Lost season

[slamtheking]

I’ll give you one worse.  This might be a lost era.  We’re putting all our chips on the Jays and they just might not be it.  And, our avenues for improvement aren’t really there.

I think this is where Danny really needs to take the heat.  He did a terrific job acquiring a lot of assets to rebuild this team after the PP-KG era.  Lots of picks, including ones that became Brown and Tatum as well as an asset used to acquire Kyrie, as well as the signings of some top FAs when he had the cap room to do so.  trades for players that either outperformed their worth (IT) or were already incredibly talented (Kyrie). So much potential to really build a contending team for years. 

instead, we have this now.  the top FAs have all left except Kemba who's unable to play back to back games, a number of those picks not performing either due to injuries (Timelord before this year, Romeo, Nesmith when drafted) or p---ed away because he couldn't afford to keep the players drafted due to either not being able to consolidate picks to move up or trade them for better players (Yabu, Zizic, Bane) so we get bad draft-and-stash players instead of better players who were on the board that couldn't be stashed or we just plain gave them away.

I knew they'd be a bit worse this season than last due to losing Hayward but I didn't think they'd drop off this badly.  I'm coming around to the idea for this team to be a seller at the deadline instead of a buyer.  so many teams looking to improve with the parity in the league this year that we should be able to move some of TT, Theis, Teague, Semi, GWill, Smart, Kemba for something.  The team is not functioning as currently constructed and will need some real changes before the next season.  might as well accrue some assets to be able to make better (or any) deals in the offseason.

[Goldstar88]

1.5 games out of the 4th seed. Definitely should throw the towel in now...

[Sophomore]

I think the Rise of Rob has been a good thing

That’s the strange thing about this year. The biggest questions I had were: would Tatum and Brown take another step forward, and would TL emerge as a legitimate starter. The answer to all three questions has been yes, and yet the team is worse than last year.

I definitely don't think Tatum has taken another step forward. Brown was looking better, but has regressed lately - hopefully he can get past his tendonitis. TL otoh has looked great and I agree that he has been a joy to watch.

Here’s the crazy thing about Tatum. His shot selection drives me bananas, and team’s assist rate is way down. At the same time, he raised his assists per game from 3 to 4.4, and he clearly makes passes he couldn’t make last year. He’s stronger, too, better at getting to the rim when he decides to. Can I also point out flaws in his game? You bet. But it’s hard for me to say he’s worse than last year. Maybe you’re right this way - even if his skills are more refined, his approach to the game hasn’t improved.

[todd_days_41]

1.5 games out of the 4th seed. Definitely should throw the towel in now...

Who cares? Do you actually buy for a 2nd that the Cs could even make the EC Finals this year? Much less win them? Much less beat any team in the West in the finals?

If there's no banner in the cards, invest in the future. Simple as that.

[Goldstar88]

1.5 games out of the 4th seed. Definitely should throw the towel in now...

Who cares? Do you actually buy for a 2nd that the Cs could even make the EC Finals this year? Much less win them? Much less beat any team in the West in the finals?

If there's no banner in the cards, invest in the future. Simple as that.

If they play up to their potential, I think they could make the ECF. I don’t think there is any move(s) that they can make either this year or next to get by the Nets, though. They probably finish out the year as a 4-5 seed which is not a lost season.

[esel1000]

I pride myself on being the eternal optimist with this team, but we either need to go entirely young or make trades for better veterans. Whatever Danny is doing isn't working. He'd have to be stubborn and/or crazy to think standing pat at the deadline is the move.

I am frustrated!

I said this after the Wizards loss and I’m sticking with it. If he does nothing at the deadline, it’ll be time to hand the keys to Zarren.

I'm confused...if it's a lost season why should we do something at the deadline? Unless it would be to be sellers. Shouldn't we wait till the offseason to upgrade the team since we can spend more of the TPE?

Or do we just want Danny to make a feel-good move for the sake of making one?

Because we need a direction... standing pat is weak.

Buyers/sellers, whatever, but something needs to happen.

[PhoSita]

1.5 games out of the 4th seed. Definitely should throw the towel in now...

Who cares? Do you actually buy for a 2nd that the Cs could even make the EC Finals this year? Much less win them? Much less beat any team in the West in the finals?

If there's no banner in the cards, invest in the future. Simple as that.

If they play up to their potential, I think they could make the ECF. I don’t think there is any move(s) that they can make either this year or next to get by the Nets, though. They probably finish out the year as a 4-5 seed which is not a lost season.

If they fail to show forward progress along any dimension, that would fairly be considered a lost season.

The Celts are past moral victories and development years.  They have two All-Stars locked up on max or near-max money.  Every season they don't put themselves in a position to make a deep run is a wasted opportunity.

[LilRip]

I don’t think it’s been a wasted season. TL’s development was welcome, JB became an allstar, and JT is legit!

No way we can get out of the East though. Is there any other team with 2 allstars that’s struggling? Or is that just us?

[Goldstar88]

1.5 games out of the 4th seed. Definitely should throw the towel in now...

Who cares? Do you actually buy for a 2nd that the Cs could even make the EC Finals this year? Much less win them? Much less beat any team in the West in the finals?

If there's no banner in the cards, invest in the future. Simple as that.

If they play up to their potential, I think they could make the ECF. I don’t think there is any move(s) that they can make either this year or next to get by the Nets, though. They probably finish out the year as a 4-5 seed which is not a lost season.

If they fail to show forward progress along any dimension, that would fairly be considered a lost season.

The Celts are past moral victories and development years.  They have two All-Stars locked up on max or near-max money.  Every season they don't put themselves in a position to make a deep run is a wasted opportunity.

Brown just developed into an All-Star this year. Timelord is developing into a legit starting center this season. Pritchard is learning how to play in the NBA. Romeo is a huge question mark. Team needs more time.

[PhoSita]

1.5 games out of the 4th seed. Definitely should throw the towel in now...

Who cares? Do you actually buy for a 2nd that the Cs could even make the EC Finals this year? Much less win them? Much less beat any team in the West in the finals?

If there's no banner in the cards, invest in the future. Simple as that.

If they play up to their potential, I think they could make the ECF. I don’t think there is any move(s) that they can make either this year or next to get by the Nets, though. They probably finish out the year as a 4-5 seed which is not a lost season.

If they fail to show forward progress along any dimension, that would fairly be considered a lost season.

The Celts are past moral victories and development years.  They have two All-Stars locked up on max or near-max money.  Every season they don't put themselves in a position to make a deep run is a wasted opportunity.

Brown just developed into an All-Star this year. Timelord is developing into a legit starting center this season. Pritchard is learning how to play in the NBA. Romeo is a huge question mark. Team needs more time.

Two big things here:

First,

Brown has 3 years left after this one, Tatum has 4.

There just aren't that many seasons to burn.

Second,

Will there be cap space in the future?  Draft assets to use?  Where is the improvement coming from?



Even if Rob Williams continues on a trajectory to being an above average starting center, and Pritchard continues to look like a nice find as a solid backup point guard .... is that enough around Tatum and Brown to be anything much more than they are now?


I haven't seen a good explanation for why waiting, being patient, developing the players, etc is going to lead to a drastically different picture than the one we have now.  Best case scenario, by the time some of the younger players come along (let's assume optimistically that Langford and Nesmith turn into quality pieces), there will just be a year or two left to actually make runs with Tatum and Brown.

You cool getting to see just one or two serious playoff runs with Tatum and Brown leading the way?  Personally I hoped we might get to more than that.

[PhoSita]

I don’t think it’s been a wasted season. TL’s development was welcome, JB became an allstar, and JT is legit!

No way we can get out of the East though. Is there any other team with 2 allstars that’s struggling? Or is that just us?

The Heat were struggling but are now coming on strong and are ahead of the Celts.

I guess you could point to the Pelicans, inasmuch as people thought of Ingram and Zion as All-Star type talents.  They're just plain bad.

Another team that comes to mind is the Mavericks, but I don't think Porzingis has been an All-Star type player in a while.

[seancally]

Thought about the Celtics’ issues a lot. There are myriad. But a big one, to me, is the lack of a guy who has a high IQ, winning-plays brain. Horford was a solid, steady presence who made the right plays and was reliable down the stretch. Hayward, last season, was that player - good passer, good decision-maker, greased the wheels. Even though we lost him for the playoffs the team was imbued with that mentality throughout the regular season, and frankly, they won on superior talent against TOR and because PHI was a dumpster fire. But the winning brain wasn’t there against Miami.

Smart is a winner but he’s not that kind of player. He makes great plays but he’s not greasing the wheels and he forces too many shots. Tatum and Brown are not either. They’re too young and will need to develop into that level, like Lebron, Kawhi, KD and others have. Jimmy Butler. Even Lowry. The guys who are in the right place at the right time, always make the right decision, read the game, think 2 plays ahead. It takes time to develop that which is why stars don’t win titles when they’re young, typically.

So that’s what we’re waiting for either by trade or by development. Without it we’re basically out.

[spikelovetheCelts]

Thought about the Celtics’ issues a lot. There are myriad. But a big one, to me, is the lack of a guy who has a high IQ, winning-plays brain. Horford was a solid, steady presence who made the right plays and was reliable down the stretch. Hayward, last season, was that player - good passer, good decision-maker, greased the wheels. Even though we lost him for the playoffs the team was imbued with that mentality throughout the regular season, and frankly, they won on superior talent against TOR and because PHI was a dumpster fire. But the winning brain wasn’t there against Miami.

Smart is a winner but he’s not that kind of player. He makes great plays but he’s not greasing the wheels and he forces too many shots. Tatum and Brown are not either. They’re too young and will need to develop into that level, like Lebron, Kawhi, KD and others have. Jimmy Butler. Even Lowry. The guys who are in the right place at the right time, always make the right decision, read the game, think 2 plays ahead. It takes time to develop that which is why stars don’t win titles when they’re young, typically.

So that’s what we’re waiting for either by trade or by development. Without it we’re basically out.

Exactly Brown and Tatum need some time to learn to lead. Hopefully Kemba will lead soon or we will not win a series this year. I don't think anyone beats the Nets if they are healthy. They will add two more buyouts as well. But we could make the EFC if we stay at 6 and beat the bucks and 76ers.

[seancally]

Thought about the Celtics’ issues a lot. There are myriad. But a big one, to me, is the lack of a guy who has a high IQ, winning-plays brain. Horford was a solid, steady presence who made the right plays and was reliable down the stretch. Hayward, last season, was that player - good passer, good decision-maker, greased the wheels. Even though we lost him for the playoffs the team was imbued with that mentality throughout the regular season, and frankly, they won on superior talent against TOR and because PHI was a dumpster fire. But the winning brain wasn’t there against Miami.

Smart is a winner but he’s not that kind of player. He makes great plays but he’s not greasing the wheels and he forces too many shots. Tatum and Brown are not either. They’re too young and will need to develop into that level, like Lebron, Kawhi, KD and others have. Jimmy Butler. Even Lowry. The guys who are in the right place at the right time, always make the right decision, read the game, think 2 plays ahead. It takes time to develop that which is why stars don’t win titles when they’re young, typically.

So that’s what we’re waiting for either by trade or by development. Without it we’re basically out.

Exactly Brown and Tatum need some time to learn to lead. Hopefully Kemba will lead soon or we will not win a series this year. I don't think anyone beats the Nets if they are healthy. They will add two more buyouts as well. But we could make the EFC if we stay at 6 and beat the bucks and 76ers.

Totally - but to clarify my point, it isn’t just leading, it’s influencing the game. The pace, the flow, the way things unfold... leadership certainly is a part of that but also skill, IQ, decisiveness, gravitas, magic beans, whatever.

[#1P4P]

This team, except for Thompson, Teague, Pritchard, and Nesmith, ended the previous season in September and returned in December. It was the shortest offseason ever and this season’s schedule is one of the tightest in years. This season is and will continue to be a grind until the end.

Our Walker-Smart-Brown-Tatum-Theis lineup has been on the floor for 30 minutes in 40 games. This team is young, Tatum and Brown are averaging career highs and still learning on the fly.

This is an Ironman season, playoff teams will have injuries to key players and will be exhausted in a tight playoff series. I like our chances in a season like this, this team seems to be missing the resiliency which characterized past Stevens’ teams, but if we get fully healthy, this tune will be changing.

Because of the nature of the season, including us, Milwaukee are the least injury prone among their core (except for Holiday) and I won’t be surprised to see them or us outlast Brooklyn and Philly.