E. Fournier vs A. Gordon

[Alleyoopster]

I like Fournier, just wish he was with the team now instead of being on the Covid list.  Seems that Boston has been hit hard by that, wonder why.

It may be a generational thing. Athletes are young and tend to hang out with other young people who often go maskless even in crowded places like bars and restaurants. Since their risks of coming down with serious complications are low, they are often willing to take a chance on getting Covid-19.

If I were their age I probably wouldn't be all that concerned either. My gripe is with those who; refuse to wear a mask in public places, don't cover their noses or wear useless bandanas that scream, "I am an idiot!"

[td450]

The two deals really had nothing to do with one another. We never had to pick one. It doesn't matter if Gordon is "overrated" or better or worse for the team than Fournier. It only matters if making the deal for him would have made us a better team, and I'm pretty sure it would have.

Orlando made both players available. The cost of one player vs the other has nothing to do with the decision that was made? It was highly unlikely that The C’s were going to land both. Of course adding Fournier and Gordon without losing significant pieces would make the Team better. But that wasn’t going to happen.

We got Fournier for two 2nds, and he consumed part of the TPE. There is no way to know for sure, but it seems likely that Marcus Smart plus Nesmith plus a 1st pick may have gotten it done, because that's a bit better deal than what they got for him. Perhaps some additional salary filler would have been needed, but no TPE required. I think we would be a better team if that had happened. Getting Fournier didn't modify our capacity to get Gordon. We just didn't do it.

[Goldstar88]

Gordon plays and Fournier is a Twitter cheerleader. I'll go with Gordon.

So you’d take Gordon, since Fournier is in Covid Protocol like so many others have been this season.

There are only so many games left in the season. So "yes" I would take an actual player over a cheerleader. If he is even close to the amount of games missed that TT was then we won't see him again.

Well, Thompson missed 3 weeks, Fournier has already been out a week, so if he was to miss the same amount of time as Tristan he would come back at some point next week. Last game of the regular season is 05/16.

Would still rather have Fournier for the last few weeks of the regular season, plus the postseason and hopefully into next year with a new contract.

[Vermont Green]

We got Fournier for two 2nds, and he consumed part of the TPE. There is no way to know for sure, but it seems likely that Marcus Smart plus Nesmith plus a 1st pick may have gotten it done, because that's a bit better deal than what they got for him. Perhaps some additional salary filler would have been needed, but no TPE required. I think we would be a better team if that had happened. Getting Fournier didn't modify our capacity to get Gordon. We just didn't do it.

This is saying we would be a better team if we had traded Smart, Nesmith, plus maybe some additional salary for Gordon?

I don't see it the same.  We would be worse this season for losing Smart over Gordon and worse in the long run for losing a decent prospect (Nesmith) and a first round pick.

I do agree that the two deals are not necessarily mutually exclusive but the question was are we better for the deal we did for Fournier or would we be better right now if we didn't but did the Gordon deal.

And the thing on the TPE, we will have Bird rights to Fournier so probably we can sign him if we want to.  If not, we can sign and trade him and potentially get another TPE back for the trouble.  If neither of these two things happen, then we do have the opportunity cost to consider as part of this trade. 

I would not trade Smart though just to keep the TPE, and certainly not Smart + Nesmith + 1st Rnd Pick + another player, just to keep the TPE.  This is what makes "grading" this trade hard.  It is impossible to know what the opportunity cost of the TPE is.  It may end up nothing, it may be we miss out on a really useful player.

[Goldstar88]

The two deals really had nothing to do with one another. We never had to pick one. It doesn't matter if Gordon is "overrated" or better or worse for the team than Fournier. It only matters if making the deal for him would have made us a better team, and I'm pretty sure it would have.

Orlando made both players available. The cost of one player vs the other has nothing to do with the decision that was made? It was highly unlikely that The C’s were going to land both. Of course adding Fournier and Gordon without losing significant pieces would make the Team better. But that wasn’t going to happen.

We got Fournier for two 2nds, and he consumed part of the TPE. There is no way to know for sure, but it seems likely that Marcus Smart plus Nesmith plus a 1st pick may have gotten it done, because that's a bit better deal than what they got for him. Perhaps some additional salary filler would have been needed, but no TPE required. I think we would be a better team if that had happened. Getting Fournier didn't modify our capacity to get Gordon. We just didn't do it.

Fair enough. I don’t think I’d trade Smart for Gordon, though. In your scenario the C’s would be losing the best passer, defender and leader on the team. Not to mention a first round pick in Nesmith and a future 1st. Huge overpay, IMO.

[footey]

The loss of Fournier for a significant percentage of the remaining regular season has to hurt the Celtics.  It takes time to gel in the system, especially our defensive schemes, which are very different from the schemes of the Magic.

[td450]

The two deals really had nothing to do with one another. We never had to pick one. It doesn't matter if Gordon is "overrated" or better or worse for the team than Fournier. It only matters if making the deal for him would have made us a better team, and I'm pretty sure it would have.

Orlando made both players available. The cost of one player vs the other has nothing to do with the decision that was made? It was highly unlikely that The C’s were going to land both. Of course adding Fournier and Gordon without losing significant pieces would make the Team better. But that wasn’t going to happen.

We got Fournier for two 2nds, and he consumed part of the TPE. There is no way to know for sure, but it seems likely that Marcus Smart plus Nesmith plus a 1st pick may have gotten it done, because that's a bit better deal than what they got for him. Perhaps some additional salary filler would have been needed, but no TPE required. I think we would be a better team if that had happened. Getting Fournier didn't modify our capacity to get Gordon. We just didn't do it.

Fair enough. I don’t think I’d trade Smart for Gordon, though. In your scenario the C’s would be losing the best passer, defender and leader on the team. Not to mention a first round pick in Nesmith and a future 1st. Huge overpay, IMO.

Smart has always filled a lot of holes in the rotation, but we have just added two quality rotation players to the mix that haven't been here until now in Fournier and Langford that both play shooting guard. With a real PF, Brown would play more there too. While Marcus can help out at point guard, he just isn't a great primary solution there, and would have to share minutes with Walker and Pritchard. His role patching up our backcourt is starting to deteriorate.

We've had our PF slot manned by marginal players for a few years now. Semi Ojeleye and Grant Williams are marginal players. Finding a fit like Gordon is very very difficult. it justified an overpay. Marcus, Nesmith and a 1st is a lot of value, but only Marcus is part of the current equation and he isn't going to be that important going forward.

[hwangjini_1]

fournier's the better shooter

since our main offensive philosophy is clearly to jack up as many 3's as quickly as possible, fournier's a better fit.

this season, boston is 13th in the nba in number of 3s taken per game.

in terms of time of possession by team, the celtics are ranked this year at 21st. meaning 20 other teams on average shoot the ball sooner during their possession than the celtics.

stats woulds suggest that your assumption needs to be revised. may i suggest your try doing more research to see whether what your eyes and mind are telling you is accurate?

[gouki88]

Gordon plays and Fournier is a Twitter cheerleader. I'll go with Gordon.

This is pretty lame given Fournier got COVID

[Csfan1984]

Feel Gordon is better fit and player but Fournier came cheap. Hard to know what was the best choice

[cons]

fournier's the better shooter

since our main offensive philosophy is clearly to jack up as many 3's as quickly as possible, fournier's a better fit.

this season, boston is 13th in the nba in number of 3s taken per game.

in terms of time of possession by team, the celtics are ranked this year at 21st. meaning 20 other teams on average shoot the ball sooner during their possession than the celtics.


stats woulds suggest that your assumption needs to be revised. may i suggest your try doing more research to see whether what your eyes and mind are telling you is accurate?

fair enough
the stats im sure are accurate

but i look at it like this

when i was young my parents would say to me : if you see all the other kids jumping off a cliff, that doesn't mean you should jump off the cliff too

i'd like to think that our coaching staff - between the 8 of them with a combined salary more 4 million dollars per year-
could figure out that maybe there's other ways to play this game - like for instance the way it was played when we won all those championships

anyway
keep shootin those 3's everybody

[hodgy03038]

Gordon plays and Fournier is a Twitter cheerleader. I'll go with Gordon.

This is pretty lame given Fournier got COVID

'

So how did he get COVID? Did he go out partying in his new location without a mask? You know what's lame - not being professional for a team that just traded for you and used much of their TPE for you and are paying you millions of dollars to be a Twitter cheerleader.

[RockinRyA]

Gordon plays and Fournier is a Twitter cheerleader. I'll go with Gordon.

This is pretty lame given Fournier got COVID

'

So how did he get COVID? Did he go out partying in his new location without a mask? You know what's lame - not being professional for a team that just traded for you and used much of their TPE for you and are paying you millions of dollars to be a Twitter cheerleader.

This is pathetic. I hope this gets a ban. You are basically condemning a player for being a victim of a global pandemic without knowing the circumstances.

[ozgod]

The two deals really had nothing to do with one another. We never had to pick one. It doesn't matter if Gordon is "overrated" or better or worse for the team than Fournier. It only matters if making the deal for him would have made us a better team, and I'm pretty sure it would have.

Orlando made both players available. The cost of one player vs the other has nothing to do with the decision that was made? It was highly unlikely that The C’s were going to land both. Of course adding Fournier and Gordon without losing significant pieces would make the Team better. But that wasn’t going to happen.

We got Fournier for two 2nds, and he consumed part of the TPE. There is no way to know for sure, but it seems likely that Marcus Smart plus Nesmith plus a 1st pick may have gotten it done, because that's a bit better deal than what they got for him. Perhaps some additional salary filler would have been needed, but no TPE required. I think we would be a better team if that had happened. Getting Fournier didn't modify our capacity to get Gordon. We just didn't do it.

Our not doing it wasn't due to a lack of trying on the Cs part. According to Himmelsbach the Magic accepted Denver's offer because Boston had a chance to up its own initial offer.

The Celtics also offered a first-round pick and a young player to Orlando for Gordon, sources said, and they were prepared to add to that haul, but the Magic accepted Denver’s offer, which included Gary Harris Jr., R.J. Hampton, and a first-round pick, before Boston had a chance.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2021/03/26/sports/celtics-made-run-all-star-center-nikola-vucevic-will-now-focus-andre-drummond/

Of course who knows who's telling the truth. Ainge haters will doubtless blame him for starting low, while his defenders will say that the Magic jumped the gun.

[ozgod]

Gordon plays and Fournier is a Twitter cheerleader. I'll go with Gordon.

This is pretty lame given Fournier got COVID

'

So how did he get COVID? Did he go out partying in his new location without a mask? You know what's lame - not being professional for a team that just traded for you and used much of their TPE for you and are paying you millions of dollars to be a Twitter cheerleader.

Given that everything here in Boston is closed, including bars and clubs, it's unlikely he went partying here. Florida, where he came from, is a much more likely place for an athlete to party.

More likely is that he probably caught it from someone in the Cs organization or staff who was asymptomatic but wasn't being tested daily.