Lost season

[mobilija]

I'm ok with letting the season play out. Its always been a bridge year and season of growth. Too many big time player departures the past few years and too much youth.
I would like to see Nesmith and Langford get some run, so the team and other teams can get an idea of what they will eventually be able to contribute. Develop the skills of our young stars for future success.
As for the deadline, i doubt much happens for the celtics. But I'd be ok with dumping some players for more malleable assets, ie players for picks. I'm thinking Theis, Semi, maybe Gwill, players that may have value to contenders or wannabe contenders. Take advantage of the sellers market.
In the offseason...shake it up! Use the TPE, raw players, draft picks, players that dont quite fit and try for a big reshape. Shooters and high IQ players, some dogs on defense. A hub to make something other than iso offense work for this team.
Anywho....Im gonna try and enjoy the team as science experiment. Find out what works and what doesnt and hope that an off-season overhaul can get us heading in the right direction.

[Goldstar88]

1.5 games out of the 4th seed. Definitely should throw the towel in now...

Who cares? Do you actually buy for a 2nd that the Cs could even make the EC Finals this year? Much less win them? Much less beat any team in the West in the finals?

If there's no banner in the cards, invest in the future. Simple as that.

If they play up to their potential, I think they could make the ECF. I don’t think there is any move(s) that they can make either this year or next to get by the Nets, though. They probably finish out the year as a 4-5 seed which is not a lost season.

If they fail to show forward progress along any dimension, that would fairly be considered a lost season.

The Celts are past moral victories and development years.  They have two All-Stars locked up on max or near-max money.  Every season they don't put themselves in a position to make a deep run is a wasted opportunity.

Brown just developed into an All-Star this year. Timelord is developing into a legit starting center this season. Pritchard is learning how to play in the NBA. Romeo is a huge question mark. Team needs more time.

Two big things here:

First,

Brown has 3 years left after this one, Tatum has 4.

There just aren't that many seasons to burn.

Second,

Will there be cap space in the future?  Draft assets to use?  Where is the improvement coming from?



Even if Rob Williams continues on a trajectory to being an above average starting center, and Pritchard continues to look like a nice find as a solid backup point guard .... is that enough around Tatum and Brown to be anything much more than they are now?


I haven't seen a good explanation for why waiting, being patient, developing the players, etc is going to lead to a drastically different picture than the one we have now.  Best case scenario, by the time some of the younger players come along (let's assume optimistically that Langford and Nesmith turn into quality pieces), there will just be a year or two left to actually make runs with Tatum and Brown.

You cool getting to see just one or two serious playoff runs with Tatum and Brown leading the way?  Personally I hoped we might get to more than that.

I’m not happy about it, but other than adding Lebron or another top 5 player in the league, they cannot compete with Brooklyn for the next year, maybe 2. Ainge needs to move on from Kemba in the off season and add a star that is around the same age as Brown and Tatum. I don’t think they have any other choice but to wait.

[PhoSita]

I’m not happy about it, but other than adding Lebron or another top 5 player in the league, they cannot compete with Brooklyn for the next year, maybe 2. Ainge needs to move on from Kemba in the off season and add a star that is around the same age as Brown and Tatum. I don’t think they have any other choice but to wait.

Comes down to a question of your priorities.


Are you only bothering to compete in the short term if you can be on the same talent level as the top teams? Or are you trying to maximize the core you have now and let the chips fall where they may?

Are you "title contention or don't bother" or are you "put the best team on the floor that you can given the resources at your disposal"?


Personally I think "title contention or don't bother" is way too narrow of a view.  Unless you draft the next LeBron / KD, you're never going to be in a position where you are certain that you're on the same level as the most talented teams in the league.  You're certainly not going to be in a position to sign such a player.


And again, if you wait for the way to be clear, you'll be left with just a season or two of Tatum and Brown before it's time to consider the possibility of them leaving.  If the Celts are coming up on 1-2 years from Brown hitting free agency, and they still appear to be a clear cut second or third tier playoff team, what reason will they have to think that Brown is going to stick around?  What about Tatum?

You could wait for Brooklyn or whoever else to fade and by the time it *maybe* happens, you have to start looking for trade options for your main guys because you can't afford to have them leave for nothing in unrestricted free agency.


The Celts have two in-their-prime All-Star wings locked up for several years.  This is the time to try to win.  Not later.  Forget about what the rest of the league looks like.  You can't control that.  Once Brooklyn fades, there will be another superteam.

[Goldstar88]

I’m not happy about it, but other than adding Lebron or another top 5 player in the league, they cannot compete with Brooklyn for the next year, maybe 2. Ainge needs to move on from Kemba in the off season and add a star that is around the same age as Brown and Tatum. I don’t think they have any other choice but to wait.

Comes down to a question of your priorities.


Are you only bothering to compete in the short term if you can be on the same talent level as the top teams? Or are you trying to maximize the core you have now and let the chips fall where they may?

Are you "title contention or don't bother" or are you "put the best team on the floor that you can given the resources at your disposal"?


Personally I think "title contention or don't bother" is way too narrow of a view.  Unless you draft the next LeBron / KD, you're never going to be in a position where you are certain that you're on the same level as the most talented teams in the league.  You're certainly not going to be in a position to sign such a player.


And again, if you wait for the way to be clear, you'll be left with just a season or two of Tatum and Brown before it's time to consider the possibility of them leaving.  If the Celts are coming up on 1-2 years from Brown hitting free agency, and they still appear to be a clear cut second or third tier playoff team, what reason will they have to think that Brown is going to stick around?  What about Tatum?

You could wait for Brooklyn or whoever else to fade and by the time it *maybe* happens, you have to start looking for trade options for your main guys because you can't afford to have them leave for nothing in unrestricted free agency.


The Celts have two in-their-prime All-Star wings locked up for several years.  This is the time to try to win.  Not later.  Forget about what the rest of the league looks like.  You can't control that.  Once Brooklyn fades, there will be another superteam.

It’s not whoever else, it’s just Brooklyn. No other team has that kind of talent. Has any team had 3 top 10 players on their roster at the same time, ever?

Once Brooklyn fades, the C’s could be that next super team. If Danny can just find a way to get Beal....

[PhoSita]

Once Brooklyn fades, the C’s could be that next super team. If Danny can just find a way to get Beal....

In the last decade

2011-2014 -- Heat

2016-2019 -- Warriors

2021-??? -- Nets


So there was maybe a window in 15-16 and 19-20.  Otherwise, superteams have ruled the day. 

[CelticSooner]

Trader Danny is pretty much dead. I honestly think ownership on down are content on being potential contenders hoping something falls in their lap. Waited too long while trying to develop and win at the same time. The minute Hayward walked that put the C’s into treadmill status. Watching Brooklyn jump over the C’s after they swindled them is going to suck. Watching Tatum leave down the line will be even worse.

[Goldstar88]

Once Brooklyn fades, the C’s could be that next super team. If Danny can just find a way to get Beal....

In the last decade

2011-2014 -- Heat

2016-2019 -- Warriors

2021-??? -- Nets


So there was maybe a window in 15-16 and 19-20.  Otherwise, superteams have ruled the day.

Bosh was never a top 10 player at any point of his career.

Klay was never a top 10 player at any point of his career.

Top 15-20 yes. Brooklyn is taking it to another level and It’s really bad for the NBA

[GreenCoffeeBean]

Once Brooklyn fades, the C’s could be that next super team. If Danny can just find a way to get Beal....

In the last decade

2011-2014 -- Heat

2016-2019 -- Warriors

2021-??? -- Nets


So there was maybe a window in 15-16 and 19-20.  Otherwise, superteams have ruled the day.

Bosh was never a top 10 player at any point of his career.

Klay was never a top 10 player at any point of his career.

Top 15-20 yes. Brooklyn is taking it to another level and It’s really bad for the NBA

Basketball is a team sport and Klay is #1 at a very valuable position.

[gouki88]

Once Brooklyn fades, the C’s could be that next super team. If Danny can just find a way to get Beal....

In the last decade

2011-2014 -- Heat

2016-2019 -- Warriors

2021-??? -- Nets


So there was maybe a window in 15-16 and 19-20.  Otherwise, superteams have ruled the day.

Bosh was never a top 10 player at any point of his career.

Klay was never a top 10 player at any point of his career.

Top 15-20 yes. Brooklyn is taking it to another level and It’s really bad for the NBA

Golden State had two top 15-20 guys in Draymond and Klay alongside two top-5 guys in Curry and KD. And KD was better back then.

[Rikibellevie]

Once Brooklyn fades, the C’s could be that next super team. If Danny can just find a way to get Beal....

In the last decade

2011-2014 -- Heat

2016-2019 -- Warriors

2021-??? -- Nets


So there was maybe a window in 15-16 and 19-20.  Otherwise, superteams have ruled the day.

Bosh was never a top 10 player at any point of his career.

Klay was never a top 10 player at any point of his career.

Top 15-20 yes. Brooklyn is taking it to another level and It’s really bad for the NBA

Golden State had two top 15-20 guys in Draymond and Klay alongside two top-5 guys in Curry and KD. And KD was better back then.

Heat was a superteam, but not Golden State before Durant on my opinion.

Whatever I have a question why almost everybody take as a fact the Nets will win it all ? Personnaly they even are not my favorite. It is like if one fantastic month of Harden and a wonderfull one of Irving made forget about all the past doubt even very recent about their stars (instability of Irving, PO choke of Harden, Durant health) ans their roster (are you sure Bruce Brown, Shamet realy passed a huge step ? Deandre rebirth ? Griffin still  BB player?). For me Lakers are still favorite. And in the east, Phily and even Bucks have argument to beat the Nets. Am I the only one to not be convinced by one month of great basketball to definite a dinasty ? I didn't look to bookmakers but I guess Laker still have the best chances.

After there is chance they continue to build their superteam with buyouts, but I guess Lebron also have arguments to attract Drummond kind of players...

PS : and on my opinion, for the thris, it is never a lost season. On the contrary, this season may have learnt many things to the Jays. I still think with their talent and work ethic we will soon be great. Maybe ot as soon as I thought. But I am a believer !

[NKY fan]

Julius Randle - 17 assists tonight. Why didn’t we go after him 2 summers age? 🤦🏻‍♂️
Keep Terry and we would be a force now.
I bet our brain trust thought that both Rozier and Randle were being offered too much money - money that is better spent on maxing Kemba

[Surferdad]

Trader Danny is pretty much dead. I honestly think ownership on down are content on being potential contenders hoping something falls in their lap. Waited too long while trying to develop and win at the same time. The minute Hayward walked that put the C’s into treadmill status. Watching Brooklyn jump over the C’s after they swindled them is going to suck. Watching Tatum leave down the line will be even worse.

Fully agree on all points.  They wanted to re-build on the fly to keep the team competitive and thus retain a generation of fans.  That's a different goal than winning a championship.

The difference with this Nets Big-3 is that they are all in their primes, while their previous Big-3 after we swindled them were guys late in their career.  Nets could be top of the East for a long time.

[Goldstar88]

Once Brooklyn fades, the C’s could be that next super team. If Danny can just find a way to get Beal....

In the last decade

2011-2014 -- Heat

2016-2019 -- Warriors

2021-??? -- Nets


So there was maybe a window in 15-16 and 19-20.  Otherwise, superteams have ruled the day.

Bosh was never a top 10 player at any point of his career.

Klay was never a top 10 player at any point of his career.

Top 15-20 yes. Brooklyn is taking it to another level and It’s really bad for the NBA

Golden State had two top 15-20 guys in Draymond and Klay alongside two top-5 guys in Curry and KD. And KD was better back then.

I don’t think Draymond Green was ever a top 15-20 player.

[Moranis]

Once Brooklyn fades, the C’s could be that next super team. If Danny can just find a way to get Beal....

In the last decade

2011-2014 -- Heat

2016-2019 -- Warriors

2021-??? -- Nets


So there was maybe a window in 15-16 and 19-20.  Otherwise, superteams have ruled the day.

Bosh was never a top 10 player at any point of his career.

Klay was never a top 10 player at any point of his career.

Top 15-20 yes. Brooklyn is taking it to another level and It’s really bad for the NBA

Golden State had two top 15-20 guys in Draymond and Klay alongside two top-5 guys in Curry and KD. And KD was better back then.

I don’t think Draymond Green was ever a top 15-20 player.

Draymond was 2nd Team All NBA and 3rd Team All NBA in consecutive seasons.  And the 3rd Team year was the year he was DPOY and that was a Durant year.  I think that pretty clearly puts him into the top 15-20 for a couple of years at least and at least 1 of which was after Durant came to town.

As for Bosh, I don't know if he was ever a top 10 player, but he did finish 4th in PER his last year in Toronto and was also 12th in MVP voting that year (and given Toronto wasn't very good that is actually fairly impressive).  I'd put Bosh on a similar level to Irving, but without the flashy scoring, which held him back some on the post-season accolades.  In other words a top 15ish player, but not a top 10 guy. 

So I guess I don't think of the Nets as really much different than the Heat and they certainly aren't as good the Warriors were when they were at full health.  In fact, I think you could argue that the 17 Warriors were the greatest collection of talent on one team in league history.  And it isn't like they didn't prove it on the court by winning 67 regular season games and then losing 1 game in the playoffs.  They had two top 5 players and two elite level supporting players (including as mentioned the DPOY).  They had some quality veterans who knew their role and played it well.  Not the deepest team ever, but with the 4 at the top I think you could argue they were the best team in league history.

[cman88]

Trader Danny is pretty much dead. I honestly think ownership on down are content on being potential contenders hoping something falls in their lap. Waited too long while trying to develop and win at the same time. The minute Hayward walked that put the C’s into treadmill status. Watching Brooklyn jump over the C’s after they swindled them is going to suck. Watching Tatum leave down the line will be even worse.

Fully agree on all points.  They wanted to re-build on the fly to keep the team competitive and thus retain a generation of fans.  That's a different goal than winning a championship.

The difference with this Nets Big-3 is that they are all in their primes, while their previous Big-3 after we swindled them were guys late in their career.  Nets could be top of the East for a long time.

lets slow down on the "long time" james harden is 31, durant is 32 and now injured all the time and Irving who is younger is also injured alot.

Miami heat only lasted about 3-4 years.