Gasper: Beal for Brown trade proposal. Yes or No? (poll)

[Tr1boy]

If I were starting a franchise, I’d pick Beal over Brown. But I’d pick Tatum over either of them. Brown fills the role of a secondary star better because he’s a better defender and is more versatile.

Yes but the argument can be made that Beal is the better scorer.  Beal is a better scorer than either Tatum or Brown at the moment

Against the Heat in the playoffs, the Celtics couldn't buy a bucket in the 4th quarter (games 1, 6 etc).  Thats how the series was lost

[Moranis]

Nope.  no reason to shrink the window for a player that tops out as a #2 who has a similar ceiling to Brown.

Are you serious?

Beal is elite

To be fair Tatum, Beal and Brown all look like they're going to 'top out as #2s' right now in an ideal situation. It doesn't mean that they can't be #1s on viable title contenders, they would just need more help than truly great players.

Tatum absolutely has #1, MVP level potential.  May not get there of course, but Tatum imo is a future franchise player.  His progression has been fantastic and he has all of the tools. I'd actually be surprised if Tatum doesn't have at least 1 top 5 season (i.e. top 5 MVP voting finish) in his career.

By that logic every half decent draft prospect has All-Star potential , my point was that it's unlikely that he'll get to that level.

And I sound like a broken record at this point, but accolades absolutely suck at evaluating how good a player is. It's very much possible Tatum can get a top 5 MVP finish this year if we go on a run just from our guys coming back and most people on this forum would say that it's undeserved. Heck, Anthony Davis has never had a top 5 MVP voting finish and a good amount of people would say that he's one of the best players in the league, if not the best.

There aren't many players in league history that make an All NBA Team in their 3rd year that don't end up as at a minimum perennial All NBA Team members.  And if you are a perennial All NBA Team member it isn't that much of a leap to be a a top 5 type guy.  Again given the super young age, the odds are definitely to the side of Tatum developing into that sort of player just given what he has already done in his first 3 years (which he has continued to progress now in year 4). 

Davis has two top 5 MVP finishes (5th in 15, 3rd in 18) and a 6th place finish (20 - he also finished 9th in 17).  He'd probably have more if he had been healthier throughout his career.  And that is playing on what have generally been mediocre teams (last year wasn't, but he also wasn't the best player on his own team).

My bad about Davis. But the fact that he finished lower in his best year compared to his early prime years does prove my point that awards are generally unreliable at predicting how good a player is - he was qualitatively so much better than he was in '15 and '18 last season.

Paul George made an All-NBA and All-Defensive team in his third season at a similar age, but he was never a true MVP level player unless you think he deserved his 3rd placed finish in 2019 over the likes of Jokic, Curry, LeBron, Durant, Embiid and Kawhi lol. It's a huge leap to go from a perennial All-NBA candidate into a true MVP calibre player, it generally gets more and more difficult to improve the higher you go as a player.

George absolutely deserved his 3rd place finish that season.  He had an absolutely fantastic season.  He was 3rd in DPOY voting as well.  Just a remarkably balanced and great season.  28/8/4 led the league with 2.2 steals.  Elite level play on both ends of the floor.  George was not the 3rd best player in basketball, but he easily had the 3rd best season that year. 

As for Davis, he finished 6th last year because he played with Lebron James who was better than him and got a lot of votes.  The fact that Davis finished 6th in a year his teammate finished 2nd is actually quite remarkable.  Durant/Westbrook is the last time a duo finished in the top 6 in 2016, Durant was 4th and Russ was 5th (before that it was Kobe/Shaq in 04 at 5th and 6th - they were 5th and 3rd the two years before that as well).  Jordan and Pippen did it once.  It just doesn't happen that often. 

[Kuberski33]

Getting stops with the game on the line is still necessary if you're going to be a top team. If you make this deal who's guarding LeBron/Butler/Kawhi etc? Semi?
Also trading a young all star whose career is still ascending and just signed a new deal is not a wise move - ever.

[todd_days_41]

Real creative idea, Gasper.

[Birdman]

Tatum and Beal are great friends and wants to play together at all star game...

[Muzzy66]

I would think about it, depending on that overall deal.

I like Brown and Tatum, but I do feel their games overlap enough that they are a tad redundant.  I do feel Beal + Tatum is a better duo then Brown + Tatum on fit alone.

It's right on the borderline, but I'd consider it. 

[Big333223]

This is one of those trades that, if it was a video game, I wouldn't hesitate. Beal is better than Brown and still only 27 which is fine.

But in reality, I love Jaylen Brown. I like that he's only ever played for Boston. I think he's good enough to be a #2 on a championship team and he keeps getting better. It would be more satisfying to keep Brown and win a championship with him than trade for Beal and then win one.

If I thought a championship was very unlikely with Brown, then I'd want to make the trade because the ring is the thing but, even though Beal is better, he doesn't raise the ceiling enough to offset my attachment to Jaylen.

[Phantom255x]

No. The other thing to consider is defense. Jaylen's a much better defender than Beal. And not to sound like I'm bashing Beal and primarily blaming him here. But there's a reason the Wizards are 13-19 and weren't good last season either. Beal can put up numbers, but even he admits in pressers that he isn't doing that well on the defensive end and neither is the team. He has to exert so much of his energy on offense.

If he came here, he's not putting up 40+ nightly and I think the defense would still take a hit with Brown going out. Smart isn't going to rescue it alone.

[nickagneta]

Comparing Beal's fifth season in the league to Jaylen's fifth season this year, it remarkable how similar the two are at the same time in their career. Jaylen scored, assisted and rebounded slightly better and Beal shot slightly better and scored slightly more efficiently. The biggest difference between the two players is probably that Jaylen is the better defender at a similar time in their careers.

Because of this, I think you have to keep Brown because he is on a bargain contract, and in a couple years might be just as good a scorer as Beal is now, if he takes a similar career progression path.

Given the jumps in the quality of his game the last two years, it would suck to move Jaylen only to find that next year he takes a similar jump and is suddenly being looked at as a top 10 player in the league.

[LilRip]

If I were starting a franchise, I’d pick Beal over Brown. But I’d pick Tatum over either of them. Brown fills the role of a secondary star better because he’s a better defender and is more versatile.

Another problem the team runs into is that having Kemba and Beal on the same team feels redundant. Granted, if you have a chance to get a star, you should capitalize and then figure out how to make the pieces fit later (for example: maybe try to unload Kemba in the off-season). But the price of giving up Brown is steep for something that’ll shake up your team

I'd take the guy who can maintain his value better next to better and better teammates. You're not going anywhere with Beal as your best player unless you have an incredible supporting cast around him, Brown gives you slightly worse floor raising (his defence makes up considerable ground, especially come playoff time) while being a considerably better ceiling raiser next to other on-ball talent.

Are you saying 1) you’d pick Brown to be the best player on your team and 2) you’d be going somewhere with Brown as your best player even without an incredible supporting cast?

[cltc5]

Brad and Gordon were former coach/teammates and almost won a national title together.  Gordon came to Boston mostly because of brad...how’d that work out

[Tr1boy]

Another way to look at this is

who demands double teams

And you don't see teams double teaming Brown. Even late in games or even if he is going off.  For whatever reason, not part of
opposing team strategy

Tatum demands a double team.  So does Beal. 

Opponents couldn't double team both. 


People state that Brown is a better defender. Which is true. But in the last 2 years of the playoffs. I would say offense mattered a little more. I mean Heat was able to get by with players like Duncan Robinson, Herro, Dragic, KO on defense.  Lakers had some holes also

Teams can get by with team defense.  But usually have a harder time via team offense in the playoffs.

[PAOBoston]

Another way to look at this is

who demands double teams

And you don't see teams double teaming Brown. Even late in games or even if he is going off.  For whatever reason, not part of
opposing team strategy

Tatum demands a double team.  So does Beal. 

Opponents couldn't double team both. 


People state that Brown is a better defender. Which is true. But in the last 2 years of the playoffs. I would say offense mattered a little more. I mean Heat was able to get by with players like Duncan Robinson, Herro, Dragic, KO on defense.  Lakers had some holes also

Teams can get by with team defense.  But usually have a harder time via team offense in the playoffs.

Pretty much this. Very surprised tbh by people hesitant to trade Brown for Beal. Beal is a certified bucket getter and someone you can give the ball too and just go get a bucket. He’s also a grifter as he gets to the line, something neither JT nor JB do at all. He’s an incredibly impactful offensive force and that matters in the playoffs. How many times have we seen this team crumble in playoff games because they literally can’t generate any offense?

[Tr1boy]

Another way to look at this is

who demands double teams

And you don't see teams double teaming Brown. Even late in games or even if he is going off.  For whatever reason, not part of
opposing team strategy

Tatum demands a double team.  So does Beal. 

Opponents couldn't double team both. 


People state that Brown is a better defender. Which is true. But in the last 2 years of the playoffs. I would say offense mattered a little more. I mean Heat was able to get by with players like Duncan Robinson, Herro, Dragic, KO on defense.  Lakers had some holes also

Teams can get by with team defense.  But usually have a harder time via team offense in the playoffs.

Pretty much this. Very surprised tbh by people hesitant to trade Brown for Beal. Beal is a certified bucket getter and someone you can give the ball too and just go get a bucket. He’s also a grifter as he gets to the line, something neither JT nor JB do at all. He’s an incredibly impactful offensive force and that matters in the playoffs. How many times have we seen this team crumble in playoff games because they literally can’t generate any offense?

yup and we have seen this in the last 2 meetings

Beal literally runs into Theis or someone slightly taps him.  Refs have no problem sending him to the FT line

Maybe he "fakes" it better.  Not sure, but getting to the line and causing foul problems is an underrated strategy

[keevsnick]

I dont think this trade makes sense. Beal is probably a better player right now in a vacuum, but he's not some superstar that puts you over the top. His defensive limitations plus the fit issue of playing him next to another small guard who sucks defensively in kemba means I'm not even sure you even actually improve the team's upside. Plus he's thre years older and about to be muuuuch more expensive (Brown a a sub 25% max, neal will get a 35% max), not signed long term.

This move just kind of doesnt move the needle enough to do bother.

The goal needs to be add stairs star to Brown/Tatum, not swap out one for a lateral move.