Woj Bomb: Kemba, 1st Rounder, & '25 2nd Rounder to OKC for Horford, Brown, 2nd

[Rondo9]

So after this trade, does the trade make you(Collective You, not any one particular You) rethink your opinion on Stevens, such that you thought that he hated big men and only wanted small centers?

First trade sends out a very small PG and brings back an average sized starting caliber center and a very tall(7'2") and long, athletic center.

I gotta think just that comment alone is making a lot of the game thread posters very, very happy.

No.

CBS brought in an undersized center who plays on the perimeter and shoots 3s. That is exactly the type of center he has most valued in the past. History repeating itself.

Moses Brown - let's see. I want to see a press conference or interview where they talk about how much they value this guy. If they come out and say they have high hopes and plans for him, that will change my mind somewhat as to how big a future he figures to have here. At this moment in time, my mind sees Moses as more of a career backup who may pan into something more if we are very very lucky.

If they wanted a guy who shoots threes, then the Celtics should've traded for Porzingis. Horford does more than shoot threes, he can operate from the high post and pass to cutters or shooters coming off curls. Those are the skills that Brad values in a big man. Those same skills that he hopes to cultivate with Williams (assuming he gets extended.).

[gouki88]

Initial reaction: bad trade. Moses Brown is just tall, that’s it really. Not excited about his potential at all. TT has to be on the outer now - hopefully for a TJ McConnell type.

Giving up a first is bad management and pretty strong evidence that our GM is a rookie. Overpaying for a guy he loved coaching doesn’t sit well with me, and our PG hole is gaping wide. Needs addressing, because Smart has been pretty bad as the lone PG.

Horford’s defence has been really poor since he left us. If he can return to somewhat near what he was when at Boston then that is much more palatable. Big if. Depends on our coach

[Who]

So after this trade, does the trade make you(Collective You, not any one particular You) rethink your opinion on Stevens, such that you thought that he hated big men and only wanted small centers?

First trade sends out a very small PG and brings back an average sized starting caliber center and a very tall(7'2") and long, athletic center.

I gotta think just that comment alone is making a lot of the game thread posters very, very happy.

No.

CBS brought in an undersized center who plays on the perimeter and shoots 3s. That is exactly the type of center he has most valued in the past. History repeating itself.

Moses Brown - let's see. I want to see a press conference or interview where they talk about how much they value this guy. If they come out and say they have high hopes and plans for him, that will change my mind somewhat as to how big a future he figures to have here. At this moment in time, my mind sees Moses as more of a career backup who may pan into something more if we are very very lucky.

If they wanted a guy who shoots threes, then the Celtics should've traded for Porzingis. Horford does more than shoot threes, he can operate from the high post and pass to cutters or shooters coming off curls. Those are the skills that Brad values in a big man. Those same skills that he hopes to cultivate with Williams (assuming he gets extended.).

Absolutely. 100% agree. High post facilitator. Shooting and passing. Make the offense hum. Get everyone involved. Share the ball. Engineered teamwork.

And on a side note (since he was mentioned) it's the part of Porzingis' game I'd most love to see him work on. Not to become a passer of Horford's caliber but just an average passer. Anybody can become an average passer if they work on it. You can't give a guy vision but you can learn the basics enough to be reliable. It drives me nuts how much of a black hole Porzingis is.

It is also part of my concern with Moses Brown. It is one thing for a big man to not be a shooter, it is another thing for him to not be a shooter & not be a passer. Now you are very limited in how you can impact an offense and you will belong in a particular group of unskilled big men that are typically easy to get / replace + in order to separate yourself from the rest you need to become a high end defensive player to have any substantial value.

[hwangjini_1]

Initial reaction: bad trade. Moses Brown is just tall, that’s it really. Not excited about his potential at all. TT has to be on the outer now - hopefully for a TJ McConnell type.

Giving up a first is bad management and pretty strong evidence that our GM is a rookie. Overpaying for a guy he loved coaching doesn’t sit well with me, and our PG hole is gaping wide. Needs addressing, because Smart has been pretty bad as the lone PG.

Horford’s defence has been really poor since he left us. If he can return to somewhat near what he was when at Boston then that is much more palatable. Big if. Depends on our coach

that is not what the stats are telling us, both in college and in the nba. brown is absolutely a player who cannot score more than 6 feet from the basket, and is thereby limited in today's nba.

but, please look at his performances for the entire second half of last season. in the right team setting on offense and defense he potentially is a very good third string center. maybe even 2nd string some day.

given that Al is old and TL is often hurt, a solid 3rd string center has real value for this team.

[uconnceltic]

I approve the trade. But Moses Brown is a project.  He is not ready to contribute meaningful bench minutes.  He will spend a lot of time in G League.

He would not be a good pick at 16 in this draft. At best he would go late in 2nd round, or undrafted. Just keeping it real.

This goes by all the tape you watch of him playing I take it or it is just more BS

He has talent and getting a double double a few times is a good sign

[jpotter33]

Glad to see Stevens did not over value the #16 pick. He’s had enough of the Celtics accumulating mediocre young prospects on the bench who leave the coach with nobody who can complement his young stars enough to compete

Yeah, I think this is another major positive factor from this trade. Thought Danny got just as stingy - if not stingier - with his picks as he did with his players, which led to us not getting several good players in trades. Good things to see from new GM Brad.

[Roy H.]

Stating the obvious:

‘The Celtics had real concerns with Kemba Walker’s left knee’ – Adrian Wojnarowski | NBA Countdown

[Somebody]

Initial reaction: bad trade. Moses Brown is just tall, that’s it really. Not excited about his potential at all. TT has to be on the outer now - hopefully for a TJ McConnell type.

Giving up a first is bad management and pretty strong evidence that our GM is a rookie. Overpaying for a guy he loved coaching doesn’t sit well with me, and our PG hole is gaping wide. Needs addressing, because Smart has been pretty bad as the lone PG.

Horford’s defence has been really poor since he left us. If he can return to somewhat near what he was when at Boston then that is much more palatable. Big if. Depends on our coach

that is not what the stats are telling us, both in college and in the nba. brown is absolutely a player who cannot score more than 6 feet from the basket, and is thereby limited in today's nba.

but, please look at his performances for the entire second half of last season. in the right team setting on offense and defense he potentially is a very good third string center. maybe even 2nd string some day.

given that Al is old and TL is often hurt, a solid 3rd string center has real value for this team.

The stats are telling us (minuscule sample size alert, he's only played 900ish minutes this season) that he's roughly a net neutral on defence and a sizable negative on offence. That's a third string centre/poor backup on a tanking team, he's really very much a project that will need a year or two to even develop into a fringe rotation player for us.

[Somebody]

Initial reaction: bad trade. Moses Brown is just tall, that’s it really. Not excited about his potential at all. TT has to be on the outer now - hopefully for a TJ McConnell type.

Giving up a first is bad management and pretty strong evidence that our GM is a rookie. Overpaying for a guy he loved coaching doesn’t sit well with me, and our PG hole is gaping wide. Needs addressing, because Smart has been pretty bad as the lone PG.

Horford’s defence has been really poor since he left us. If he can return to somewhat near what he was when at Boston then that is much more palatable. Big if. Depends on our coach

I'm actually fine with having Smart start at PG for us next season - I'd much prefer if we traded TT for Anderson or Nance (preferably Nance, I see our path to title contention without Kemba as an above average offensive team with a historically good defence, so we need to stack the deck with versatile defenders who can make high value plays for their position).

[BoulderMike]

would love TT to just opt out.

[Goldstar88]

Initial reaction: bad trade. Moses Brown is just tall, that’s it really. Not excited about his potential at all. TT has to be on the outer now - hopefully for a TJ McConnell type.

Giving up a first is bad management and pretty strong evidence that our GM is a rookie. Overpaying for a guy he loved coaching doesn’t sit well with me, and our PG hole is gaping wide. Needs addressing, because Smart has been pretty bad as the lone PG.

Horford’s defence has been really poor since he left us. If he can return to somewhat near what he was when at Boston then that is much more palatable. Big if. Depends on our coach

Who did you think the C’s could realistically get for Kemba? He had negative trade value. The only way to unload him was to attach a 1st round pick.
Horford’s defense may not be elite anymore, but it’s not poor. That’s just not true.

In regards to Moses Brown, he had multiple 20/20 games and finished off the season with a 24pt, 17reb, 7blk performance. Luke Kornet is the same height, why didn’t he put up those numbers?

Moses Per 36: 14.5pts, 15reb, 1.8blk, 1.2stl
vs
Timelord per 36: 15.2pts, 13.1reb, 3.3blk, 1.6stl

Moses Brown might be the best prospect on the Celtics. I don’t know how anyone can say that he doesn’t have upside being a 7’2”, 245lb, 21 year old.

[jpotter33]

Brogdon, Lamb

for

Smart, Langford, Thompson

Would hate to lose Smart and to a lesser extent Langford for his defensive versatility, but that would be an excellent haul that I think would put us into title contention, especially if there was any way we could also attempt to get someone like Larry Nance with the TPE.

Brogdon, Pritchard
Brown, Nesmith
Tatum, Lamb
Nance, Parker
Timelord, Horford

Add some veteran help off the bench and you can win it all. Even if you replace Nance with resigning Fournier that's still a title-contending team, imo.

[GreenlyGreeny]

Moses almost averaged a double-double at age 21. He’s got height which you either got or don’t. And he’s ultra cheap for three years. Moses was worth pick 16. Moses did more in one game than former number 17 pick James Young did in his NBA career. How about the French Dancing Bear, one of our former picks at 16? And people call Moses a project not worthy of 16? 🤣

I’m glad our GM is not absurdly overvaluing non-lottery picks. For every scary Terry, there’s three James Young’s. Only one French Dancing Bear, though.

[colincb]

Woj and Bontemps have a podcast talking a bit about the trade.

https://open.spotify.com/episode/4nUB3MKJLaH2No5wZRkpig

====

In other news:

We gave up the 16th pick to dump Kemba for Al. Not for Moses Brown.

Moses is worth a 2nd rounder as a developmental player on a cheap contract.

Finally, Horford has the higher floor based on availability, and Kemba the higher ceiling if he can return closer to form. We needed the higher floor as far as on-court production as well as the financial savings and flexibility now and in the future. Maybe the money angle trumped everything, but I think there was still a fair degree of uncertainty about Kemba's knee going forward. I would have had no issue keeping Kemba, but if there was a deal to be made, this trade always made the most sense assuming Horford wasn't toast.

[Csfan1984]

would love TT to just opt out.

Given the lack of good free agents he just might.