Celtics trade 2 second round picks in a S&T involving Evan Fournier to New York

[gouki88]

Can't wait to get another rental player that leaves in FA.

Only if we're too cheap to match

[sgrogan]

Can't wait to get another rental player that leaves in FA.

Only if we're too cheap to match

Or flip it for a new TPE?

[CBS_Take a Report]

So the TPE can’t be combined with a draft pick?

[gouki88]

Can't wait to get another rental player that leaves in FA.

Only if we're too cheap to match

Or flip it for a new TPE?

Never-ending TPE!

[Roy H.]

Can't wait to get another rental player that leaves in FA.

Only if we're too cheap to match

Or flip it for a new TPE?

Never-ending TPE!

Unfortunately, we’re almost out of second rounders.

[gouki88]

Can't wait to get another rental player that leaves in FA.

Only if we're too cheap to match

Or flip it for a new TPE?

Never-ending TPE!

Unfortunately, we’re almost out of second rounders.

Time to flip Carsen Edwards for two top-55 protected 2nds

[sgrogan]

So the TPE can’t be combined with a draft pick?

With the pick is OK, but not the associated money for salary matching.

[jambr380]

Can't wait to get another rental player that leaves in FA.

Only if we're too cheap to match

Or flip it for a new TPE?

Never-ending TPE!

Unfortunately, we’re almost out of second rounders.

Not really. We are only a net -2 right now. Bane/Kanter deal brought 2 and TT brought 1. We sent out 5 total in Hayward/Fournier-in/Fournier-out deals. It's not awesome, but we could be in a lot worse shape. And we still have Yam and Juhann as like pre-selected future 2nds, as well as all of our 1sts.

[Roy H.]

2022 expirings that fit:

JaMichael Green
Nurcic
Covington
Bagley

JaMychal Green ain't an expiring. He signed a 2 year / $17,000,000 contract with the Nuggets.

My favorite targets on expiring deals would be Joe ingles and Kyle Anderson. Don't think any of them are available right now. I guess Anderson might become available at the deadline (?). Thad Young may be an intriguing option as well.

Not an expiring, but I'd love us to go after Christian Wood.

Pulled off HoopsHype, I missed that. Thanks.

Joe Ingles is not getting traded IMO. He is major piece of Jazz team.  And not the type of dude to demand a trade.

Yeah, I don't expect Ingles to become available either. That said, I reckon he'd be an amazing fit on the C's.

Not sure what's the point in talking about expiring contracts anymore. I mean, Smart signed an extension. We won't have max cap space next summer.

WE just got a $17.1 M TPE exception.   That is why I was listing expiring contracts up to that amount.  That is how we got Fournier this season, using TPE.  Nothing to do with cap space.

I think the TPE is a minimum of $18.1 million.  If Fournier got $79 million, that’s the lowest his year 1 salary could be with max raises to get to $78 million.  Since his last year isn’t guaranteed, it may even be a little higher, as often the non-guaranteed year doesn’t include a raise so the player gets more in guaranteed money.  But that’s unclear as of now.

I figured the difference was unlikely bonuses, as all the reporting said "up to" $78 million.  That is indeed the case:

Bobby Marks: Breakdown of the Evan Fournier contract in NYK 21/22- $17.14M 22/23- $18M 23/24- $18.85M 24/25- $19M (Team) Total of $73M $1.5M in unlikely bonuses per season (total of $6M)

So basically it's a 3 year, $54 million deal.  To me, that seems like a pretty solid contract for the Knicks.

[Jvalin]

2022 expirings that fit:

JaMichael Green
Nurcic
Covington
Bagley

JaMychal Green ain't an expiring. He signed a 2 year / $17,000,000 contract with the Nuggets.

My favorite targets on expiring deals would be Joe ingles and Kyle Anderson. Don't think any of them are available right now. I guess Anderson might become available at the deadline (?). Thad Young may be an intriguing option as well.

Not an expiring, but I'd love us to go after Christian Wood.

Pulled off HoopsHype, I missed that. Thanks.

Joe Ingles is not getting traded IMO. He is major piece of Jazz team.  And not the type of dude to demand a trade.

Yeah, I don't expect Ingles to become available either. That said, I reckon he'd be an amazing fit on the C's.

Not sure what's the point in talking about expiring contracts anymore. I mean, Smart signed an extension. We won't have max cap space next summer.

There are several ways to still create max cap space next summer

No, there are not. Even if we dump everybody else (which won't happen obviously), we still won't have enough cap space to sign Beal.

1. Tatum $30,351,780
2. Brown $26,669,643
3. Smart $17,207,142
4. rookie minimum $979,466
5. rookie minimum $979,466
6. rookie minimum $979,466
7. rookie minimum $979,466
8. rookie minimum $979,466
9. rookie minimum $979,466
10. rookie minimum $979,466
11. rookie minimum $979,466
12. rookie minimum $979,466

dead salary
Jackson $92,857

Total: $83,136,616

Cap Projection: $119,000,000

This means we'd have $35,863,384 in cap space. Beal's max will start at $41,650,000. Even in this extreme and totally unrealistic scenario, we'd still be $5,786,616 short of Beal's max.

If you include Pritchard and Nesmith and stretch Horford's non-guaranteed salary for next season, we won't even have enough cap space to go after max free agents with 0-6 years of experience. Their max starts at 25% of the cap, but max candidates are usually restricted FAs anyway.

Yeah the only way to get a max player is to trade for one. The Smart deal allows us to use Horford’s salary with a package of young guys and picks to try and go after someone who becomes available.

We could have done that before the Smart deal too.

Don't think the Smart deal changes all that much, expect from the fact that we won't have max cap space next summer. Plenty of posters didn't want us to go after a max free agent anyway, cause we'd have to gut our team in the process. Maybe it's better this way. Like you said, we can still go after a 3rd star via a trade. If anything, the Smart deal makes it a bit easier to go after Ben Simmons.  I mean, Philly would probably have zero interest in re-acquiring Horford. I assume they'd prefer to have Smart on a 5-year contract rather than on an expiring.

Smart* + Schroder + JRich + pick(s) for Simmons would be a valid trade, salary-wise.

That said, I fully realize Simmons is a polarizing player. Not sure whether Brad likes his game.

*I believe we can trade Smart at the deadline. Normally we'd have to wait 6 months till after he signed his extension, but I believe the rules have changed due to the shortened season.

Where did you get your rookie minimum? I have $943,012 from spotrac.
Also JB has some likely incentives that bring him to $28,741,071 by my accounting.

I did my own analysis and then saw your post, they stack up pretty well.

BTW:How do I give Tommy Points?

I got the rookie minimum number from realgm.

(click on image to enlarge)

https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/info/minimum_scale

Not sure which is the correct number. I think sportac is a very reliable source. Certainly more reliable than hoopshype. That said, they make a few mistakes here and there. For instance, they got Fournier's starting salary at $18,139,535. Is this correct? If so, our TPE would be $18.24M instead of $17.2M. I mean, they may be right about Fournier too. I guess we'll have to wait and see.

Agreed on Brown's incentives. Didn't include them cause I was describing the best case scenario. I didn't even include Romeo or our 2022 pick. This was an extreme scenario, just to prove that we won't have max cap space next offseason.

[Celtics4ever]

Perhaps you missed everyone taking the supermax's this off-season.   For a while, people wanted to take tours in free agency and get special treatment but with Covid people don't seem to be doing that as much.  People aside from Ball took the money and security.

There was never, not is there any guarantee that Beal will come here even if he have the cap space.

[Stig]

https://twitter.com/ny_knickspr/status/1427636510065664020?s=21

He's our Pitino of the 21st century lads

Can someone pls explain why this is better than signing Evan Fournier and then trade him later if needed?

[wdleehi]

https://twitter.com/ny_knickspr/status/1427636510065664020?s=21

He's our Pitino of the 21st century lads

Can someone pls explain why this is better than signing Evan Fournier and then trade him later if needed?

One thing I  was thinking about was the Celtics can use it in a trade for a big time player whose team wants to cut payroll around the move.

For example trading for Beal.   The Celtics can match Beals salaries with just players  but can then take on Bertan's salary into the trade exception allowing the Wizards to clear salary. 

[johnnygreen]

I would like to see Brad use this TPE or the one from the Tristian Thompson trade, to acquire a player like Gallinari, Myles Turner, Terrence Ross, Harrison Barnes, or Derrick Favors.

[Celtics2021]

https://twitter.com/ny_knickspr/status/1427636510065664020?s=21

He's our Pitino of the 21st century lads

Can someone pls explain why this is better than signing Evan Fournier and then trade him later if needed?

Sure.  Firstly, the Celtics didn’t think Fournier is worth the money is getting — it’s why they didn’t offer it to him.  If he’s not worth that money, it will make a contract less tradable.  Time will tell who’s right, but that’s a critical component to their decision-making.

Secondly, it’s much easier to complete a future trade if you don’t have to worry about matching salaries.  If the Celtics wanted to turn Fournier into a different player, they would have to hope that the team with the player the Celtics want liked Fournier enough to trade for him, as opposed to other players who might make less money/have a shorter contract.  If they don’t like Fournier, then either the trade wouldn’t go through or the Celtics would have to send out extra draft compensation, likely a 1st round pick, to make it work.

Essentially the Celtics could have ended up with one of two combinations of players/assets:

Evan Fournier
Moses Brown
A late 2023 2nd rounder

Or

Josh Richardson
Dennis Schröder
$17.1 million TPE

I think you can make an argument for either.  I prefer the latter because I really did not enjoy Evan Fournier’s defense in the playoffs, but ask me again if Richardson and Schröder keep shooting  in the low 30s from 3 and I may have a different answer.