Sorry C’s fans there’s proof this team is ‘soft’

[Celtics4ever]

I know teams do not always have enforcers anymore but who would ours be?  Thompson?  Smart?   

We have a lot of finesse guys and one or two bangers.  Do we lack the physicality of the past?

[Neurotic Guy]

Sean Grande:

This Boston Celtics team has been down 10+ points in 34 out of 61 games this season.

These Celtics are what they are.

I’m sorry to be a party pooper but the C’s are going nowhere, at least this season till Ainge can retool the squad with a deeper bench and bring in some veteran leadership that can provide some mental toughness.

Not telling us what we don’t know. I’m as fickle as the next guy and get excited when the C’s are winning games. But you can’t get past the reality that they fall behind double digits frequently and they give up double digit leads.  And not confident  in this team crunch time.   It seems likely  that this team will not make too much noise in the playoffs, though they could win a series and possibly win a couple games im the second round.  I don’t see them winning a series v. Nets, Philly or Bucks.   I hope DA has a good plan for the off-season - still a ton of talent here and growth potential.

Not sure I by into that the softness can’t be rectified.  Maturity will do a lot for that. 

[gouki88]

I know teams do not always have enforcers anymore but who would ours be?  Thompson?  Smart?   

We have a lot of finesse guys and one or two bangers.  Do we lack the physicality of the past?

I think those are the only two who fit the bill really. I miss Baynes for that reason, and is why I want us to get Jonas Valanciunas

[Ogaju]

All the arguments on this blog. Are folks really trying to argue that this team is not soft? Kyrie goes into TG Garden and burns sage on their court and nothing happens. Then he drops about 40 pts on them in a game and they line up to hug and kiss him. That is not the sign of a tough team.

Detail for me all the teams who have players that don't go over to their opponents, shake their hands and hug them and congratulate them on a win. Because I am pretty sure the number is ZERO, so by extension of your logic, every team in the NBA is not tough.

Come on Nick....watch the tape..they were falling over themselves to hug the guy who pulled them as Celtic and then dropped about 40 on them. First of all a team with any pride holds him under 20, and does not line up to ‘kiss his ring’. It was so glaring that even the announcers asked him about all the love and affection.

I watched the tape. I see nothing wrong with players going over and showing some love to a former team mate. Strange as it may seem to you, but just because you hate Kyrie and hate how he left the Celtics, doesn't mean his friends who played alongside him feel the same way.

The players did the same thing with LeBron after the Lakers game. They all showed love to Al Horford after the OKC game, even though he stiffed the franchise too.

This isn't the 1960's to 1990's NBA where players hated each other. It's a very different time. Players greeting and talking to each other pre and post game doesn't mean the players aren't tough.

Kyrie knows they are soft. I wonder what would happen if Tatum burnt sage around the court at Barclays before a game. Oh wait, he wouldn’t dare.

[tstorey_97]

Each Celtics championship team had a leader or leaders all of whom led in their own way.

This team doesn't have that player...does not.

If there is no sheriff in town, everybody "does what they want".

Look at the list of hall of famers and their conduct. We do not have such a player(s) at this moment.

Thompson - veteran who plays hard and has been here for 18 weeks?
Smart - Is not the sheriff, he is a lot of things, but not the "man."
The J's - nope
Kemba - never has been this person
Stevens - he is the "acting" captain of the team, but a player needs to be in the role.

Look at what Auerbach put on the floor and how he did it. Why the heck wouldn't Russell be the coach? It was his team. Auerbach went and sat in the stands.

Whose team is this?

This year is like no other and this might be part of it...

The Knicks are beating everybody
The Hawks are beating everybody
The Hornets are decent

The Celtics have been beating these three teams for freaking ever. Not this year.
I'm sure we can talk about "other players on other teams" who act as a leader of sorts, but this team doesn't have one.

Garnett isn't walking through that door.

[footey]

How is that proof of softness?  If anything, it shows the team has come back from double digit deficits several times this season.

The Celtics are 9-25 in the 34 games falling behind by 10.

So 25% of the time the Celts are able to overcome large deficits?  Again, “soft” isn’t the word I would use.

The Celtics are 8-25 when down at half time this season.

How does that compare with other teams?

[mobilija]

I think the proof that we are soft is we quit playing defense at a high level.  We 've all seen guys slump their heads after a mistake or missed shot.   Tough guys get right back into the play and try to win the next one, for whatever reason that has not happened this season.

Also, I do not think any team fears us anymore.   Everyone has always had us circled to play us and gave us their best.   It used to be to compete against the Celtics now you can see guys think they can beat us.

This.

And unfortunately, our best player is the biggest culprit. Tatum's often times lazy effort, throwing his hands up in the air after every perceived slight and his constant hang dog posture is hard to watch. It must be doubly hard to be a teammate and play with. I'm afraid his on court demeanor is really affecting this team. One big similarity I keep thinking about between this year and the year of Evil Kyrie...the team wasn't having fun, basketball was a chore. I'm not sure if some of this doesn't originate from Tatum. And even on good years, we've had players complaining about lack of ball movement and lack of team play, we all know Tatum can be a ball stopper. Plus big name free agents constantly wanting out...

idk...I don't wanna feel this is true but... Tatum really lacks leadership, almost even has anti-leadership. If this team is to take another step, it's gotta be from Tatum developing in this area. You can't have your best player be a pouty sour puss.

I'm bumping this because I'm surprised and saddened by the lack of response to my post. Surprised because I blasted our franchise cornerstone player, that usually results in blow back Saddened because the lack of response makes me think ya'll agree and I don't want it to be true.

[Kernewek]

Don't discount the possibility that people disagree and aren't motivated to respond.

[mobilija]

Don't discount the possibility that people disagree and aren't motivated to respond.

Definitely not discounting it....that's my normal mode of operation! haha TP

[JBcat]

I don’t buy it.

I think some people downplay how hard we have been hit with injuries/covid this year.  The Celtics have 30% more days missed to covid than the next closest team, and more than the bottom 10 teams combined. Add to that when Tatum came back from covid he was not himself for about a month, Thompson and Walker started the season slower coming off injuries, Brown’s tendinitis, Smart’s injury and now R Williams.

It’s been a crazy season for the Celtics. I still believe in this team if fully healthy and able to develop some chemistry.

[jambr380]

I think the proof that we are soft is we quit playing defense at a high level.  We 've all seen guys slump their heads after a mistake or missed shot.   Tough guys get right back into the play and try to win the next one, for whatever reason that has not happened this season.

Also, I do not think any team fears us anymore.   Everyone has always had us circled to play us and gave us their best.   It used to be to compete against the Celtics now you can see guys think they can beat us.

This.

And unfortunately, our best player is the biggest culprit. Tatum's often times lazy effort, throwing his hands up in the air after every perceived slight and his constant hang dog posture is hard to watch. It must be doubly hard to be a teammate and play with. I'm afraid his on court demeanor is really affecting this team. One big similarity I keep thinking about between this year and the year of Evil Kyrie...the team wasn't having fun, basketball was a chore. I'm not sure if some of this doesn't originate from Tatum. And even on good years, we've had players complaining about lack of ball movement and lack of team play, we all know Tatum can be a ball stopper. Plus big name free agents constantly wanting out...

idk...I don't wanna feel this is true but... Tatum really lacks leadership, almost even has anti-leadership. If this team is to take another step, it's gotta be from Tatum developing in this area. You can't have your best player be a pouty sour puss.

I'm bumping this because I'm surprised and saddened by the lack of response to my post. Surprised because I blasted our franchise cornerstone player, that usually results in blow back Saddened because the lack of response makes me think ya'll agree and I don't want it to be true.

If you look around at 'true' Celtics fans that actually watch the games and follow the team on a daily basis, how many list Tatum as their absolute favorite player? Of course he is supremely talented and he draws well from a national perspective, but I don't think people take particular offense mostly because they agree.

It would be wonderful if he became an MVP-level player and led the Cs multiple Titles, but his tenure here has been mostly formulaic of a rising superstar. He doesn't seem to 'bleed green' like so many want and he lacks something from an emotional perspective that make us connect with him. Even his contract terms kind-of suck. We offered him an incredibly rare (1st ever?) all or nothing 30% All-NBA max extension and his 5th year is still a player option.

I don't mean to come down hard on Tatum. He is still incredibly young and this season has been a bit of a whirlwind with Covid and the shortened off-season. His future is super-bright and there are very few players I would trade him for.

[nickagneta]

I just don't see Tatum being the problem with this team. He has done more before his 23rd birthday than any player in Celtic history. He has put up some numbers and quality of play, especially in the playoffs, that puts him alongside some of the all-time greats ever at a similar age.

He has played through some real bad lingering effects of Covid. That is definitely part of the reason for his inconsistency away from being spectacular this season.

His potential is that of a possible future MVP.

He isn't the issue. Neither is Brown. Or Pritchard. For guys like Timelord and Kemba the issue hasn't been performance, it's been availability. But every other player on that squad needs to look into the mirror and say, what more can I do to make this team better

[Smartacus]

Assuming this is true and we are soft and in need of a cultural infusion of toughness who could possibly be players that we could target that could come in and set the tone?

Mentally Tough Tier List

S Tier - Mentally Unshakeable
Damian Lillard
Kawhi Leonard
Kevin Durant (On the court not on Social Media)

A tier - Strong willed, always dangerous, exhibits leadership qualities
Chris Paul
Klay Thompson
Kyle Lowry
Jimmy Butler
Khris Middleton
Kyrie Irving
Steph Curry
Lebron James
Zion Williamson
Julius Randle (Unless this year is an aberration)

B Tier - Supremely talented but can get in their own head
James Harden
Giannis Antetokoumpo
Nikola Jokic
Luka Doncic
Jayson Tatum
Jaylen Brown
Bradley Beal
Russell Westbrook
Donovan Mitchell
Jamal Murray
Devon Booker
Ja Morant
Joel Embiid
Zach Lavine
Nikola Vucevic
DeAaron Fox
Anthony Davis
RJ Barrett
Bam Adebayo
CJ McCollum
Domantas Sabonis

C Tier - Likely to lose mental composure or not talented enough to affect culture on a deep level
Kemba Walker
Paul George (Although he is improving)
Rudy Gobert
Karl Anthony Towns
Ben Simmons
Jrue Holiday
Trae Young
Pascal Siakam
Demar Derozan
Marcus Smart
Deangelo Russell
Gordon Hayward
Anthony Edwards
Lamelo Ball
Brandon Ingram
Draymond Green
Terry Rozier
Malcolm Brogdon
Mike Conley
OG Anunoby
Deandre Ayton(Could see him rising)
Jonas Valenciunas (Tough but might not move the needle)

Thoughts on the List
-Most players are not attainable. Any culture improvement would best come from internal development or a coaching change.
- The ideal course of action for improving the toughness culture would probably be to throw everything at either Lillard or Leonard.
- Kyle Lowry might be great as a Smart/Kemba replacement. 
- I put Middleton in A tier despite him lacking the talent of the others. Always dangerous in a playoff game.
- Draymond is in Trash Tier but he was only 2 or 3 years removed from A or even S Tier. Could be a sneaky great culture fixer option if nothing else is available.

[footey]

I just don't see Tatum being the problem with this team. He has done more before his 23rd birthday than any player in Celtic history. He has put up some numbers and quality of play, especially in the playoffs, that puts him alongside some of the all-time greats ever at a similar age.

He has played through some real bad lingering effects of Covid. That is definitely part of the reason for his inconsistency away from being spectacular this season.

His potential is that of a possible future MVP.

He isn't the issue. Neither is Brown. Or Pritchard. For guys like Timelord and Kemba the issue hasn't been performance, it's been availability. But every other player on that squad needs to look into the mirror and say, what more can I do to make this team better

You over-rate Tatum.  He is a fine player.  "Potential possible future MVP"--that is a wishy washy proclamation, and undercuts your support of him.

[nickagneta]

I just don't see Tatum being the problem with this team. He has done more before his 23rd birthday than any player in Celtic history. He has put up some numbers and quality of play, especially in the playoffs, that puts him alongside some of the all-time greats ever at a similar age.

He has played through some real bad lingering effects of Covid. That is definitely part of the reason for his inconsistency away from being spectacular this season.

His potential is that of a possible future MVP.

He isn't the issue. Neither is Brown. Or Pritchard. For guys like Timelord and Kemba the issue hasn't been performance, it's been availability. But every other player on that squad needs to look into the mirror and say, what more can I do to make this team better

You over-rate Tatum.  He is a fine player.  "Potential possible future MVP"--that is a wishy washy proclamation, and undercuts your support of him.

That's not over rating him. It's a possible ceiling. He may not reach that ceiling but it is possible he reaches it.

He's 23. Former MVPs, Harden, Westbrook and Curry weren't as good at the same age as Tatum. Giannis only marginally better at the same age.

I stand by my statement. He has a potential possible MVP ceiling.