Author Topic: It's no mystery why The Celtics lose.  (Read 6503 times)

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It's no mystery why The Celtics lose.
« on: April 01, 2021, 12:06:43 AM »

Offline liam

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When they share the ball and play as a team mostly when it's a big game they win or at least play well. When they just go out to get there highlights and shots they lose. It's not some unsolvable mystery.

Re: It's no mystery why The Celtics lose.
« Reply #1 on: April 01, 2021, 12:11:32 AM »

Online Silas

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I am really getting tired of Tatum hogging the ball.  He is a great player but refuses to give someone else a shot when his isn't available.
I've lived through some terrible things in my life, some of which actually happened.   -  Mark Twain

Re: It's no mystery why The Celtics lose.
« Reply #2 on: April 01, 2021, 12:14:47 AM »

Offline Diggles

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He is visibly frustrated when he is not getting the ball in his spots.   I think we miss Gordon Hayward.... To bad we couldnt have kept him and moved Kemba. 

Brown
Hayward
Tatum
Time Lord
Smart

to me is better than

Brown
Kemba
Tatum
Time Lord
Smart
Diggles

Re: It's no mystery why The Celtics lose.
« Reply #3 on: April 01, 2021, 12:14:51 AM »

Offline liam

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I am really getting tired of Tatum hogging the ball.  He is a great player but refuses to give someone else a shot when his isn't available.

He loves to go 1-4 and never gets tired of chucking up a bad three at the end of a quarter.  Tatum and Beal on the same team would be a horrible team were those too would combine for 55 shots a game and all there team mates would just be standing around. That team would also be wondering why they're losing.

Re: It's no mystery why The Celtics lose.
« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2021, 12:16:03 AM »

Offline liam

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He is visibly frustrated when he is not getting the ball in his spots.   I think we miss Gordon Hayward.... To bad we couldnt have kept him and moved Kemba. 

Brown
Hayward
Tatum
Time Lord
Smart

to me is better than

Brown
Kemba
Tatum
Time Lord
Smart

If Kemba isn't scoring or dishing he has very little value on the court.

Re: It's no mystery why The Celtics lose.
« Reply #5 on: April 01, 2021, 12:19:02 AM »

Online SparzWizard

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He is visibly frustrated when he is not getting the ball in his spots.   I think we miss Gordon Hayward.... To bad we couldnt have kept him and moved Kemba. 

Brown
Hayward
Tatum
Time Lord
Smart

to me is better than

Brown
Kemba
Tatum
Time Lord
Smart

Yeah but Hayward wants to be the #1 guy, not the #3 or #4 guy on the team. He flourishes well being the #1 guy.


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I am the Master of Panic.

Re: It's no mystery why The Celtics lose.
« Reply #6 on: April 01, 2021, 12:21:28 AM »

Offline Indocelts

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The Celtics try to emulate the Warriors, lots of 3 point shootings. However they forget that they have 2 of the worst 3 pt percentage shooters. Kemba and Smart, who take so many shots, with declining defensive prowes.They should trade these 2 guys to become a more efficient team.

Stop flopping and whining all over the court. It gets to the ref’s head.

Re: It's no mystery why The Celtics lose.
« Reply #7 on: April 01, 2021, 12:35:23 AM »

Offline liam

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The Celtics try to emulate the Warriors, lots of 3 point shootings. However they forget that they have 2 of the worst 3 pt percentage shooters. Kemba and Smart, who take so many shots, with declining defensive prowes.They should trade these 2 guys to become a more efficient team.

Stop flopping and whining all over the court. It gets to the ref’s head.

It seems to make the refs give us worse calls that's true. Smart needs to be on the bench!

Re: It's no mystery why The Celtics lose.
« Reply #8 on: April 01, 2021, 12:50:04 AM »

Offline liam

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This team is much better when they push the ball, find quick shots and pass the ball. Brad should make all his players watch the games of the 86 Celtics. Passing made them great.

Re: It's no mystery why The Celtics lose.
« Reply #9 on: April 01, 2021, 01:37:21 AM »

Offline ozgod

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They're mentally weak. There's no other reason why they fall behind by huge margins and stop doing the things that work for them, like moving the ball and making the extra pass. Once they start missing shots they deviate from what they are good at and start going iso on offense, or stop moving off the ball and just stand there like statues. Tonight it looked like it was only Fournier and Pritchard moving off the ball. Passing it around the perimeter aimlesly doesn't help create shots.

And even worse, that bad habit they had from 2018-19, during Kyrie's last year, reared its ugly head again, where they let their poor offense affect their defense. Not communicating, being slow in rotation to close out to open shooters on the perimeter. NO shot 51% from the perimeter and Dallas 48%, sure some of that was Doncic hitting shots with defenders in his face but more were open shots that we were slow to close out on. That's just terrible perimeter defense.

To show how reliant we are on shooting 3s, I checked our performance this year, we have not won a single game where we shot 30% or less from 3. And we have won only one game where we shot less than 34%, which was the OKC game against a tanking team. We are the epitome of a make-miss team. Last year we had more resilience, we still won 6 games where we shot below 30% from 3 and 12 games where we shot less than 33%. This team hangs its head when it starts missing and it reverts to bad habits and Brad or the team leaders seem unable to stop it. We've lost the ability to win ugly.

We're missing a guy that makes other players better, like Hayward did for us. But Hayward wasn't with us against Toronto in the bubble...so I've been trying to look at the team and player stats of our series vs Toronto and compare it to this past month. We didn't shoot it that great either, but we kept Toronto to 40% shooting and 31% from 3, while we shot 45% overall and 33% from 3. In fact the decider we shot 40% from the floor and 23% (9 of 28) from 3...but we won. Because we defended hard. With this team either the effort isn't there or their technique is wrong and they are giving up a lot of 3s and once the opponent starts hitting them from range it affects their own offense and defense and they seem unable to stop it.
Any odd typos are because I suck at typing on an iPhone :D


Re: It's no mystery why The Celtics lose.
« Reply #10 on: April 01, 2021, 07:35:02 AM »

Offline celts55

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Seems to me, like the Tin man, they have no heart. They play with no passion, until the 4th quarter, when down by 20 or so.

I don't understand the constant worthless double teaming, that inevitably leads to a wide open 3. Unless Williams is in, they play no interior defense. There is no presence in the middle at all. Jeez, give a hard foul once in a while. Don't just watch teams go the the basket uncontested.
Maybe stop letting other teams decided match ups. Every team knows they are going to switch, much to easily, so they can get Walker guarding the guy they want. Not that anyone on that team is a stopper, and I include Smart, but Walker can't guard a chair. 

I don't recall seeing a team, an I use the term loosely, play so much ISO ball. They occasionally pass the ball aimlessly around the perimeter, but than Tatum, Walker or Brown decides it's time to go ISO with about 5-10 seconds on the clock. I know they needed to add more scorers, but what does it matter if they never see the ball. Last night, Fournier 6 shots, Pritchard 4, Kornet 5. The only other guy who shoots is Smart, the guy I wish wouldn't. You watch the other teams when Tatum starts making a move. They triple team him, as they is no concern he passes. Not only isn't it winning basketball, but it's awful to watch. Just no fun at all. I'm seriously considering not watching them for a while, it's just so frustrating. Especially when they come back in the 4th, as it shows they can play much better. They choose not to for some reason. Maybe it's Brad. Maybe he needs to sit guys when they play at 50%? I don't know, but something has to change.

Well, thanks for letting me vent. I feel a little better now.

Re: It's no mystery why The Celtics lose.
« Reply #11 on: April 01, 2021, 08:43:39 AM »

Offline Moranis

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I am really getting tired of Tatum hogging the ball.  He is a great player but refuses to give someone else a shot when his isn't available.
Brown had a a nice game but he also had 11 3's and 17 shots overall so it isn't like he didn't get the ball, but out of curiousity who other than Brown should have been getting shots last night?  Tatum had a better shooting percentage than Walker and Wagner and the same one as Smart.  Are you made Fournier didn't get more shots?  I mean that seriously.  The reason Tatum shoots the ball so much is quite simply he is the best player on the team.  He should lead the team in shots.  Do you think Warriors fans complain when Steph Curry leads the team in shots (even on his off nights) or Bucks fans when Giannis, or the Sixers when Embiid, etc. 
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Re: It's no mystery why The Celtics lose.
« Reply #12 on: April 01, 2021, 09:22:40 AM »

Offline td450

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I was expecting to see a bunch of posts trashing Kemba. He was awful. The box score said he only had one turnover. Not sure how that's possible. I know he caused several more.

We cannot turn this around with Walker and Smart as a backcourt. Each has their separate issues, but combined, they are who really kill the offensive flow. Together, the decision making is horrendous, particularly at end of games.


Re: It's no mystery why The Celtics lose.
« Reply #13 on: April 01, 2021, 09:41:18 AM »

Offline Goldstar88

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He is visibly frustrated when he is not getting the ball in his spots.   I think we miss Gordon Hayward.... To bad we couldnt have kept him and moved Kemba. 

Brown
Hayward
Tatum
Time Lord
Smart

to me is better than

Brown
Kemba
Tatum
Time Lord
Smart

If Kemba isn't scoring or dishing he has very little No value on the court.
Quoting Nick from the now locked Ime thread:
Quote
At some point you have to blame the performance on the court on the players on the court. Every loss is not the coach's fault and every win isn't because of the players.

Re: It's no mystery why The Celtics lose.
« Reply #14 on: April 01, 2021, 09:47:38 AM »

Offline nyceltsfan

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It's interesting.  I actually felt like the defense played pretty well last night.  Almost every single Doncic 3 was contested well.  Dallas got 21 points on Doncic 3s that should not have gone in at that high of a percentage.  Not only that, but they were bail out shots at the end of the shot clock in many instances.

The issue is the inability to close out the defensive possession with a rebound and too many missed 3s on offense leading to transition buckets on the other end.  I actually believe that Smart played a really good game last night, but the shots were not falling for anyone.

It also seems like the team misses free throws at the absolute worst times and that kills our momentum.

Clean up the fundamentals.