Luka and LeBron are so similar.

My dream first 3 picks were Luka, Jaylen and then SGA. I hoped for Capela and Anunoby in the final two rounds.

G: SGA
G: Jaylen
F: Luka
F: Anunoby (still would've had a problem at PF)
C: Capela (would have gotten Ayton instead)

Yeah, my Luka team took a weird turn into an all-offense + Gobert lineup from my original intent. I wanted Luka alongside four athletes. I loved SGA as my PG next to Jaylen and Luka.

Anyway, so then I drafted Zach LaVine and that shook my comfort with SGA. Something felt off. So my PG list adjusted slightly from there.

(1) CJ McCollum
(2) SGA
(3) Jrue Holiday
(4) Kyle Lowry

I did not have a clear fifth. Two undrafted PGs, maybe Lonzo, maybe Brogdon.

So I did not want a classic PG like Conley and certainly not a more ball-dominant guard like D.Fox because I wanted Luka to have the ball. Luka is the most ball-dominant player in the NBA today.

I did not want a 2nd floor general next to him. I wanted a guard who was comfortable off the ball. I liked that CJ played more as a SG than as a PG. I liked that SGA played alongside CP3. I liked that Jrue played alongside 1-2 other PGs at times in New Orleans. I liked that Lowry has frequently shared the court with a 2nd PG. So they rated higher in my thinking.

Anyway, with Jaylen I preferred SGA but with LaVine I preferred CJ McCollum. Something just did not feel right with LaVine and SGA in the way it did with Jaylen. Jaylen less needy, more mature. LaVine's ego more of an issue. SGA more of a manipulator off the bounce. McCollum more of outside shooter, an assassin. So I switched the order of 1+2 around and moved McCollum up and SGA down. They were my top two for Luka.

Ideally, I would have preferred 2 two-guards next to Luka -- which I guess I got anyway with CJ McCollum -- but I did not like any of the bigger two guards left on the board at that point so I went with a smaller guard. A PG (sort of).

[Who]

Does MPJ really give you any more offensively than Bridges would have?  MPJ is higher volume on Denver than Bridges is on the Suns but on your team aren't they basically going to get the same offensive opportunities?   

He does, because he's a better offensive player.  Let's assume for argument that they're both 4th or 5th options.  The better offensive player is still more useful.  He's proven that he can score at a higher volume, and in some games that's a talent that will need to be relied upon.

Sometimes, primary options have tough nights.  Look at the IRL Bucks:  they had multiple nights where one or both of Jrue and Middleton were off.  If they had to go to a fourth option, would you want the guy who have proven he can give you 20ppg, or 13ppg?  The 6'10" guy who scored 20+ in half of his games (6 30+ games), or the 6'6" guy who scored in single digits twice as often as he put up 20?

I think it also depends on how the rest of the rosters get constructed. Bridges is the fifth option on that team right now, but when they go to the bench he might be elevated to the second or third option on the floor. He may not be the right guy to carry that load versus an offensive engine like Porter who would relish the usage. We've still only drafted five guys so it's hard to know how the ultimate puzzle looks.

Prior to drafting MPJ - I was thinking my three scorers could rotate like Brooklyn hopes to do with Kyrie, Harden and Durant in so far as keeping 2 of the 3 on the floor at all times. Luka my Harden. CJ McCollum my Kyrie. LaVine I guess Durant. A playmaker and two assassins.

Now with MPJ on the team he can play while Luka rests and ensure I have a highly skilled big forward on the floor at all times. So MPJ will have plenty of 3rd option minutes and possibly some 2nd option minutes if he is playing well enough to rest two of the others at the same time.

MPJ is such a freak. His shooting stroke is so beautiful. So pure. Incredible range too. Needs so little time and space to get his shot off and it is pretty much unblockable when he does shoot it because of how tall and long he is. He looks so effortless out there scoring the ball. Already 19ppg in 31mpg.

I view his development as the key to Denver winning the title whether it is becoming a better defender and thus a high grade 3rd option or improving his one-on-one scoring and becoming a 25-30ppg scorer (or both!). I liked that he showed real improvement in his defense and shot selection last season. That is a good sign moving forward.


Oh and the other thing is the versatility of scoring scenarios. It is not just the percentages or volume, it is the variety of situations in which MPJ is a threat to score. He has a money midrange game, moves well off screens for catch and shoot, has nice 1-2 dribble pull ups, brilliant spot up shooter. He has an extra level of gravity from opposition defenders in terms of how closely they pay attention to him because of how lethal a shooter he is. Only a small few better him there which adds value as well.

[tazzmaniac]

Does MPJ really give you any more offensively than Bridges would have?  MPJ is higher volume on Denver than Bridges is on the Suns but on your team aren't they basically going to get the same offensive opportunities?   

He does, because he's a better offensive player.  Let's assume for argument that they're both 4th or 5th options.  The better offensive player is still more useful.  He's proven that he can score at a higher volume, and in some games that's a talent that will need to be relied upon.

Sometimes, primary options have tough nights.  Look at the IRL Bucks:  they had multiple nights where one or both of Jrue and Middleton were off.  If they had to go to a fourth option, would you want the guy who have proven he can give you 20ppg, or 13ppg?  The 6'10" guy who scored 20+ in half of his games (6 30+ games), or the 6'6" guy who scored in single digits twice as often as he put up 20?

I think it also depends on how the rest of the rosters get constructed. Bridges is the fifth option on that team right now, but when they go to the bench he might be elevated to the second or third option on the floor. He may not be the right guy to carry that load versus an offensive engine like Porter who would relish the usage. We've still only drafted five guys so it's hard to know how the ultimate puzzle looks.

How is Porter an offensive engine?  Both he and Bridges are highly assisted on their field goals. Porter is the 3rd scoring option on Denver playing off of Jokic.  Bridges is the 4th scoring option on the Suns.  If their situations were reversed, Bridges' scoring opportunities would go up and Porter's scoring opportunities would go down. 

[Somebody]

With the 10th pick, the OKC Thunder select …

Christian Wood!

He somewhat has the "put number up on bad team" moniker that can be a bit of a death sentence in these types of games, but the talent is there. Plus a big being able to shoot threes is always valuable.

He is somewhat polarising - Jvalin is a big fan of his, but I'm a bit more sceptical.

You stole Lowry from right under Somebody's nose

I like Christian Wood. I would start him ahead of Draymond Green on that team. I like the double big man combination of Wood and AD together. Two dynamic finishers as lob threats, both guys can pop to three, AD has a money midrange game and both players can drive on the dribble if given some space. They would be much tougher to defend than a lineup with Draymond in there.

I was tempted by Christian Wood for my team but I am not wild about his capacity to fit next to a paint-only big man like Gobert. I feel he needs more open lanes to swoop into on PnRs. A high post big man (like AD) is ideal for Wood at PF.

It's going to be fluid. I didn't expect Wood to be available in the 6th round because I rate him as a sub All-Star - not quite an All-Star level player like Draymond but still capable of being an impact player on good teams thanks to his combination of shooting, finishing and defence. If I need to stifle someone's offence I'd start Draymond (the offence still retains some sanity with him on the floor, there's just going to be a lot of short roll passing from him to AD), while Wood would get the nod if I want to slant my team towards offence in certain matchups.

[Somebody]

With the 10th pick, the OKC Thunder select …



Christian Wood!

He somewhat has the "put number up on bad team" moniker that can be a bit of a death sentence in these types of games, but the talent is there. Plus a big being able to shoot threes is always valuable.

He is somewhat polarising - Jvalin is a big fan of his, but I'm a bit more sceptical.

You stole Lowry from right under Somebody's nose

Definitely am sceptical on whether he's actually an All-Star level player, but there's a lot to like about his game: he's a stretch big with vertical gravity and a handle who can strain defences whether he's rolling or popping, and his defence is versatile enough to play either PF or C and make whatever team he's on stingier. He had pretty good APM values this season while playing for a broken team that wasn't really able to get the best out of him (his skillset scales better next to capable offensive talent), so there's a lot of room for optimism imo.

[Somebody]

With the 12th pick of the 5th round, the Memphis Grizzlies select  Mikal Bridges.

Good fit with his shooting and defence alongside your plethora of offensive stars

This is something I've talked about with a couple of guys regarding the draft, and then also in the discussion about the IRL Nets.

Does adding a defensive stud make sense if your entire team is built around offense?  How much can one guy do on defense?  Would assets be better spent to maximizing the offense?  Adding facilitators and ultra-efficient finishers?

You need to look at his offensive numbers.  I think he does maximize my offense.  There are few better 3+D players in the league.  I've already got 4 good facilitators.  Everyone one talks about 5 out.  You're not going to find a better 5 out team and 4 of the 5 are good at getting to the free throw line. 

As for defense, I don't think my team is that bad.  Bridges is very good.  Randle is good on-ball at the least.  Shai is average, maybe above average.  As for Dame, I'm not sure where he rates amongst all the other poor defensive PGs in the league.  Townes isn't a good defender but he's not that bad.

I love your offence - Mikal is the perfect 5th wheel on these juiced-up teams in fantasy drafts. You're not going to add much more value in that role than getting a highly efficient three point shooter who can dribble well enough to attack closeouts and make the extra pass.

I do think that your defence is a huge hole in this exercise though - your team isn't terrible on paper in a normal 30 team league, but when Towns is your centre in a fantasy draft that has teams loaded with offensive talent you probably should've looked for more defensive compensation (Wood would've been perfect at PF for your team while you probably should've gone for Lowry at SG, a Lillard/Lowry/Bridges/Wood/KAT starting 5 would've been insane on offence while being viable on the other end of the floor).

[Somebody]

Does MPJ really give you any more offensively than Bridges would have?  MPJ is higher volume on Denver than Bridges is on the Suns but on your team aren't they basically going to get the same offensive opportunities?   

He does, because he's a better offensive player.  Let's assume for argument that they're both 4th or 5th options.  The better offensive player is still more useful.  He's proven that he can score at a higher volume, and in some games that's a talent that will need to be relied upon.

Sometimes, primary options have tough nights.  Look at the IRL Bucks:  they had multiple nights where one or both of Jrue and Middleton were off.  If they had to go to a fourth option, would you want the guy who have proven he can give you 20ppg, or 13ppg?  The 6'10" guy who scored 20+ in half of his games (6 30+ games), or the 6'6" guy who scored in single digits twice as often as he put up 20?

There's only so much value in a role like that - there aren't going to be many nights where your first 3 options all fizzle out, much less 4. I don't love thinking in those lines because going by that logic, a certain guard who's now a Laker would be more useful than Bridges as a 5th option because he's a better offensive player in a vacuum - that's clearly not the case because his offensive skillset scales incredibly poorly next to better and better teammates who need the ball to operate.

FWIW I do think that Porter is significantly better than Bridges in an off-ball role. Porter did most of his damage this season as an off-ball weapon who shot lights out on volume approaching trigger-happy guards and made violating the rim with his length, athleticism and ability to penetrate without the ball via cutting a regular sight for people who watched the Nuggets this year. Just an insane off-ball player who can mix in some on-ball isolation scoring as well.

[Somebody]

Does MPJ really give you any more offensively than Bridges would have?  MPJ is higher volume on Denver than Bridges is on the Suns but on your team aren't they basically going to get the same offensive opportunities?   

He does, because he's a better offensive player.  Let's assume for argument that they're both 4th or 5th options.  The better offensive player is still more useful.  He's proven that he can score at a higher volume, and in some games that's a talent that will need to be relied upon.

Sometimes, primary options have tough nights.  Look at the IRL Bucks:  they had multiple nights where one or both of Jrue and Middleton were off.  If they had to go to a fourth option, would you want the guy who have proven he can give you 20ppg, or 13ppg?  The 6'10" guy who scored 20+ in half of his games (6 30+ games), or the 6'6" guy who scored in single digits twice as often as he put up 20?

I think it also depends on how the rest of the rosters get constructed. Bridges is the fifth option on that team right now, but when they go to the bench he might be elevated to the second or third option on the floor. He may not be the right guy to carry that load versus an offensive engine like Porter who would relish the usage. We've still only drafted five guys so it's hard to know how the ultimate puzzle looks.

How is Porter an offensive engine?  Both he and Bridges are highly assisted on their field goals. Porter is the 3rd scoring option on Denver playing off of Jokic.  Bridges is the 4th scoring option on the Suns.  If their situations were reversed, Bridges' scoring opportunities would go up and Porter's scoring opportunities would go down.

The bulk of Reggie Miller's field goals were assisted, yet the was the figurehead of elite Pacer attacks for over a decade. The idea that off-ball maestros couldn't lead an offence has to go when said players are breaking ankles with air crossovers and are creating separation regardless of the defences they're facing with handfighting akin to stepbacks and legal pushoffs.

[Somebody]

Does MPJ really give you any more offensively than Bridges would have?  MPJ is higher volume on Denver than Bridges is on the Suns but on your team aren't they basically going to get the same offensive opportunities?   

He does, because he's a better offensive player.  Let's assume for argument that they're both 4th or 5th options.  The better offensive player is still more useful.  He's proven that he can score at a higher volume, and in some games that's a talent that will need to be relied upon.

Sometimes, primary options have tough nights.  Look at the IRL Bucks:  they had multiple nights where one or both of Jrue and Middleton were off.  If they had to go to a fourth option, would you want the guy who have proven he can give you 20ppg, or 13ppg?  The 6'10" guy who scored 20+ in half of his games (6 30+ games), or the 6'6" guy who scored in single digits twice as often as he put up 20?

I think it also depends on how the rest of the rosters get constructed. Bridges is the fifth option on that team right now, but when they go to the bench he might be elevated to the second or third option on the floor. He may not be the right guy to carry that load versus an offensive engine like Porter who would relish the usage. We've still only drafted five guys so it's hard to know how the ultimate puzzle looks.

That's why we have another 4 rounds to draft bench players lol.

[tazzmaniac]

Does MPJ really give you any more offensively than Bridges would have?  MPJ is higher volume on Denver than Bridges is on the Suns but on your team aren't they basically going to get the same offensive opportunities?   

He does, because he's a better offensive player.  Let's assume for argument that they're both 4th or 5th options.  The better offensive player is still more useful.  He's proven that he can score at a higher volume, and in some games that's a talent that will need to be relied upon.

Sometimes, primary options have tough nights.  Look at the IRL Bucks:  they had multiple nights where one or both of Jrue and Middleton were off.  If they had to go to a fourth option, would you want the guy who have proven he can give you 20ppg, or 13ppg?  The 6'10" guy who scored 20+ in half of his games (6 30+ games), or the 6'6" guy who scored in single digits twice as often as he put up 20?

I think it also depends on how the rest of the rosters get constructed. Bridges is the fifth option on that team right now, but when they go to the bench he might be elevated to the second or third option on the floor. He may not be the right guy to carry that load versus an offensive engine like Porter who would relish the usage. We've still only drafted five guys so it's hard to know how the ultimate puzzle looks.

That's why we have another 4 rounds to draft bench players lol.

There are 8 rounds (4 days) left. 

[nickagneta]

NAMES PEOPLE.

Remember drafted players only when saying the names of players in the draft thread.

[Somebody]

Does MPJ really give you any more offensively than Bridges would have?  MPJ is higher volume on Denver than Bridges is on the Suns but on your team aren't they basically going to get the same offensive opportunities?   

He does, because he's a better offensive player.  Let's assume for argument that they're both 4th or 5th options.  The better offensive player is still more useful.  He's proven that he can score at a higher volume, and in some games that's a talent that will need to be relied upon.

Sometimes, primary options have tough nights.  Look at the IRL Bucks:  they had multiple nights where one or both of Jrue and Middleton were off.  If they had to go to a fourth option, would you want the guy who have proven he can give you 20ppg, or 13ppg?  The 6'10" guy who scored 20+ in half of his games (6 30+ games), or the 6'6" guy who scored in single digits twice as often as he put up 20?

I think it also depends on how the rest of the rosters get constructed. Bridges is the fifth option on that team right now, but when they go to the bench he might be elevated to the second or third option on the floor. He may not be the right guy to carry that load versus an offensive engine like Porter who would relish the usage. We've still only drafted five guys so it's hard to know how the ultimate puzzle looks.

That's why we have another 4 rounds to draft bench players lol.

There are 8 rounds (4 days) left.

Oh yeah my bad.

[nickagneta]

Anyone who is isn't doing anything this weekend, let's talk trade. PM me.

[tazzmaniac]

Anyone who is isn't doing anything this weekend, let's talk trade. PM me.

That's rather vague.  Are you looking to trade up, trade down or trade one of the players you drafted?