Rozier versus Smart

[sgrogan]

Smart period. Price does not figure into it. Smart is flat out better than Rozier. Smart is better $77mil and he is better at $97mil.

Rozier is the inferior player - why, mainly because of his limitations as a passer & playmaker as a lead guard. Also because his defense is middle of the pack which makes him hugely reliant on scoring output to influence games which he does well but not great (over-reliance on long range shooting, lack of easy hoops, makes him a streaky scorer).

Got to disagree here.

Rozier is a better player by a significant margin. Smart is somewhat better as a true point, but that advantage isn't helpful because he insists on imposing himself on the offense more than he should. Tatum and Brown can break the defense much more efficiently than Smart can. Smart slows down the offense. Rozier speeds it up,

Its been a while since Rozier ran anything here, and he typically played as a combo guard at Charlotte, but when he was most successful, he pushed the pace hard, and either created a quick advantage or gave up the ball. We should be a great running team. There were times when he over-pounded the rock like Smart does, and that wasn't effective. But given his evolution, it looks like he's dealt with his worst habits much more effectively than Marcus has.

This team needs pace, movement and support shooting way more than it needs a playmaking point, and Marcus just isn't good enough to make that work for a top team.

I don't even think he provides that much of defensive upgrade over Rozier. Marcus does most of his best work against bigger players in the lane. He's much more mediocre staying in front of talented point guards. He's just not quick enough. Rozier is actually better at that than he is.

Rozier is pretty well suited to playing a complementary role with Tatum and Brown. We should have kept him.

Rozier needs to have the ball in his hands too much to be a complement to the Jay's in my opinion. His efficiency seems to correlate well with his USG. Even though in CHA his usage isn't outrageous, he seems to play better in a more featured role. I think he would be at his best as a early off the bench combo gourd, i just don't know if his ego will allow it.

That said Marcus has ego issues as well.

[td450]

Smart period. Price does not figure into it. Smart is flat out better than Rozier. Smart is better $77mil and he is better at $97mil.

Rozier is the inferior player - why, mainly because of his limitations as a passer & playmaker as a lead guard. Also because his defense is middle of the pack which makes him hugely reliant on scoring output to influence games which he does well but not great (over-reliance on long range shooting, lack of easy hoops, makes him a streaky scorer).

Got to disagree here.

Rozier is a better player by a significant margin. Smart is somewhat better as a true point, but that advantage isn't helpful because he insists on imposing himself on the offense more than he should. Tatum and Brown can break the defense much more efficiently than Smart can. Smart slows down the offense. Rozier speeds it up,

Its been a while since Rozier ran anything here, and he typically played as a combo guard at Charlotte, but when he was most successful, he pushed the pace hard, and either created a quick advantage or gave up the ball. We should be a great running team. There were times when he over-pounded the rock like Smart does, and that wasn't effective. But given his evolution, it looks like he's dealt with his worst habits much more effectively than Marcus has.

This team needs pace, movement and support shooting way more than it needs a playmaking point, and Marcus just isn't good enough to make that work for a top team.

I don't even think he provides that much of defensive upgrade over Rozier. Marcus does most of his best work against bigger players in the lane. He's much more mediocre staying in front of talented point guards. He's just not quick enough. Rozier is actually better at that than he is.

Rozier is pretty well suited to playing a complementary role with Tatum and Brown. We should have kept him.

Rozier needs to have the ball in his hands too much to be a complement to the Jay's in my opinion. His efficiency seems to correlate well with his USG. Even though in CHA his usage isn't outrageous, he seems to play better in a more featured role. I think he would be at his best as a early off the bench combo gourd, i just don't know if his ego will allow it.

That said Marcus has ego issues as well.

He was 3rd in usage in Charlotte behind Hayward and Ball. He played a very similar role to what Kemba played here with the exact same usage %, 3rd scorer, but slightly better on offense and way better on defense.

If someone told you that you could have 2021 Kemba but no health issues, much better defense and he would start pushing the ball in transition, would you be happy with that?

[sgrogan]

Smart period. Price does not figure into it. Smart is flat out better than Rozier. Smart is better $77mil and he is better at $97mil.

Rozier is the inferior player - why, mainly because of his limitations as a passer & playmaker as a lead guard. Also because his defense is middle of the pack which makes him hugely reliant on scoring output to influence games which he does well but not great (over-reliance on long range shooting, lack of easy hoops, makes him a streaky scorer).

Got to disagree here.

Rozier is a better player by a significant margin. Smart is somewhat better as a true point, but that advantage isn't helpful because he insists on imposing himself on the offense more than he should. Tatum and Brown can break the defense much more efficiently than Smart can. Smart slows down the offense. Rozier speeds it up,

Its been a while since Rozier ran anything here, and he typically played as a combo guard at Charlotte, but when he was most successful, he pushed the pace hard, and either created a quick advantage or gave up the ball. We should be a great running team. There were times when he over-pounded the rock like Smart does, and that wasn't effective. But given his evolution, it looks like he's dealt with his worst habits much more effectively than Marcus has.

This team needs pace, movement and support shooting way more than it needs a playmaking point, and Marcus just isn't good enough to make that work for a top team.

I don't even think he provides that much of defensive upgrade over Rozier. Marcus does most of his best work against bigger players in the lane. He's much more mediocre staying in front of talented point guards. He's just not quick enough. Rozier is actually better at that than he is.

Rozier is pretty well suited to playing a complementary role with Tatum and Brown. We should have kept him.

Rozier needs to have the ball in his hands too much to be a complement to the Jay's in my opinion. His efficiency seems to correlate well with his USG. Even though in CHA his usage isn't outrageous, he seems to play better in a more featured role. I think he would be at his best as a early off the bench combo gourd, i just don't know if his ego will allow it.

That said Marcus has ego issues as well.

He was 3rd in usage in Charlotte behind Hayward and Ball. He played a very similar role to what Kemba played here with the exact same usage %, 3rd scorer, but slightly better on offense and way better on defense.

If someone told you that you could have 2021 Kemba but no health issues, much better defense and he would start pushing the ball in transition, would you be happy with that?

I'm not sure. If either would actually push the ball I would take it. It just seems that both PG and C are devalued in the league. Kemba was once an all-nba player. As you point out is he much different than Terry?

[gouki88]

Smart period. Price does not figure into it. Smart is flat out better than Rozier. Smart is better $77mil and he is better at $97mil.

Rozier is the inferior player - why, mainly because of his limitations as a passer & playmaker as a lead guard. Also because his defense is middle of the pack which makes him hugely reliant on scoring output to influence games which he does well but not great (over-reliance on long range shooting, lack of easy hoops, makes him a streaky scorer).

Got to disagree here.

Rozier is a better player by a significant margin. Smart is somewhat better as a true point, but that advantage isn't helpful because he insists on imposing himself on the offense more than he should. Tatum and Brown can break the defense much more efficiently than Smart can. Smart slows down the offense. Rozier speeds it up,

Its been a while since Rozier ran anything here, and he typically played as a combo guard at Charlotte, but when he was most successful, he pushed the pace hard, and either created a quick advantage or gave up the ball. We should be a great running team. There were times when he over-pounded the rock like Smart does, and that wasn't effective. But given his evolution, it looks like he's dealt with his worst habits much more effectively than Marcus has.

This team needs pace, movement and support shooting way more than it needs a playmaking point, and Marcus just isn't good enough to make that work for a top team.

I don't even think he provides that much of defensive upgrade over Rozier. Marcus does most of his best work against bigger players in the lane. He's much more mediocre staying in front of talented point guards. He's just not quick enough. Rozier is actually better at that than he is.

Rozier is pretty well suited to playing a complementary role with Tatum and Brown. We should have kept him.

Rozier needs to have the ball in his hands too much to be a complement to the Jay's in my opinion. His efficiency seems to correlate well with his USG. Even though in CHA his usage isn't outrageous, he seems to play better in a more featured role. I think he would be at his best as a early off the bench combo gourd, i just don't know if his ego will allow it.

That said Marcus has ego issues as well.

He was 3rd in usage in Charlotte behind Hayward and Ball. He played a very similar role to what Kemba played here with the exact same usage %, 3rd scorer, but slightly better on offense and way better on defense.

If someone told you that you could have 2021 Kemba but no health issues, much better defense and he would start pushing the ball in transition, would you be happy with that?

That's not quite accurate, just because their box scores are similar. Kemba is a better passer and a much better half-court player with his dribble penetration. Rozier also has thrived next to two above average passers either side of him in Hayward and Ball. Neither Hayward nor Ball shoot as much as either of the Jays.

Also, you keep saying things like Rozier is much better on defence. Any proof to that? Because by my eye test and by basic box numbers they're pretty identical, and advanced defensive metrics have significantly favoured Kemba since Rozier left Boston.

[sgrogan]

Smart period. Price does not figure into it. Smart is flat out better than Rozier. Smart is better $77mil and he is better at $97mil.

Rozier is the inferior player - why, mainly because of his limitations as a passer & playmaker as a lead guard. Also because his defense is middle of the pack which makes him hugely reliant on scoring output to influence games which he does well but not great (over-reliance on long range shooting, lack of easy hoops, makes him a streaky scorer).

Got to disagree here.

Rozier is a better player by a significant margin. Smart is somewhat better as a true point, but that advantage isn't helpful because he insists on imposing himself on the offense more than he should. Tatum and Brown can break the defense much more efficiently than Smart can. Smart slows down the offense. Rozier speeds it up,

Its been a while since Rozier ran anything here, and he typically played as a combo guard at Charlotte, but when he was most successful, he pushed the pace hard, and either created a quick advantage or gave up the ball. We should be a great running team. There were times when he over-pounded the rock like Smart does, and that wasn't effective. But given his evolution, it looks like he's dealt with his worst habits much more effectively than Marcus has.

This team needs pace, movement and support shooting way more than it needs a playmaking point, and Marcus just isn't good enough to make that work for a top team.

I don't even think he provides that much of defensive upgrade over Rozier. Marcus does most of his best work against bigger players in the lane. He's much more mediocre staying in front of talented point guards. He's just not quick enough. Rozier is actually better at that than he is.

Rozier is pretty well suited to playing a complementary role with Tatum and Brown. We should have kept him.

Rozier needs to have the ball in his hands too much to be a complement to the Jay's in my opinion. His efficiency seems to correlate well with his USG. Even though in CHA his usage isn't outrageous, he seems to play better in a more featured role. I think he would be at his best as a early off the bench combo gourd, i just don't know if his ego will allow it.

That said Marcus has ego issues as well.

He was 3rd in usage in Charlotte behind Hayward and Ball. He played a very similar role to what Kemba played here with the exact same usage %, 3rd scorer, but slightly better on offense and way better on defense.

If someone told you that you could have 2021 Kemba but no health issues, much better defense and he would start pushing the ball in transition, would you be happy with that?

That's not quite accurate, just because their box scores are similar. Kemba is a better passer and a much better half-court player with his dribble penetration. Rozier also has thrived next to two above average passers either side of him in Hayward and Ball. Neither Hayward nor Ball shoot as much as either of the Jays.

Also, you keep saying things like Rozier is much better on defence. Any proof to that? Because by my eye test and by basic box numbers they're pretty identical, and advanced defensive metrics have significantly favoured Kemba since Rozier left Boston.

Not to argue against myself, but Kemba's advanced defensive metrics are skewed by the amount of charges he takes. Not that, that is a bad thing, but it influences the stats.

[gouki88]

Smart period. Price does not figure into it. Smart is flat out better than Rozier. Smart is better $77mil and he is better at $97mil.

Rozier is the inferior player - why, mainly because of his limitations as a passer & playmaker as a lead guard. Also because his defense is middle of the pack which makes him hugely reliant on scoring output to influence games which he does well but not great (over-reliance on long range shooting, lack of easy hoops, makes him a streaky scorer).

Got to disagree here.

Rozier is a better player by a significant margin. Smart is somewhat better as a true point, but that advantage isn't helpful because he insists on imposing himself on the offense more than he should. Tatum and Brown can break the defense much more efficiently than Smart can. Smart slows down the offense. Rozier speeds it up,

Its been a while since Rozier ran anything here, and he typically played as a combo guard at Charlotte, but when he was most successful, he pushed the pace hard, and either created a quick advantage or gave up the ball. We should be a great running team. There were times when he over-pounded the rock like Smart does, and that wasn't effective. But given his evolution, it looks like he's dealt with his worst habits much more effectively than Marcus has.

This team needs pace, movement and support shooting way more than it needs a playmaking point, and Marcus just isn't good enough to make that work for a top team.

I don't even think he provides that much of defensive upgrade over Rozier. Marcus does most of his best work against bigger players in the lane. He's much more mediocre staying in front of talented point guards. He's just not quick enough. Rozier is actually better at that than he is.

Rozier is pretty well suited to playing a complementary role with Tatum and Brown. We should have kept him.

Rozier needs to have the ball in his hands too much to be a complement to the Jay's in my opinion. His efficiency seems to correlate well with his USG. Even though in CHA his usage isn't outrageous, he seems to play better in a more featured role. I think he would be at his best as a early off the bench combo gourd, i just don't know if his ego will allow it.

That said Marcus has ego issues as well.

He was 3rd in usage in Charlotte behind Hayward and Ball. He played a very similar role to what Kemba played here with the exact same usage %, 3rd scorer, but slightly better on offense and way better on defense.

If someone told you that you could have 2021 Kemba but no health issues, much better defense and he would start pushing the ball in transition, would you be happy with that?

That's not quite accurate, just because their box scores are similar. Kemba is a better passer and a much better half-court player with his dribble penetration. Rozier also has thrived next to two above average passers either side of him in Hayward and Ball. Neither Hayward nor Ball shoot as much as either of the Jays.

Also, you keep saying things like Rozier is much better on defence. Any proof to that? Because by my eye test and by basic box numbers they're pretty identical, and advanced defensive metrics have significantly favoured Kemba since Rozier left Boston.

Not to argue against myself, but Kemba's advanced defensive metrics are skewed by the amount of charges he takes. Not that, that is a bad thing, but it influences the stats.

That's one of the reasons I like metrics which include drawing offensive fouls as I think it's incredibly valuable. It's essentially a steal + you get a foul on the offensive player. That should definitely be valued highly

[Rosco917]

I know this is off topic...but when I think of the horrible life Terry had growing up, I have to grin and give him a tip of the hat for signing that extension.

Smart can defend 1 thru 3, and even some 4's. Marcus is a much better passer and facilitator. Smart has that extra gear when the games on the line too. However, I like Terry's scoring ability better than Smarts, but not enough to give him the nod. Both can shoot you in, and then out of a game.

I chose Smart.

[ManchesterCelticsFan]

I think Smart still a better player than Rozier, despite Rozier being a better scorer. Rozier is lucky that the right team, is in the right situation needing him at the right time to get a larger contract than Smart. Good for him.

[action781]

If we could have never traded Rozier for Kemba, had Kyrie still left, had Gordon Hayward still left and Al Horford stayed (or if we turned a Hayward TPE into getting Horford back), and all other pieces remaining fairly constant, we could be looking at a team of:

Starters: Rozier - Jaylen - Nesmith - Tatum - Horford
Bench: Smart - Pritchard - Romeo - Richardson - Time Lord (eventual starting C) - Jabari - G Williams - Kanter.

I might be in the minority here, but I would be very happy with that team this season and even more happy for the next 3 seasons.  That's a fun team that plays hard and has some chemistry that makes them fun to watch.  I think they've got a chance to compete now while they keep getting better.

So for that reason, I chose both.

And without having used this season's MLE on Schroder, we could have used it to bolster our PF spot on someone like Milsap/Markannen/Tucker to really round out our team.

[bopna]

Smart.

I just wish He will stick to his role.
No more jackin up 3s not even 10seconds into an offensive possession...that sort of stuff has frustrated every Cs fan.

[Big333223]

Smart.

I just wish He will stick to his role.
No more jackin up 3s not even 10seconds into an offensive possession...that sort of stuff has frustrated every Cs fan.

I can't wait to see how his game looks under a different coach for the first time.

Smart has DPOY potential. Rozier is a good scorer but will never be an all star. I'll take Smart.

[dannyboy35]

 I would have loved to see this team on the court together
Rozier
Brown
Hayward
Tatum
Horford

[dannyboy35]

Smart.

I just wish He will stick to his role.
No more jackin up 3s not even 10seconds into an offensive possession...that sort of stuff has frustrated every Cs fan.

I can't wait to see how his game looks under a different coach for the first time.

Smart has DPOY potential. Rozier is a good scorer but will never be an all star. I'll take Smart.

  I’m really trying to be hopeful on Marcus. But I’m not sure the current fit of players work great together offensively. Schroeder is good at penetrating snd kicking. Smart not so much at penetrating. Yet I’d love to see these two defend together. I think Smart’s d last year was pretty average but so was every Celtic really. Times Brad out.

[Big333223]

Smart.

I just wish He will stick to his role.
No more jackin up 3s not even 10seconds into an offensive possession...that sort of stuff has frustrated every Cs fan.

I can't wait to see how his game looks under a different coach for the first time.

Smart has DPOY potential. Rozier is a good scorer but will never be an all star. I'll take Smart.

  I’m really trying to be hopeful on Marcus. But I’m not sure the current fit of players work great together offensively. Schroeder is good at penetrating snd kicking. Smart not so much at penetrating. Yet I’d love to see these two defend together. I think Smart’s d last year was pretty average but so was every Celtic really. Times Brad out.

I actually like the fit. Smart is going to be the starting pg and coached that his job is to run the offense to get Tatum and Brown their best looks. Schroder is going to be the change-of-pace scoring pg off the bench. Someone who can be a pg but can also score more than Smart attacking second units.

I won't be surprised if Schroder and Smart end games together, either, but I think we're going to see a Smart that more interested in facilitating and leading than we have under Stevens.

[LilRip]

I think Smart is the better player and his contract is better too. That said, I think Rozier is worth his contract. Both seem like really good role players and starters in this league, although neither will ever sniff an all star team. Still, Smart is ELITE at something, which is rare.

If we had Rozier-Smart-Brown-Tatum-Horford, that’d be a really good team IMO