Does Jaylen need to accept the Pippen role for this to work

[mrceltics2013]

I think they are both Pippens and that’s the issue.

[Roy H.]

I think they are both Pippens and that’s the issue.

What's a "Pippen" to you?

[Who]

No. That is not Jaylen's skill-set. He would do a crappy job as a Pippen-like player. He needs to be Jaylen Brown. The best Jaylen Brown he is capable of being.

Not imitating a player he has little similarity to. A player he'll never be anything that a horribly poor imitation of because he does not have the skills to imitate that player.

Be the best Jaylen Brown Jaylen is able to be.
That is what he needs to do.

[Moranis]

Pippen was amazing as a number 2 guy because he was a natural PG in high school and college then grew a bunch. So he was a SF but with excellent PG skills that fit perfectly alongside MJ as a playmaker.

Neither Jay has that passing/playmaking ability that raises others' games. And last year it sure seemed that both were being coached to be number 1 guys.

I actually think Udoka has to integrate them and let them play more together and off each other instead of letting both players taking turns being "the guy". I think the best case scenario is if they can be #1A and #1B players that play in unison, rather as separate lead players taking turns dominating the ball

You've said this before and as I pointed out the last time you said this both Tatum and Brown played PG in high school.  In fact Tatum was a PG for most of his high school career (his last year he had gotten bigger and moved to the wing). 

Here is a quote from Stevens during Tatum's rookie year.

“He’s 6-9, but he really plays point guard. He played point guard all throughout high school. In college, he’s 6-9, so he has to play the 3 and the 4,” Brad remarked. “He has a mismatch every night and it’s an unfair advantage because he can put the ball on the floor, shoot threes, and he has mid-post game. So he’s pretty much giving you whatever you want.”

[Moranis]

no.  Jordan was clearly Jordan, the king.  The next best player, which happened to be Pippen, was naturally going to be second fiddle, repeat naturally.

Jaylen Brown at this early point in his career would have to be psychotic to tell himself that he will be a lifelong #2 to Tatum.  To do so would be completely unnatural.

Both Jaylen and Jayson have to continue to try to improve and become better players, and to play off each other and off of others. 

The C's are below 3-5 other teams in the East right now, a bit early for Jordan Pippen talk....

Not sure about 'lifelong #2" or about Boston being a Jordan-bulls tier team anytime soon, but for the moment i think the base idea makes a lot of sense.

I really do get the feeling that Tatum and Brown both kinda think they are the best player on this team right now.  Only one of them is right.  Some will hate me for saying it, but I think it's blatantly obvious that it's Tatum, who is clearly a step ahead of Brown.  For that reason it makes sense to me that if the team is to be succesful, Brown will need to at some point accept he's the #2 - at least for the time being.

It's not just a talent-level thing either, it's also a play style thing.  Tatum came in to this league with everybody well aware that scoring was his thing.  He's a natural scorer in every way.  That's always been his cheif talent, and he's embraced that and well on the way to being a top tier player in that discipline.

Brown on the other hand was always sold as the athletic guy with special potential at attacking the basket and defence...which is ultimately the Pippen mould.  Yet this year especially he seems to have largely abandoned those disciplines in pursuit of trying to outscore (and out jumpshoot) Tatum.  His defence has clearly dropped off (at least to my eyes and i belive the stats too), his free throw rate has fallen off a cliff since the early part of his career, and he's throwing up jumpers at Tatum-like rates.

Maybe that can work, but I really do think that Boston is a better team when Tatum is being Tatum (i.e. the volume scorer / shooter who can also defend) and Brown is being Brown (the athletic slasher/defender who can also shoot/score).   

Maybe I'll be proven wrong in the upcoming season and they will show me that they are able to excel as they are with some roster and coaching changes...time will tell

Can I ask where you get this from?

I'm thinking the total opposite. I think they each know their strengths and weaknesses pretty well.

As for the second highlighted part; what? Do you even look at the stats?

Jaylen is attempting and making more freethrows than ever
Jaylen is attempting and making more 2 pointers (except last year, when he was 0.007 better)
Jaylen is attempting and making more 3 pointers
His Blocks, Steals and Assists are up too.

He's not better than Tatum at 2 pointers, but he's better at 3s.

"At least to my eyes and i belive the stats too"? Well, your eyes are wrong, and the stats don't lie?

"Off a cliff"? Man. Throw me off that same cliff please.

I wanna get better too.

Brown's rookie year his FTr was .293, the best of his career.  Last year his FTr was .225, the lowest of his career.

[Rosco917]

On a team that is noted for not playing together and not moving the ball well, Jaylen can literally go several games in a row without an assist. His assist to turnover ratio is poor. His free throw shooting is also below average.

His 3 point shooting has been a positive, and in todays NBA that's certainly a plus. Where Brown really excels is in the open court in an up-pace game, exactly where the Celtics seldom play.

[Who]

On a team that is noted for not playing together and not moving the ball well, Jaylen can literally go several games in a row without an assist. His assist to turnover ratio is poor. His free throw shooting is also below average.

His 3 point shooting has been a positive, and in todays NBA that's certainly a plus. Where Brown really excels is in the open court in an up-pace game, exactly where the Celtics seldom play.

I think they (or we) need to change focus from this statistic to one based around FGA to AST ratio. Or FGAs + FTAs to AST ratio. That would be a much better ratio for scoring to playmaking ability. How a player (particularly a scorer) balances his responsibilities between the two.

I wish that statistic was made.

I believe it would highlight a lot of problematic players like a young Rudy Gay who would take 15+ FGAs and get 2 assists per game. Guys who are only out for themselves and/or cannot make their teammates better.

[td450]

On a team that is noted for not playing together and not moving the ball well, Jaylen can literally go several games in a row without an assist. His assist to turnover ratio is poor. His free throw shooting is also below average.

His 3 point shooting has been a positive, and in todays NBA that's certainly a plus. Where Brown really excels is in the open court in an up-pace game, exactly where the Celtics seldom play.

OK, but look at the title of this post. Jaylen has always been asked by the team to play a certain way. We know he would like to handle the ball more because he has said so, while to his credit, he has consistently done what was asked.

He just doesn't act as a primary ball handler very often. Tatum, Walker, Smart, Al when he's been here, Fournier, whatever backup point is in, all handle the ball more. When he gets it, he does something immediately, or moves the ball.

I think he could transition to a larger ball handling role in a few months if he had to, because he is amazingly adaptable. But he has always fit into much tighter constraints, while Tatum has been allowed to work out running the offense from day one. As he has scored more, he has expanded his ball handling a bit, but the only player I can think of who is better at scoring with less of a need to pound the rock is Klay Thompson.

Walker didn't adapt much. Smart doesn't adapt much. Tatum has a full green light. I would say the answer to this post is that Jaylen has always been willing to adapt to what the team asks of him, more than anyone else.

[slamtheking]

I think they are both Pippens and that’s the issue.

What's a "Pippen" to you?

a Broadway musical?

[KG Living Legend]

No. That is not Jaylen's skill-set. He would do a crappy job as a Pippen-like player. He needs to be Jaylen Brown. The best Jaylen Brown he is capable of being.

Not imitating a player he has little similarity to. A player he'll never be anything that a horribly poor imitation of because he does not have the skills to imitate that player.

Be the best Jaylen Brown Jaylen is able to be.
That is what he needs to do.

.I see your point Who. However I really mean does he have to accept the fact that he's the second banana in Boston.

[BudweiserCeltic]

No. That is not Jaylen's skill-set. He would do a crappy job as a Pippen-like player. He needs to be Jaylen Brown. The best Jaylen Brown he is capable of being.

Not imitating a player he has little similarity to. A player he'll never be anything that a horribly poor imitation of because he does not have the skills to imitate that player.

Be the best Jaylen Brown Jaylen is able to be.
That is what he needs to do.

.I see your point Who. However I really mean does he have to accept the fact that he's the second banana in Boston.

For those that want him to "accept" that, again I have to ask, why? He's a legit talent and improving, why should he accept to settle? Are Tatum and Brown butting heads in particular about their role in the team?

I just don't understand the reasoning or the fascination of this from those that want Brown to for some reason or another be a lesser player of what he could be... unless they're having problems with each other.

[Who]

No. That is not Jaylen's skill-set. He would do a crappy job as a Pippen-like player. He needs to be Jaylen Brown. The best Jaylen Brown he is capable of being.

Not imitating a player he has little similarity to. A player he'll never be anything that a horribly poor imitation of because he does not have the skills to imitate that player.

Be the best Jaylen Brown Jaylen is able to be.
That is what he needs to do.

.I see your point Who. However I really mean does he have to accept the fact that he's the second banana in Boston.

For those that want him to "accept" that, again I have to ask, why? He's a legit talent and improving, why should he accept to settle? Are Tatum and Brown butting heads in particular about their role in the team?

I just don't understand the reasoning or the fascination of this from those that want Brown to for some reason or another be a lesser player of what he could be... unless they're having problems with each other.

Yeah, I don't see the conflict either.

Nor do I see Tatum as being ready to shoulder a team by himself. We've seen it in flashes - extended flashes even but not a whole season of it. He has to step up and take that role. It is not something that is just given to him. He has to take it.

And Jaylen is not stopping him from taking it.

Tatum has more than enough opportunities to do his thing without Jaylen needing to step aside.

[KG Living Legend]

No. That is not Jaylen's skill-set. He would do a crappy job as a Pippen-like player. He needs to be Jaylen Brown. The best Jaylen Brown he is capable of being.

Not imitating a player he has little similarity to. A player he'll never be anything that a horribly poor imitation of because he does not have the skills to imitate that player.

Be the best Jaylen Brown Jaylen is able to be.
That is what he needs to do.

.I see your point Who. However I really mean does he have to accept the fact that he's the second banana in Boston.

For those that want him to "accept" that, again I have to ask, why? He's a legit talent and improving, why should he accept to settle? Are Tatum and Brown butting heads in particular about their role in the team?

I just don't understand the reasoning or the fascination of this from those that want Brown to for some reason or another be a lesser player of what he could be... unless they're having problems with each other.

 Because teams need defined roles. You can still score 25 ppg in the second banana role. But you must understand when push comes to shove. Larry is shooting it not Kevin.

 Westbrook couldn't understand Durant was the go to guy and it was a problem.  Durant left.

[Somebody]

No. That is not Jaylen's skill-set. He would do a crappy job as a Pippen-like player. He needs to be Jaylen Brown. The best Jaylen Brown he is capable of being.

Not imitating a player he has little similarity to. A player he'll never be anything that a horribly poor imitation of because he does not have the skills to imitate that player.

Be the best Jaylen Brown Jaylen is able to be.
That is what he needs to do.

.I see your point Who. However I really mean does he have to accept the fact that he's the second banana in Boston.

For those that want him to "accept" that, again I have to ask, why? He's a legit talent and improving, why should he accept to settle? Are Tatum and Brown butting heads in particular about their role in the team?

I just don't understand the reasoning or the fascination of this from those that want Brown to for some reason or another be a lesser player of what he could be... unless they're having problems with each other.

Because teams need defined roles. You can still score 25 ppg in the second banana role. But you must understand when push comes to shove. Larry is shooting it not Kevin.

Westbrook couldn't understand Durant was the go to guy and it was a problem.  Durant left.

Huge difference between a guy who has never been an above league average efficiency scorer in Westbrook and one of the best post scorers ever who posted sky-high rTS% numbers in McHale regardless of the defences he played against in the playoffs though. The modern NBA would tell Bird to handle the ball in crunch time because he can create and score, not because he can fill it up better than McHale.

[Tr1boy]

No

This is not one persons team.  That mindset needs to change

Win as a team