The reason Brad Stevens might not be the coach you think he is.

[Indocelts]

 I used to think that in order to win the championship you need to have a great coach.

But think about the past 10 years champions, you can see that the determining factors are the players, not the coach.
When the players left the team then the team suffers. Examples: Heat, Raptors, Mavs, Spurs, Lakers ( yet to be seen)
So we can talk about whether Brad is the correct coach for the team, but the most important question is :
- Are Tatum, Brown, Kemba the correct players to get us banner 18?
- Do they have the passion to win? Do they make others perform better? Are they efficient offensively and defensively?
- Are Smart, Fournier, TT the correct supporting cast?
- Are other bench players good enough?

Nurse could win it for the Raptors, as did Spoelstra and Vogel for the Heat and Lakers.

I believe Brad can win it  too, with the right players.

[PhoSita]

Phil Jackson played for the Knicks!

OK, but he clearly falls in the second category I mentioned.


The idea that you need to have accomplished significant things at the NBA level as a player to get respect from your players just isn't true.

[tstorey_97]

Nick, I've got a literary agent lined up for you.

Last season the Celtics went 48-24. This has been my issue with this year's team...what happened? Hayward didn't play that many games and the J's, Robert and additions have improved.

If you skip Steven's first year where he was instructed to lose so the Celtics could get a higher draft pick, Stevens is around .609 win %

Dallas' Cuban, being a good businessman decided to just keep the same coach rather than chucking the guy every 4 or 5 years.

When a player "arrives" in Dallas...he flies with Carlisle's plan or he can play somewhere else.

Maybe Kyrie talked to Ainge about getting rid of Stevens? Probably not, but listen to this, when you come play in Boston? You're going with Steven's program as Ainge and the billionaires who own the team are going with Steven's program. 

It doesn't matter if I agree with the "style", but, I will say that it offers stability/consistency/predictability which is very much needed by players.

What has Stevens contributed to this season's struggles?

2021 season (32-30)  from Yahoo

FGA 88.4 (12th)
FGM 41.2 (15th)
FG% 46.6% (14th)

3PA 35.8 (12th)
3PM 13.2 (11th)
3P% 37% (13th)

PPG 112 (16th)
FTA 21 (22nd)

2019/20 season (48-24)..from espn site...not sure of rankings,

FGA 89.6 (10th)
FGM 41.3 (10th)
FG% 46.1% (16th)

3PA 34.5 (13th)
3PM 12.6 (10th)
3P% 36.4% (10th)


PPG 113.7 (8th)
FTA 23.2 (15th)


They've lost one point per game and two FTA's which isn't good.
Walker has missed 23 games, Smart 20, Robert 15, Thompson 15, Pritchard and the J's have missed 5 or 6 games each, Theis 12 or so, Fournier missed "19 days" which is what?..6 games. These missed starters stats might be a little above the NBA average.

The roster changed a little with Theis leaving and Fournier needs some reps.

I think the starting unit has only played together for a dozen games...

Walker
Smart
Brown
Tatum +
Thompson-Theis-Robert

There are so many variables along with the Hawks and Knicks being unbeatable which hasn't happened in freaking decades.

I will say that the Celtics don't "sneak up" on anybody anymore. Teams at all levels give the Celtics tough games.

If you want to blame the above on Stevens go ahead, just keep in mind, Ainge and Wyc aren't going to fire him as has been stated here, he'd have a new job by dinner time the day he was fired.

Anyways, if this roster has "tuned out" Stevens, all I can do is laugh. These men are as competitive as any other athlete anywhere. They each play hard for their team mates and that is the most important thing and it has nothing to do with the coach.

[konkmv]

The structure of the team is bad.. and it is ainge fault... kemba will be here for 2 more years with his contract and he is not a pass first point guard.. and plays 60% of the games.. with kemba and smart you have not outside shooting.. The bench is the worst in the NBA.. the team has no power forward no back up forward who can produce.. no shooters.. and no true pg.. kemba is a scorer.. smart is who he is.. edwards is a no factor and Pritchard could be an option in 1 2 years... g.Williams ojeleje kornet edwards are trash.. nesmith and romeo are playing like trash but I do not know if they are trash..  I do not see any system for them to produce.. if the others are in mood they could pass them the ball..
I know nba is a star league.. but brad should by now know who plays and who does not.. playing 15 players has no results.. and I see fear in the way romeo and Aaron are playing.. fear if they make a mistake they are out.. anyway I do not like the coaching this year

[PhoSita]

Nick, I've got a literary agent lined up for you.

Last season the Celtics went 48-24. This has been my issue with this year's team...what happened?

- Best player got COVID, wasn't the same for weeks, and uses an inhaler now

- Kemba missed the first month or so of the season with knee issues, was pretty bad for a while on return, and has to sit out back to backs in a season full of them.

- They traded for a guy who was supposed to help at the deadline and then he almost immediately got COVID (Fournier)

- They lost Smart for a month to a calf injury

- They've lost more player games than almost any other team to COVID / health and safety

- Their most used lineup has only played 131 minutes together in 11 games and one of the players in that lineup isn't even on the team anymore

- A guy who has barely played basketball in the last year that they signed off the street a few weeks ago is a significant part of the rotation right now

- Their 5th best player (Rob Williams) can't stay healthy and has difficulty staying on the floor for more than 20 mpg due to fouls and stamina

- The lead scorer for the bench right now is a rookie point guard who played 4 years at Oregon


Need I go on?

[Celtics4ever]

- Best player got COVID, wasn't the same for weeks, and uses an inhaler now

- Kemba missed the first month or so of the season with knee issues, was pretty bad for a while on return, and has to sit out back to backs in a season full of them.

- They traded for a guy who was supposed to help at the deadline and then he almost immediately got COVID (Fournier)

- They lost Smart for a month to a calf injury

- They've lost more player games than almost any other team to COVID / health and safety

- Their most used lineup has only played 131 minutes together in 11 games and one of the players in that lineup isn't even on the team anymore

- A guy who has barely played basketball in the last year that they signed off the street a few weeks ago is a significant part of the rotation right now

- Their 5th best player (Rob Williams) can't stay healthy and has difficulty staying on the floor for more than 20 mpg due to fouls and stamina

- The lead scorer for the bench right now is a rookie point guard who played 4 years at Oregon


Need I go on?

So saying that PhoSita do you want them to run it back with the same team or make changes?

[PhoSita]

[PhoSita]

So saying that PhoSita do you want them to run it back with the same team or make changes?

Running it back isn't going to be an option.  They'll be right up against the luxury tax without re-signing any free agents. 

I honestly don't know the best answer for this off-season. The team is in a bind where the talent that's on the roster isn't good enough, at least not when the inexperience of the bench is taken into the consideration.  At the same time, they need to shed salary and the only way to do it is to trade away the guys who are the most experienced.

Ainge has to sort out that catch-22.

Hopefully Kemba shows enough between now and whenever the Celts are eliminated that some team is willing to take on his salary without demanding a lot of additional assets.

The Celts need to create flexibility under the luxury tax to retool the supporting cast.  They probably need to try to re-sign Fournier and hope he looks a lot better after getting healthy and having a full training camp / pre-season with the team.


Even so, moving Kemba would mean the ceiling of the team is lowered even if it allows them to make changes that could raise the floor.  How high is the ceiling as-is?  Seems like they're stuck right now as a 2nd round team at best, or a 3rd round team if teams like the Nets or Sixers run into injury or chemistry problems.

[Celtics4ever]

Thanks, I agree it is not an option.   This has been a hard year for everyone but especially hard for us.   A lot of our problems like depth were exposed.

[td450]

So saying that PhoSita do you want them to run it back with the same team or make changes?

Running it back isn't going to be an option.  They'll be right up against the luxury tax without re-signing any free agents. 

I honestly don't know the best answer for this off-season. The team is in a bind where the talent that's on the roster isn't good enough, at least not when the inexperience of the bench is taken into the consideration.  At the same time, they need to shed salary and the only way to do it is to trade away the guys who are the most experienced.

Ainge has to sort out that catch-22.

Hopefully Kemba shows enough between now and whenever the Celts are eliminated that some team is willing to take on his salary without demanding a lot of additional assets.

The Celts need to create flexibility under the luxury tax to retool the supporting cast.  They probably need to try to re-sign Fournier and hope he looks a lot better after getting healthy and having a full training camp / pre-season with the team.


Even so, moving Kemba would mean the ceiling of the team is lowered even if it allows them to make changes that could raise the floor.  How high is the ceiling as-is?  Seems like they're stuck right now as a 2nd round team at best, or a 3rd round team if teams like the Nets or Sixers run into injury or chemistry problems.

The "most experienced" guys are Kemba and Marcus. Neither guy gives you poise and judgement.

There only way out of this I see is:

1. Tatum and Brown continue to improve

2. Robert Williams can stay healthy

3. Langford and Nesmith develop into two way rotation contributors. It is encouraging that they both have been better on the defensive end so far, because they both have significant offensive talent. Its just a really bad year to find offensive rhythm when you can't get regular minutes and shots. No G league, and scrimmaging isn't happening either. They should be OK next year.

4. Get rid of Kemba.

5. Look for more passing anywhere you can find it.

That is all doable, and it could put us into the top group of teams.

[ManchesterCelticsFan]

Go back in time, hypothetically,  to 2007-2008, replace coach Doc Rivers with Brad Steven's of any year of his NBA coaching experience level from 2013 to present day. Do the Celtics still win the NBA Championship? 

[Ogaju]

Go back in time, hypothetically,  to 2007-2008, replace coach Doc Rivers with Brad Steven's of any year of his NBA coaching experience level from 2013 to present day. Do the Celtics still win the NBA Championship? 

With Thibs, probably yes.

[Big333223]

We just can't talk about this season without acknowledging this.

How good should a team's record be when they had that extended run in the bubble, no training camp, lost a big rotation piece in the offseason, and have never been healthy for a single game?

Since the trade deadline, I think the team has a clear top 7 (Tatum, Brown, Kemba, Timelord, Fournier, Smart, Thompson). In 18 games, they've never played with all 7. Only twice have they played with 5 of the 7, both blow-outs against Houston and Charlotte. Overall they're 11-7 in that stretch.

I ask again, what should a team's record be given these circumstances? The circumstance of both missing players but also never having a chance to develop chemistry.

[Ogaju]

We just can't talk about this season without acknowledging this.

How good should a team's record be when they had that extended run in the bubble, no training camp, lost a big rotation piece in the offseason, and have never been healthy for a single game?

Since the trade deadline, I think the team has a clear top 7 (Tatum, Brown, Kemba, Timelord, Fournier, Smart, Thompson). In 18 games, they've never played with all 7. Only twice have they played with 5 of the 7, both blow-outs against Houston and Charlotte. Overall they're 11-7 in that stretch.

I ask again, what should a team's record be given these circumstances? The circumstance of both missing players but also never having a chance to develop chemistry.

Top seven without Pritchard?

[PhoSita]

Top seven without Pritchard?

Yeah I would include PP in that group.

Kemba, Smart, Tatum, Brown, TT

Pritchard, Fournier, Timelord


On paper that's a serviceable top 8 if you have all of those guys reasonably healthy and able to play.

But as mentioned this has basically never been the case this season.