Shouldn't we give Marcus Smart the chance to emerge as another Jrue Holiday?

[Roy H.]

The elephant in the room is his extension...what do you pay him for that chance to emerge?

He's likely expecting in the ballpark of 4 yrs 100 mil

When he plays the way he's capable of playing, he's injury prone - and also not getting any younger. 
But on top of that, last season he stopped playing with the same intensity that he has in the past.  Maybe a new coach can draw that out of him again, but then we go back to my point.

Time to move him.

The most the Celtics can offer him as an extension this summer is 4 years, 74.4 million guaranteed, with another $2.7 million in potential incentives.  I think that’d be a fair deal for both side — the Celtics win by keeping him from hitting free agency where he could get more, and he protects himself against injury, which we’ve seen is a real threat to most any NBA player lately.  That’s NBA starter money, but not NBA star money, and is a perfectly reasonable amount to play your 3rd or 4th best player.

That would be a very big mistake. It is not a good plan to settle on him as your 4th best player. That means your team has problems that need to be solved.

That's silly.  With the exception of the Durant-era Warriors, no recent title team hasn't had a 4th-best player with an obvious imperfection.  If an All-NBA defender isn't qualified to be a starter on your team, your expectations are frankly unrealistic.

Yeah, I'm okay with Smart and Fournier as our 4th and 5th best players going forward.  It's all about finding the guy who slots in as our 3rd best player. 

Looking at our starting lineup:

Horford
Tatum
Fournier
Brown
Smart

I really like the balance there.  In fact, if Horford was a handful of years younger, I'd be completely fine with that team as my core.

But he's not.  Which is why Ime should start Rob Williams over Al Horford.  And probably will.

He shouldn't really. Horford is a better passer and much better shooter. I think he makes the Jays better than Williams does, not to mention Williams' propensity to get hurt when playing big minutes

Yep.  I also think that Williams is better as an energy player off the bench.

[celticsclay]

The elephant in the room is his extension...what do you pay him for that chance to emerge?

He's likely expecting in the ballpark of 4 yrs 100 mil

When he plays the way he's capable of playing, he's injury prone - and also not getting any younger. 
But on top of that, last season he stopped playing with the same intensity that he has in the past.  Maybe a new coach can draw that out of him again, but then we go back to my point.

Time to move him.

The most the Celtics can offer him as an extension this summer is 4 years, 74.4 million guaranteed, with another $2.7 million in potential incentives.  I think that’d be a fair deal for both side — the Celtics win by keeping him from hitting free agency where he could get more, and he protects himself against injury, which we’ve seen is a real threat to most any NBA player lately.  That’s NBA starter money, but not NBA star money, and is a perfectly reasonable amount to play your 3rd or 4th best player.

That would be a very big mistake. It is not a good plan to settle on him as your 4th best player. That means your team has problems that need to be solved.

That's silly.  With the exception of the Durant-era Warriors, no recent title team hasn't had a 4th-best player with an obvious imperfection.  If an All-NBA defender isn't qualified to be a starter on your team, your expectations are frankly unrealistic.

Yeah, I'm okay with Smart and Fournier as our 4th and 5th best players going forward.  It's all about finding the guy who slots in as our 3rd best player. 

Looking at our starting lineup:

Horford
Tatum
Fournier
Brown
Smart

I really like the balance there.  In fact, if Horford was a handful of years younger, I'd be completely fine with that team as my core.

But he's not.  Which is why Ime should start Rob Williams over Al Horford.  And probably will.

He shouldn't really. Horford is a better passer and much better shooter. I think he makes the Jays better than Williams does, not to mention Williams' propensity to get hurt when playing big minutes

Yep.  I also think that Williams is better as an energy player off the bench.

This year? Or forever?

[gouki88]

The elephant in the room is his extension...what do you pay him for that chance to emerge?

He's likely expecting in the ballpark of 4 yrs 100 mil

When he plays the way he's capable of playing, he's injury prone - and also not getting any younger. 
But on top of that, last season he stopped playing with the same intensity that he has in the past.  Maybe a new coach can draw that out of him again, but then we go back to my point.

Time to move him.

The most the Celtics can offer him as an extension this summer is 4 years, 74.4 million guaranteed, with another $2.7 million in potential incentives.  I think that’d be a fair deal for both side — the Celtics win by keeping him from hitting free agency where he could get more, and he protects himself against injury, which we’ve seen is a real threat to most any NBA player lately.  That’s NBA starter money, but not NBA star money, and is a perfectly reasonable amount to play your 3rd or 4th best player.

That would be a very big mistake. It is not a good plan to settle on him as your 4th best player. That means your team has problems that need to be solved.

That's silly.  With the exception of the Durant-era Warriors, no recent title team hasn't had a 4th-best player with an obvious imperfection.  If an All-NBA defender isn't qualified to be a starter on your team, your expectations are frankly unrealistic.

Yeah, I'm okay with Smart and Fournier as our 4th and 5th best players going forward.  It's all about finding the guy who slots in as our 3rd best player. 

Looking at our starting lineup:

Horford
Tatum
Fournier
Brown
Smart

I really like the balance there.  In fact, if Horford was a handful of years younger, I'd be completely fine with that team as my core.

But he's not.  Which is why Ime should start Rob Williams over Al Horford.  And probably will.

He shouldn't really. Horford is a better passer and much better shooter. I think he makes the Jays better than Williams does, not to mention Williams' propensity to get hurt when playing big minutes

Yep.  I also think that Williams is better as an energy player off the bench.

This year? Or forever?

Until he can play 26+ MPG without getting hurt every second game. If that ever happens

[footey]

The elephant in the room is his extension...what do you pay him for that chance to emerge?

He's likely expecting in the ballpark of 4 yrs 100 mil

When he plays the way he's capable of playing, he's injury prone - and also not getting any younger. 
But on top of that, last season he stopped playing with the same intensity that he has in the past.  Maybe a new coach can draw that out of him again, but then we go back to my point.

Time to move him.

The most the Celtics can offer him as an extension this summer is 4 years, 74.4 million guaranteed, with another $2.7 million in potential incentives.  I think that’d be a fair deal for both side — the Celtics win by keeping him from hitting free agency where he could get more, and he protects himself against injury, which we’ve seen is a real threat to most any NBA player lately.  That’s NBA starter money, but not NBA star money, and is a perfectly reasonable amount to play your 3rd or 4th best player.

That would be a very big mistake. It is not a good plan to settle on him as your 4th best player. That means your team has problems that need to be solved.

That's silly.  With the exception of the Durant-era Warriors, no recent title team hasn't had a 4th-best player with an obvious imperfection.  If an All-NBA defender isn't qualified to be a starter on your team, your expectations are frankly unrealistic.

Yeah, I'm okay with Smart and Fournier as our 4th and 5th best players going forward.  It's all about finding the guy who slots in as our 3rd best player. 

Looking at our starting lineup:

Horford
Tatum
Fournier
Brown
Smart

I really like the balance there.  In fact, if Horford was a handful of years younger, I'd be completely fine with that team as my core.

But he's not.  Which is why Ime should start Rob Williams over Al Horford.  And probably will.

He shouldn't really. Horford is a better passer and much better shooter. I think he makes the Jays better than Williams does, not to mention Williams' propensity to get hurt when playing big minutes

Open point as to who’s the better passer. Sure Al is better outside shooter but Rob is more efficient scorer. Much better rebounder. And better defender. Think this will be clearer start of next season. Al will have role on team but will be secondary to Rob.

[PAOBoston]

The elephant in the room is his extension...what do you pay him for that chance to emerge?

He's likely expecting in the ballpark of 4 yrs 100 mil

When he plays the way he's capable of playing, he's injury prone - and also not getting any younger. 
But on top of that, last season he stopped playing with the same intensity that he has in the past.  Maybe a new coach can draw that out of him again, but then we go back to my point.

Time to move him.

The most the Celtics can offer him as an extension this summer is 4 years, 74.4 million guaranteed, with another $2.7 million in potential incentives.  I think that’d be a fair deal for both side — the Celtics win by keeping him from hitting free agency where he could get more, and he protects himself against injury, which we’ve seen is a real threat to most any NBA player lately.  That’s NBA starter money, but not NBA star money, and is a perfectly reasonable amount to play your 3rd or 4th best player.

That would be a very big mistake. It is not a good plan to settle on him as your 4th best player. That means your team has problems that need to be solved.

That's silly.  With the exception of the Durant-era Warriors, no recent title team hasn't had a 4th-best player with an obvious imperfection.  If an All-NBA defender isn't qualified to be a starter on your team, your expectations are frankly unrealistic.

Yeah, I'm okay with Smart and Fournier as our 4th and 5th best players going forward.  It's all about finding the guy who slots in as our 3rd best player. 

Looking at our starting lineup:

Horford
Tatum
Fournier
Brown
Smart

I really like the balance there.  In fact, if Horford was a handful of years younger, I'd be completely fine with that team as my core.

But he's not.  Which is why Ime should start Rob Williams over Al Horford.  And probably will.

He shouldn't really. Horford is a better passer and much better shooter. I think he makes the Jays better than Williams does, not to mention Williams' propensity to get hurt when playing big minutes

Open point as to who’s the better passer. Sure Al is better outside shooter but Rob is more efficient scorer. Much better rebounder. And better defender. Think this will be clearer start of next season. Al will have role on team but will be secondary to Rob.

Pretty debatable if Rob is actually the better defender. Maybe better shot blocker. Williams still doesn’t know how to defend a pick n roll. Also likely won’t matter since Williams will have some sort of injury after 20 games.

[Roy H.]

The elephant in the room is his extension...what do you pay him for that chance to emerge?

He's likely expecting in the ballpark of 4 yrs 100 mil

When he plays the way he's capable of playing, he's injury prone - and also not getting any younger. 
But on top of that, last season he stopped playing with the same intensity that he has in the past.  Maybe a new coach can draw that out of him again, but then we go back to my point.

Time to move him.

The most the Celtics can offer him as an extension this summer is 4 years, 74.4 million guaranteed, with another $2.7 million in potential incentives.  I think that’d be a fair deal for both side — the Celtics win by keeping him from hitting free agency where he could get more, and he protects himself against injury, which we’ve seen is a real threat to most any NBA player lately.  That’s NBA starter money, but not NBA star money, and is a perfectly reasonable amount to play your 3rd or 4th best player.

That would be a very big mistake. It is not a good plan to settle on him as your 4th best player. That means your team has problems that need to be solved.

That's silly.  With the exception of the Durant-era Warriors, no recent title team hasn't had a 4th-best player with an obvious imperfection.  If an All-NBA defender isn't qualified to be a starter on your team, your expectations are frankly unrealistic.

Yeah, I'm okay with Smart and Fournier as our 4th and 5th best players going forward.  It's all about finding the guy who slots in as our 3rd best player. 

Looking at our starting lineup:

Horford
Tatum
Fournier
Brown
Smart

I really like the balance there.  In fact, if Horford was a handful of years younger, I'd be completely fine with that team as my core.

But he's not.  Which is why Ime should start Rob Williams over Al Horford.  And probably will.

He shouldn't really. Horford is a better passer and much better shooter. I think he makes the Jays better than Williams does, not to mention Williams' propensity to get hurt when playing big minutes

Open point as to who’s the better passer. Sure Al is better outside shooter but Rob is more efficient scorer. Much better rebounder. And better defender. Think this will be clearer start of next season. Al will have role on team but will be secondary to Rob.

I'm curious to see your argument regarding Williams being an equal or better passer than Horford.

[Celtics4ever]

I think Rob is at least as good as passer as Al.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBgc_gJrmaM

[footey]

I think Rob is at least as good as passer as Al.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBgc_gJrmaM

This.

[footey]

Funny, Smart was primarily a point guard coming out of college.  Was known for being a very good passer and facilitator. Biggest knock on him was his outside shooting (shocking). 

Maybe a case can be made that he is more comfortable playing the point guard position, and will flourish there.  Seems he can start by cutting down on the number of 3 point shots he takes.   His best season, 2018-19, he only took about 4 a game, and his 3point % was an acceptable 36%.  Chris Paul is not a great 3 point shooter, but limits this weakness by limiting the number of 3s he takes.

Maybe the better goal is for Marcus to aspire to be like Chris Paul. Poor man version, but bigger.  I think that is a better prototype than Jrue Holiday, who is just built differently.  Not saying Marcus will be as good as CP, that's ridiculous. But if he could study his film and emulate him more, starting with shot selection, that would be a great step forward.

See scouting report on Marcus when he was at OK State:

https://www.nbadraft.net/players/marcus-smart/

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/marcus-smart-6284/

[Moranis]

The elephant in the room is his extension...what do you pay him for that chance to emerge?

He's likely expecting in the ballpark of 4 yrs 100 mil

When he plays the way he's capable of playing, he's injury prone - and also not getting any younger. 
But on top of that, last season he stopped playing with the same intensity that he has in the past.  Maybe a new coach can draw that out of him again, but then we go back to my point.

Time to move him.

The most the Celtics can offer him as an extension this summer is 4 years, 74.4 million guaranteed, with another $2.7 million in potential incentives.  I think that’d be a fair deal for both side — the Celtics win by keeping him from hitting free agency where he could get more, and he protects himself against injury, which we’ve seen is a real threat to most any NBA player lately.  That’s NBA starter money, but not NBA star money, and is a perfectly reasonable amount to play your 3rd or 4th best player.

That would be a very big mistake. It is not a good plan to settle on him as your 4th best player. That means your team has problems that need to be solved.

That's silly.  With the exception of the Durant-era Warriors, no recent title team hasn't had a 4th-best player with an obvious imperfection.  If an All-NBA defender isn't qualified to be a starter on your team, your expectations are frankly unrealistic.

Yeah, I'm okay with Smart and Fournier as our 4th and 5th best players going forward.  It's all about finding the guy who slots in as our 3rd best player. 

Looking at our starting lineup:

Horford
Tatum
Fournier
Brown
Smart

I really like the balance there.  In fact, if Horford was a handful of years younger, I'd be completely fine with that team as my core.

But he's not.  Which is why Ime should start Rob Williams over Al Horford.  And probably will.

He shouldn't really. Horford is a better passer and much better shooter. I think he makes the Jays better than Williams does, not to mention Williams' propensity to get hurt when playing big minutes

Open point as to who’s the better passer. Sure Al is better outside shooter but Rob is more efficient scorer. Much better rebounder. And better defender. Think this will be clearer start of next season. Al will have role on team but will be secondary to Rob.

I'm curious to see your argument regarding Williams being an equal or better passer than Horford.

I'm not sure he is a better defender either.  Certainly RW is a much better shot blocker, but there is more to defense than just blocking shots.  RW is also a better athlete which can help with other areas, but Horford just has a significantly greater knowledge base and IQ, which he uses quite well.  At some point, RW will be the better defender, I'm just not so sure it will be next year.

[td450]

The elephant in the room is his extension...what do you pay him for that chance to emerge?

He's likely expecting in the ballpark of 4 yrs 100 mil

When he plays the way he's capable of playing, he's injury prone - and also not getting any younger. 
But on top of that, last season he stopped playing with the same intensity that he has in the past.  Maybe a new coach can draw that out of him again, but then we go back to my point.

Time to move him.

The most the Celtics can offer him as an extension this summer is 4 years, 74.4 million guaranteed, with another $2.7 million in potential incentives.  I think that’d be a fair deal for both side — the Celtics win by keeping him from hitting free agency where he could get more, and he protects himself against injury, which we’ve seen is a real threat to most any NBA player lately.  That’s NBA starter money, but not NBA star money, and is a perfectly reasonable amount to play your 3rd or 4th best player.

That would be a very big mistake. It is not a good plan to settle on him as your 4th best player. That means your team has problems that need to be solved.

That's silly.  With the exception of the Durant-era Warriors, no recent title team hasn't had a 4th-best player with an obvious imperfection.  If an All-NBA defender isn't qualified to be a starter on your team, your expectations are frankly unrealistic.

Fair enough, as generalizations go. But that works because those recent title teams have had some all-time great players. Tatum and Brown would each have to make two more leaps forward before the Celtics can afford to think that way, and win a title.

I also think Smart is different. He may do better next year, but he declined considerably as a defender last year. Its also true that almost any other all-nba defense type role players that played for great teams knew they had to be disciplined offensively. He's never accepted that.

[gouki88]

The elephant in the room is his extension...what do you pay him for that chance to emerge?

He's likely expecting in the ballpark of 4 yrs 100 mil

When he plays the way he's capable of playing, he's injury prone - and also not getting any younger. 
But on top of that, last season he stopped playing with the same intensity that he has in the past.  Maybe a new coach can draw that out of him again, but then we go back to my point.

Time to move him.

The most the Celtics can offer him as an extension this summer is 4 years, 74.4 million guaranteed, with another $2.7 million in potential incentives.  I think that’d be a fair deal for both side — the Celtics win by keeping him from hitting free agency where he could get more, and he protects himself against injury, which we’ve seen is a real threat to most any NBA player lately.  That’s NBA starter money, but not NBA star money, and is a perfectly reasonable amount to play your 3rd or 4th best player.

That would be a very big mistake. It is not a good plan to settle on him as your 4th best player. That means your team has problems that need to be solved.

That's silly.  With the exception of the Durant-era Warriors, no recent title team hasn't had a 4th-best player with an obvious imperfection.  If an All-NBA defender isn't qualified to be a starter on your team, your expectations are frankly unrealistic.

Yeah, I'm okay with Smart and Fournier as our 4th and 5th best players going forward.  It's all about finding the guy who slots in as our 3rd best player. 

Looking at our starting lineup:

Horford
Tatum
Fournier
Brown
Smart

I really like the balance there.  In fact, if Horford was a handful of years younger, I'd be completely fine with that team as my core.

But he's not.  Which is why Ime should start Rob Williams over Al Horford.  And probably will.

He shouldn't really. Horford is a better passer and much better shooter. I think he makes the Jays better than Williams does, not to mention Williams' propensity to get hurt when playing big minutes

Open point as to who’s the better passer. Sure Al is better outside shooter but Rob is more efficient scorer. Much better rebounder. And better defender. Think this will be clearer start of next season. Al will have role on team but will be secondary to Rob.

Not really

[Roy H.]

The elephant in the room is his extension...what do you pay him for that chance to emerge?

He's likely expecting in the ballpark of 4 yrs 100 mil

When he plays the way he's capable of playing, he's injury prone - and also not getting any younger. 
But on top of that, last season he stopped playing with the same intensity that he has in the past.  Maybe a new coach can draw that out of him again, but then we go back to my point.

Time to move him.

The most the Celtics can offer him as an extension this summer is 4 years, 74.4 million guaranteed, with another $2.7 million in potential incentives.  I think that’d be a fair deal for both side — the Celtics win by keeping him from hitting free agency where he could get more, and he protects himself against injury, which we’ve seen is a real threat to most any NBA player lately.  That’s NBA starter money, but not NBA star money, and is a perfectly reasonable amount to play your 3rd or 4th best player.

That would be a very big mistake. It is not a good plan to settle on him as your 4th best player. That means your team has problems that need to be solved.

That's silly.  With the exception of the Durant-era Warriors, no recent title team hasn't had a 4th-best player with an obvious imperfection.  If an All-NBA defender isn't qualified to be a starter on your team, your expectations are frankly unrealistic.

Yeah, I'm okay with Smart and Fournier as our 4th and 5th best players going forward.  It's all about finding the guy who slots in as our 3rd best player. 

Looking at our starting lineup:

Horford
Tatum
Fournier
Brown
Smart

I really like the balance there.  In fact, if Horford was a handful of years younger, I'd be completely fine with that team as my core.

But he's not.  Which is why Ime should start Rob Williams over Al Horford.  And probably will.

He shouldn't really. Horford is a better passer and much better shooter. I think he makes the Jays better than Williams does, not to mention Williams' propensity to get hurt when playing big minutes

Open point as to who’s the better passer. Sure Al is better outside shooter but Rob is more efficient scorer. Much better rebounder. And better defender. Think this will be clearer start of next season. Al will have role on team but will be secondary to Rob.

Not really

You weren’t convinced by the YouTube highlight reel? Ha ha.