Woj Bomb: Kemba, 1st Rounder, & '25 2nd Rounder to OKC for Horford, Brown, 2nd

[tazzmaniac]

Can an Athletic Subscriber summarize this Jared Weiss story about the disfunction of the Celtics.  Apparently Blake Griffin asked one of the Celtic players what it was like playing there and the player said to stay away.  Pretty dramatic stuff.

https://theathletic.com/2660873/2021/06/19/an-inside-look-at-the-factors-that-led-to-the-inevitable-break-up-between-kemba-walker-and-the-celtics/

From the article:

According to multiple team sources, there was some dysfunction in the locker room, with the relationship between Stevens and Walker characterized as tension-filled. Sources also suggest that Stevens was also perceived to be harder on Walker than on other top players.

This came in the wake of Gordon Hayward’s departure, after which sources said Hayward told Stevens he needed to establish a stronger voice with players if they were going to win.

At season’s end, multiple sources close to the players said several members of the locker room were welcoming a coaching change, noting Stevens did not appear to hold key players accountable, with complaints he was favoring Smart over others. The common refrain was that the team should hire a person of color with NBA playing experience to coach, something Stevens seems to be addressing with Chauncey Billups, Ime Udoka and Darvin Ham getting second interviews, as first reported by ESPN.

[Celtics2021]

Can an Athletic Subscriber summarize this Jared Weiss story about the disfunction of the Celtics.  Apparently Blake Griffin asked one of the Celtic players what it was like playing there and the player said to stay away.  Pretty dramatic stuff.

https://theathletic.com/2660873/2021/06/19/an-inside-look-at-the-factors-that-led-to-the-inevitable-break-up-between-kemba-walker-and-the-celtics/

There weren’t many specific events.  Unnamed sources said some perceived Brad was harder on Kemba than other players.  Hayward told Brad when he left he needed to be a louder voice.  Smart and Brown may have argued, but the only thing that was cited was the thing in the bubble, so either that “bubbled over” or was just old news.

Sounds like Brad likes Smart at least as much as Danny, so he’s likely to stick around.

[footey]

Can an Athletic Subscriber summarize this Jared Weiss story about the disfunction of the Celtics.  Apparently Blake Griffin asked one of the Celtic players what it was like playing there and the player said to stay away.  Pretty dramatic stuff.

https://theathletic.com/2660873/2021/06/19/an-inside-look-at-the-factors-that-led-to-the-inevitable-break-up-between-kemba-walker-and-the-celtics/

There weren’t many specific events.  Unnamed sources said some perceived Brad was harder on Kemba than other players.  Hayward told Brad when he left he needed to be a louder voice.  Smart and Brown may have argued, but the only thing that was cited was the thing in the bubble, so either that “bubbled over” or was just old news.

Sounds like Brad likes Smart at least as much as Danny, so he’s likely to stick around.

TP to you and Tazz.  What did  it say about the indifference to the logo stomping by Kyrie?  And about Blake asking whether he should sign with them?

[tazzmaniac]

Can an Athletic Subscriber summarize this Jared Weiss story about the disfunction of the Celtics.  Apparently Blake Griffin asked one of the Celtic players what it was like playing there and the player said to stay away.  Pretty dramatic stuff.

https://theathletic.com/2660873/2021/06/19/an-inside-look-at-the-factors-that-led-to-the-inevitable-break-up-between-kemba-walker-and-the-celtics/

There weren’t many specific events.  Unnamed sources said some perceived Brad was harder on Kemba than other players.  Hayward told Brad when he left he needed to be a louder voice.  Smart and Brown may have argued, but the only thing that was cited was the thing in the bubble, so either that “bubbled over” or was just old news.

Sounds like Brad likes Smart at least as much as Danny, so he’s likely to stick around.

TP to you and Tazz.  What did  it say about the indifference to the logo stomping by Kyrie?  And about Blake asking whether he should sign with them?

Nothing more than that.  Just referenced "team sources" on the lack of player response of the logo stomping as a sign the culture of competition is eroding. 

[jpotter33]

Can an Athletic Subscriber summarize this Jared Weiss story about the disfunction of the Celtics.  Apparently Blake Griffin asked one of the Celtic players what it was like playing there and the player said to stay away.  Pretty dramatic stuff.

https://theathletic.com/2660873/2021/06/19/an-inside-look-at-the-factors-that-led-to-the-inevitable-break-up-between-kemba-walker-and-the-celtics/

From the article:

According to multiple team sources, there was some dysfunction in the locker room, with the relationship between Stevens and Walker characterized as tension-filled. Sources also suggest that Stevens was also perceived to be harder on Walker than on other top players.

This came in the wake of Gordon Hayward’s departure, after which sources said Hayward told Stevens he needed to establish a stronger voice with players if they were going to win.

At season’s end, multiple sources close to the players said several members of the locker room were welcoming a coaching change, noting Stevens did not appear to hold key players accountable, with complaints he was favoring Smart over others. The common refrain was that the team should hire a person of color with NBA playing experience to coach, something Stevens seems to be addressing with Chauncey Billups, Ime Udoka and Darvin Ham getting second interviews, as first reported by ESPN.

Several interesting things there.

First, the Brad/Kemba thing surprises me. Seemed like they got along great especially with both of their personalities, but the trade makes more sense now.

Second, kind of crazy that Gordon was even telling Brad he had to be a stronger voice. For all the crap we anti-Coach Brad posters got over the years on this blog saying that Brad needed to be stronger with his players and hold them more accountable, which is the main source of much of the team’s dysfunction abd poor performance, it’s becoming clearer abd clearer that our assertions were correct and Brad was a major component of this team’s failings.

[SparzWizard]

Brad Stevens has and always will be a problem for the Celtics. He can't coach his dear life to save this team. Skeptical about him GM'ing.

[Tr1boy]

Can an Athletic Subscriber summarize this Jared Weiss story about the disfunction of the Celtics.  Apparently Blake Griffin asked one of the Celtic players what it was like playing there and the player said to stay away.  Pretty dramatic stuff.

https://theathletic.com/2660873/2021/06/19/an-inside-look-at-the-factors-that-led-to-the-inevitable-break-up-between-kemba-walker-and-the-celtics/

From the article:

According to multiple team sources, there was some dysfunction in the locker room, with the relationship between Stevens and Walker characterized as tension-filled. Sources also suggest that Stevens was also perceived to be harder on Walker than on other top players.

This came in the wake of Gordon Hayward’s departure, after which sources said Hayward told Stevens he needed to establish a stronger voice with players if they were going to win.

At season’s end, multiple sources close to the players said several members of the locker room were welcoming a coaching change, noting Stevens did not appear to hold key players accountable, with complaints he was favoring Smart over others. The common refrain was that the team should hire a person of color with NBA playing experience to coach, something Stevens seems to be addressing with Chauncey Billups, Ime Udoka and Darvin Ham getting second interviews, as first reported by ESPN.

Popovich wouldnt play favoritism... and its too bad Brad did (according to article)

Hire a coach that wont do it

[Tr1boy]

Can an Athletic Subscriber summarize this Jared Weiss story about the disfunction of the Celtics.  Apparently Blake Griffin asked one of the Celtic players what it was like playing there and the player said to stay away.  Pretty dramatic stuff.

https://theathletic.com/2660873/2021/06/19/an-inside-look-at-the-factors-that-led-to-the-inevitable-break-up-between-kemba-walker-and-the-celtics/

There weren’t many specific events.  Unnamed sources said some perceived Brad was harder on Kemba than other players.  Hayward told Brad when he left he needed to be a louder voice.  Smart and Brown may have argued, but the only thing that was cited was the thing in the bubble, so either that “bubbled over” or was just old news.

Sounds like Brad likes Smart at least as much as Danny, so he’s likely to stick around.

Depends on what $$ he is looking for, for his next contract

And if he will abide by the next coach system
.. which is hopefully to stay away from taking bad shots

[SparzWizard]

For this to really work out, Horford will only be with us for one season and that's one of the things I don't like about this deal...other than giving up a 1st, obviously. Breaking it down for 22-23:

1. We waive and stretch Al and sign a max player (via s&t if we re-sign Fournier w/ Fournier outgoing). This means no Smart or TL.
2. We waive Al and eat the $14.5M all at once, then sign someone to the MLE saving us a few million $$.
3. We use Al's $26.5M contract in a trade for a clear upgrade w/ the receiving team cutting him and only owing him $14.5M, saving them money.
4. We keep Al and pay him $26.5M.

These are really the only options out there moving forward. And as much as I like Al, keeping him in that 2nd season doesn't seem like plan A.

Also, I absolutely wish the best for Kemba moving forward, but there really better be something very wrong with his knee - like it is much worse than the Cs ever let on - or else this lowers our ceiling considerably. When healthy, Kemba is clearly a better player than Al at this point.

Gotta attach a first-rounder to get out of that atrocious Kemba contract. Besides, very likely the chance of a 16th pick becomes another Romeo Langford or Aaron Nesmith-- you wait maybe 2-3 years for them to see what they're really made of. And if you're the C's, you need to start winning now while you still have prime Tatum and Brown. You don't know when they might start demanding a trade to go elsewhere if they keep losing.

[radiohead]

The Brad/Kemba rift is surprising. I mean even when Kemba was shooting bricks, Brad stuck with him and kept him as a starter. The Hayward bit was quite telling. It seems like Brad did lose his locker room, as many here suspected.

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

For this to really work out, Horford will only be with us for one season and that's one of the things I don't like about this deal...other than giving up a 1st, obviously. Breaking it down for 22-23:

1. We waive and stretch Al and sign a max player (via s&t if we re-sign Fournier w/ Fournier outgoing). This means no Smart or TL.
2. We waive Al and eat the $14.5M all at once, then sign someone to the MLE saving us a few million $$.
3. We use Al's $26.5M contract in a trade for a clear upgrade w/ the receiving team cutting him and only owing him $14.5M, saving them money.
4. We keep Al and pay him $26.5M.

These are really the only options out there moving forward. And as much as I like Al, keeping him in that 2nd season doesn't seem like plan A.

Also, I absolutely wish the best for Kemba moving forward, but there really better be something very wrong with his knee - like it is much worse than the Cs ever let on - or else this lowers our ceiling considerably. When healthy, Kemba is clearly a better player than Al at this point.

To me, this is the biggest factor/motive in the trade (besides salary), and I don't think people are talking about it enough. Kemba cannot stay healthy. Period. Even when "healthy" in the latter part of the season, he didn't play back-to-backs. Supposedly to save him for the playoffs. Then he got hurt in the playoffs anyway.

The Celtics brass obviously knows a lot more about Kemba's health than we do, so to me, this trade is a clear signal from the team that they know that Kemba's health is basically not going to improve significantly, so why keep a max guy who's only going to be a part-time player. Horford gets dinged up at times, but in recent years his health has been better than Kemba's, and his contract, though bad, isn't as bad as Kemba's. In fact, this clears space to sign Fournier or someone comparable.

[cltc5]

Wouldn't it be interesting if we discovered that the "J's" are a "poor fit" with each other.

Say what you want about Kyrie, but he wanted to escape from the Celtics asap. (I agree, he's an ****.) Hayward, who granted had the worst luck possible in Boston, also failed to see the future potential of our dynamic duo, and chose greener pastures.   

I'm mean, both Brown and Tatum are very talented individually, yet don't really play well between each other. (as attested by many an analyst) Their games are actually quite similar. Both aren't willing or nifty passers. Brown can go several games in a row without a single assist. Both aren't great ball handlers either. Both specialize in north-south ISO ball.

No...this can't be.

 

Some of us have been saying this for years but ya know...the jays .  I’d trade brown for beal today.  But I’m still optimistic that a new coach will help figure out how to get these two on the same page.

[Tr1boy]

Tristan Thompson pressers near the end of the regular season

Winning games in the regular season, to me, they matter. But I really think it’s a bunch of horses***.

My final good year in Cleveland, we finished fourth. And we kind of did it on purpose, because we kind of wanted to stay fresh. So, I mean, being a top-four seed, being the three seed, being the one – let’s be real. Probably three out of the four years we made the Finals, we were never the No. 1 seed.

My whole thing is just being healthy when it matters. Of course, for us, we’ve haven’t had a healthy squad. Adding Fournier – him out with his safety protocols. So, we haven’t had full health. So, I think regular season matters in terms of just building chemistry.

But that s***’s out the window we get to playoffs. It’s all about matchups. It’s all about matchups. You saw the New Orleans Pelicans were a six seed and boned the s*** out of a Portland Trail Blazers team that was a third seed. You see it all the time. So it’s all about matchups in the playoffs. It doesn’t matter what your seeding is. As long as you’re healthy and you match up with a team, you can win. Anything’s possible.

Not Brad Stevens friendly imo

I really do think he will be next to be traded

[Tr1boy]

Several team sources felt Stevens was more aggressive with certain players this season, which included Walker who was criticized for his defensive mistakes. Those sources said Walker and Stevens began to butt heads, though the pair were considered to have a productive working relationship and mutual respect for one another. – via Jared Weiss @ The Athletic

[vjcsmoke]

I'm ok with this trade.  The #16 pick is hit or miss territory.  More than 50% of the time you get a complete bust/end of roster type of guy.

We had to give something to get out from Kemba's deal.

Al Horford is a nice fit on this roster, he's familiar with Tatum and Brown, he's a solid defensive presence, and he can play the pick and pop game to space the floor and allow Tatum and Brown to go to work.

To me, this move makes one of Tristan Thompson or Rob Williams expendable.

Most likely we trade Thompson unless we can extract GREAT value from a team who loves Rob Williams.

BTW Moses Brown looks really promising, athletic and long, 7'2, can rebound and block shots.  My question - could he play the 4?  I'd love to see if we could run a 'Twin Towers' configuration of Moses Brown + Rob Williams at the 4-5.

Moses Brown needs to work on his outside shot though, historically has shot ZERO 3 pointers at the NBA level but he's young at 21, he could still learn.