Gasper: Beal for Brown trade proposal. Yes or No? (poll)

[gouki88]

Nope.  no reason to shrink the window for a player that tops out as a #2 who has a similar ceiling to Brown.

Are you serious?

Beal is elite

Beal has only ever been a #2 on teams that have been good though, just like Brown. Beal has never shown to be able to be a #1 guy on a good team, and would be much more expensive than JB as well as being older.

These past two years he has shown to be a #1.  This season, he is leading the league in PPG

Leading the league in PPG but #2 type player?

Yeah, but he's doing it on a terrible team. I doubt Beal gets 24 shots on any halfway decent team, and he's only ever been a #2 guy on good teams

They are 7-3 in their last 10 games

Much better than the Celts

If Bonga hits one open three we lose tonight. 

Beal has to do the heavy lifting but is also clutch

Yup, a 10 game run discounts a whole career of evidence!

[Somebody]

Nope.  no reason to shrink the window for a player that tops out as a #2 who has a similar ceiling to Brown.

Are you serious?

Beal is elite

Beal has only ever been a #2 on teams that have been good though, just like Brown. Beal has never shown to be able to be a #1 guy on a good team, and would be much more expensive than JB as well as being older.

These past two years he has shown to be a #1.  This season, he is leading the league in PPG

Leading the league in PPG but #2 type player?

Yeah, but he's doing it on a terrible team. I doubt Beal gets 24 shots on any halfway decent team, and he's only ever been a #2 guy on good teams

They are 7-3 in their last 10 games

Much better than the Celts

If Bonga hits one open three we lose tonight. 

Beal has to do the heavy lifting but is also clutch

Yup, a 10 game run discounts a whole career of evidence!

I mean his work in those 10 games still looks like a strong All-NBA player rather than an MVP candidate

[Tr1boy]

Nope.  no reason to shrink the window for a player that tops out as a #2 who has a similar ceiling to Brown.

Are you serious?

Beal is elite

Beal has only ever been a #2 on teams that have been good though, just like Brown. Beal has never shown to be able to be a #1 guy on a good team, and would be much more expensive than JB as well as being older.

These past two years he has shown to be a #1.  This season, he is leading the league in PPG

Leading the league in PPG but #2 type player?

Yeah, but he's doing it on a terrible team. I doubt Beal gets 24 shots on any halfway decent team, and he's only ever been a #2 guy on good teams

They are 7-3 in their last 10 games

Much better than the Celts

If Bonga hits one open three we lose tonight. 

Beal has to do the heavy lifting but is also clutch

Yup, a 10 game run discounts a whole career of evidence!

You are discounting Beal capability/growth... which is kind of crazy if you ask me

He is leading the league in ppg. He is clutch. You saw how he took over tonight. How he took over the last time Celts vs Wiz. 

Wiz 7 wins in last 9 games, he has been money

Teams build their D plan to slow him down. Yet he still produces/clutch

Your expectations are ... out of this world

He is not a number 1 calibre option?

[Jvalin]

In a vacuum, imo Beal > Brown. That said,

- Brown is 3 years younger
- he's locked up for 4 years on a team friendly contract
- he's the better 2-way player
- basketball-wise, I believe he's a better fit next to Tatum

I'd only consider the trade if I had serious long-term concerns over Brown's patellar tendonitis.

The only Brown trade I'd actively pursue would be a draft night trade for Cade Cunningham. I'm very high on Cunningham. For instance, let's say the Wizards win the lottery. They already got 2 win-now stars in Beal and Westbrook. It's possible they'd be willing to trade the #1 pick for a 3rd win-now star in Brown.

Cunningham + Bertans + Wagner for Brown

(or something along these lines)

[boscel33]

NO!

I've said it many times, we've wanted Kawhi and now we have one if not better.  Again, let's do the comparison, Jaylen's 5th to Beal's 5th years.

Beal:  23.1PPG, 3.1RBG, 3.5APG, 482FG%, 404PPT%
Brown:  25.0PPG, 5.5RPG, 4.0APG, 496FG%, 3853PT%

Give me Brown any day.

[gouki88]

Nope.  no reason to shrink the window for a player that tops out as a #2 who has a similar ceiling to Brown.

Are you serious?

Beal is elite

Beal has only ever been a #2 on teams that have been good though, just like Brown. Beal has never shown to be able to be a #1 guy on a good team, and would be much more expensive than JB as well as being older.

These past two years he has shown to be a #1.  This season, he is leading the league in PPG

Leading the league in PPG but #2 type player?

Yeah, but he's doing it on a terrible team. I doubt Beal gets 24 shots on any halfway decent team, and he's only ever been a #2 guy on good teams

They are 7-3 in their last 10 games

Much better than the Celts

If Bonga hits one open three we lose tonight. 

Beal has to do the heavy lifting but is also clutch

Yup, a 10 game run discounts a whole career of evidence!

You are discounting Beal capability/growth... which is kind of crazy if you ask me

He is leading the league in ppg. He is clutch. You saw how he took over tonight. How he took over the last time Celts vs Wiz. 

Wiz 7 wins in last 9 games, he has been money

Teams build their D plan to slow him down. Yet he still produces/clutch

Your expectations are ... out of this world

He is not a number 1 calibre option?

It's like you're not actually reading what I'm writing. Jvalin summed up my thinking pretty succinctly in his post

[Moranis]

Nope.  no reason to shrink the window for a player that tops out as a #2 who has a similar ceiling to Brown.

Are you serious?

Beal is elite

To be fair Tatum, Beal and Brown all look like they're going to 'top out as #2s' right now in an ideal situation. It doesn't mean that they can't be #1s on viable title contenders, they would just need more help than truly great players.

Tatum absolutely has #1, MVP level potential.  May not get there of course, but Tatum imo is a future franchise player.  His progression has been fantastic and he has all of the tools. I'd actually be surprised if Tatum doesn't have at least 1 top 5 season (i.e. top 5 MVP voting finish) in his career.

By that logic every half decent draft prospect has All-Star potential , my point was that it's unlikely that he'll get to that level.

And I sound like a broken record at this point, but accolades absolutely suck at evaluating how good a player is. It's very much possible Tatum can get a top 5 MVP finish this year if we go on a run just from our guys coming back and most people on this forum would say that it's undeserved. Heck, Anthony Davis has never had a top 5 MVP voting finish and a good amount of people would say that he's one of the best players in the league, if not the best.

There aren't many players in league history that make an All NBA Team in their 3rd year that don't end up as at a minimum perennial All NBA Team members.  And if you are a perennial All NBA Team member it isn't that much of a leap to be a a top 5 type guy.  Again given the super young age, the odds are definitely to the side of Tatum developing into that sort of player just given what he has already done in his first 3 years (which he has continued to progress now in year 4). 

Davis has two top 5 MVP finishes (5th in 15, 3rd in 18) and a 6th place finish (20 - he also finished 9th in 17).  He'd probably have more if he had been healthier throughout his career.  And that is playing on what have generally been mediocre teams (last year wasn't, but he also wasn't the best player on his own team).

[SHAQATTACK]

nooooooooooooooo.

Beal is nice piece to go with Tatum and Brown and Timelord.

need to get Brown and Tatum to entice people like Beal to force their way off to join Celtics.

[wdleehi]

No.   We have already seen the fit between Tatum and Brown.   It is good.   


The team needs to be looking to build around them, not replace them (unless a top 5 player in their prime is available) 

Beal is a better offensive player then Brown.   No clue if Brown would ever get to the level Beal is currently at.  Brown is a better defensive player then Beal.   Beal is never going to match the level Brown is going to get to.   

Overall right now, Beal is the better player.   But the difference is not worth the extra parts the Celtics would have to trade. 

[PhoSita]

No way.

The move to contend is to find some way to get Beal here to play alongside Tatum and Brown.

Trading Brown for Beal is a lateral move.

[LilRip]

If I were starting a franchise, I’d pick Beal over Brown. But I’d pick Tatum over either of them. Brown fills the role of a secondary star better because he’s a better defender and is more versatile.

Another problem the team runs into is that having Kemba and Beal on the same team feels redundant. Granted, if you have a chance to get a star, you should capitalize and then figure out how to make the pieces fit later (for example: maybe try to unload Kemba in the off-season). But the price of giving up Brown is steep for something that’ll shake up your team

[Birdman]

No way

[Somebody]

Nope.  no reason to shrink the window for a player that tops out as a #2 who has a similar ceiling to Brown.

Are you serious?

Beal is elite

To be fair Tatum, Beal and Brown all look like they're going to 'top out as #2s' right now in an ideal situation. It doesn't mean that they can't be #1s on viable title contenders, they would just need more help than truly great players.

Tatum absolutely has #1, MVP level potential.  May not get there of course, but Tatum imo is a future franchise player.  His progression has been fantastic and he has all of the tools. I'd actually be surprised if Tatum doesn't have at least 1 top 5 season (i.e. top 5 MVP voting finish) in his career.

By that logic every half decent draft prospect has All-Star potential , my point was that it's unlikely that he'll get to that level.

And I sound like a broken record at this point, but accolades absolutely suck at evaluating how good a player is. It's very much possible Tatum can get a top 5 MVP finish this year if we go on a run just from our guys coming back and most people on this forum would say that it's undeserved. Heck, Anthony Davis has never had a top 5 MVP voting finish and a good amount of people would say that he's one of the best players in the league, if not the best.

There aren't many players in league history that make an All NBA Team in their 3rd year that don't end up as at a minimum perennial All NBA Team members.  And if you are a perennial All NBA Team member it isn't that much of a leap to be a a top 5 type guy.  Again given the super young age, the odds are definitely to the side of Tatum developing into that sort of player just given what he has already done in his first 3 years (which he has continued to progress now in year 4). 

Davis has two top 5 MVP finishes (5th in 15, 3rd in 18) and a 6th place finish (20 - he also finished 9th in 17).  He'd probably have more if he had been healthier throughout his career.  And that is playing on what have generally been mediocre teams (last year wasn't, but he also wasn't the best player on his own team).

My bad about Davis. But the fact that he finished lower in his best year compared to his early prime years at least gives a bit of weight to my point that awards are generally unreliable at predicting how good a player is - he was qualitatively so much better than he was in '15 and '18 last season.

Paul George made an All-NBA and All-Defensive team in his third season at a similar age, but he was never a true MVP level player unless you think he deserved his 3rd placed finish in 2019 over the likes of Jokic, Curry, LeBron, Durant, Embiid and Kawhi lol. It's a huge leap to go from a perennial All-NBA candidate into a true MVP calibre player, it generally gets more and more difficult to improve the higher you go as a player.

[GreenCoffeeBean]

People on this board massively underrate Brown and slightly overrate Tatum. Brown is the second best player in the league at his position, behind only Klay Thompson.

[Somebody]

If I were starting a franchise, I’d pick Beal over Brown. But I’d pick Tatum over either of them. Brown fills the role of a secondary star better because he’s a better defender and is more versatile.

Another problem the team runs into is that having Kemba and Beal on the same team feels redundant. Granted, if you have a chance to get a star, you should capitalize and then figure out how to make the pieces fit later (for example: maybe try to unload Kemba in the off-season). But the price of giving up Brown is steep for something that’ll shake up your team

I'd take the guy who can maintain his value better next to better and better teammates. You're not going anywhere with Beal as your best player unless you have an incredible supporting cast around him, Brown gives you slightly worse floor raising (his defence makes up considerable ground, especially come playoff time) while being a considerably better ceiling raiser next to other on-ball talent.