Author Topic: What do we need to make the finals?  (Read 4441 times)

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Re: What do we need to make the finals?
« Reply #30 on: January 12, 2021, 07:34:11 PM »

Online gouki88

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Al Horford is what we need. Smart and Theis along with a portion of TPE would be worth the deal. Should leave us with enough to help bench after.
1) donít think TPEís can be combined with salary.

2) that is a genuinely awful deal for us. Horford is barely better than Theis and is much worse than Smart, let alone for his horrible contract
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Re: What do we need to make the finals?
« Reply #31 on: January 13, 2021, 10:55:26 PM »

Offline Hoopvortex

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Al Horford is what we need. Smart and Theis along with a portion of TPE would be worth the deal. Should leave us with enough to help bench after.
1) donít think TPEís can be combined with salary.

2) that is a genuinely awful deal for us. Horford is barely better than Theis and is much worse than Smart, let alone for his horrible contract

I'm positive about Horford, but he's on a salary a year and a half beyond when the Celtics were already unwilling to pay it. Does even that player still exist? He didn't do a lot last season to make us believe it. I wouldn't bet on the Celtics taking the back end of that contract, when they wouldn't take a risk on the front end.

As for the trade proposal, Smart is a core player and Theis had a better year than Horford. Yes, their games are different; but so, obviously, are their salaries.
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Re: What do we need to make the finals?
« Reply #32 on: January 13, 2021, 11:50:30 PM »

Offline trickybilly

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I know we've talked about this a million times, but we really should throw a lot the Wolves for Karl Anthony Towns. Not sure if it gets done without one of the Jays included, but even that might be worth it. I am prepared to cop a lot of spit for this suggestion.
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Re: What do we need to make the finals?
« Reply #33 on: January 14, 2021, 12:27:43 AM »

Offline GreenlyGreeny

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First and foremost, we need to wait for the Nets to have their turn. Iím just not seeing how we can add a third piece that brings Tatum/Brown up to the level of early 30s Harden/Durant/Irving. Not in 2021 and maybe not in 2022. Maybe if KAT becomes disgruntled and we get him somehow without giving up more than picks. Maybe if we somehow bring Jokic here in 2023. We definitely need an elite big man to get past them.

Re: What do we need to make the finals?
« Reply #34 on: January 14, 2021, 12:30:51 AM »

Offline GreenlyGreeny

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I know we've talked about this a million times, but we really should throw a lot the Wolves for Karl Anthony Towns. Not sure if it gets done without one of the Jays included, but even that might be worth it. I am prepared to cop a lot of spit for this suggestion.

TWolves are struggling. Maybe this deal gets it done if you add 2022 and 2024 swaps:

https://tradenba.com/trades/LZtq4D6sP

Re: What do we need to make the finals?
« Reply #35 on: January 14, 2021, 01:47:41 AM »

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if you come up with a reasonable way to get Jokic, let everyone know.
Tatum + fillers for Jokic. Poison pill provision would be a problem. I bet both teams would say no. :P

Personally speaking, I'd do it for the C's. We'd probably have to make more moves to balance the roster, but imo Jokic is a top 5 player in the league. Worst case scenario, top 6. Never gonna happen obviously. Just saying.
We can do that in the offseason ;)
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Re: What do we need to make the finals?
« Reply #36 on: January 14, 2021, 01:49:42 AM »

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I know we've talked about this a million times, but we really should throw a lot the Wolves for Karl Anthony Towns. Not sure if it gets done without one of the Jays included, but even that might be worth it. I am prepared to cop a lot of spit for this suggestion.
I love Towns, but we really need to know whether he's in a good state of mind right now after a horrible 2020 for him and his family. I think he definitely has the potential to be that next level guy (he's really close right now), but he needs to improve defensively while being able to shoulder a heavier offensive load/become elite at passing, and that doesn't happen if he isn't focused on playing basketball.
Jaylen for All-NBA

Re: What do we need to make the finals?
« Reply #37 on: January 14, 2021, 01:54:44 AM »

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if you come up with a reasonable way to get Jokic, let everyone know.
Tatum + fillers for Jokic. Poison pill provision would be a problem. I bet both teams would say no. :P

Personally speaking, I'd do it for the C's. We'd probably have to make more moves to balance the roster, but imo Jokic is a top 5 player in the league. Worst case scenario, top 6. Never gonna happen obviously. Just saying.

I wouldn't do it, but not because the value isn't there - it is. And it would be a fit for the long-standing visions of both Ainge and Stevens to play through a big.

When Ainge became an executive with the Celtics he mentioned two offenses that he'd like to emulate: Sacramento and Minnesota. The Kings at that time were playing through Divac and/or Webber and the TWolves were playing through Garnett. And of course it was only a few seasons later that Garnett was doing that in Boston.

Olynyk and especially Al Horford were used in that role effectively later on, but Jokic is a cut above the rest, maybe above every big ever.

On the other hand that is not such a great role for Theis or Thompson.

All the same, I think that the franchise's best long-term practice is to avoid churn and drastic changes, unless they're forced. Is Tatum a top-10 NBA player? Good chance, and his future looks even better than his present. If he's 11th best, and Jokic is 5th (or however you rank them), I say that's not a good enough difference.

I'm uncomfortable with ranking players so specifically anyway. How a guy is used, fatigue and injury, decline, different variabilities in performance, a big measure of plain luck, and, not least, the method you use to rank players, all affect how your list sorts out; and the number differences are minuscule.

Add to that that you're comparing players who do vastly different things on the court (e.g., Jokic and Tatum), and those comparisons really don't seem possible - at least at the level of #3, #9, #21, etc.

Can you win a championship with Tatum? I'd say yes, of course you can.

So, what does Boston need to get to the Finals.

I'll say first that I'm a little disappointed in the question. As Celtics fans, isn't the question supposed to be, 'how do you win Championship 18?' But oh well.

I'm opposed to acquiring James Harden. His willingness to damage the Rockets with irresponsible and team-detrimental behavior cannot be acceptable to the Boston Celtics. It's team-first around here, in case you hadn't heard.

I'm not excited about potential Orlando Magic trade targets, either, since the price tags are inflated for the value return.

No doubt there are other trade targets possible, but more than anything Boston needs a guy who can push the ball up the floor quicker, get the ball anywhere he needs to off the dribble, and then make a play. They need Kemba Walker.

He's a brilliant pnr ballhandler, and if he returns fully healthy, Thompson and especially Daniel Theis will have their games open up.

I pushed back most of last season on the idea that Boston needed a scorer 'off the bench', since there weren't enough shots to go around as it was. But with Hayward gone and Kemba injured, the usage is overwhelmingly shifted to two players.

Tatum is at 30.9% and Brown is at 29.2%. Third among rotation players is Teague at 18.3%. While this might be sustainable, if those two have good luck with injuries, it's a poor recipe for a really effective offense and for a rested duo in the playoffs.

They need Kemba. His usage last year was between the two Jays at 27.2, and his turnover% was between them, too.

Boston needs to get to the line more. Kemba did more often per fga than either of the Jays.

They need Kemba. If his knee is going to fall apart every spring, then they need someone else like him.
1. Tatum isn't near the top 11 right now with the return of KD and Curry, that's probably his ceiling.

2. The difference between a guy good enough to knock on the door of the "inner circle" MVPs like LeBron/Giannis/Kawhi/AD/KD/Curry and a perennial All-NBA player that Tatum's hoping to be is pretty significant - it's really difficult to break into the range that Jokic is in right now from the "All-NBA" band. I'm not saying that you can't win with that kind of guy as your best player, but you need a lot of talent around him (good examples would be the '04 Pistons and '14 Spurs where they had two players on that level with the Pistons having two more top 30 players and another top 40-50 defensive specialist, while the Spurs had three top 40-50 players in Manu/Kawhi/Green and a platoon of good role players to support Duncan/Parker). We can definitely do that if Kemba comes back 100% and Jaylen makes the leap, but it's infinitely more easy to compete for a title if you have a Jokic level guy where you can pair him with another star and a couple of Smarts instead of trying to vie for two Tatums, a Kemba and a couple of Smarts.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2021, 02:06:41 AM by Somebody »
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Re: What do we need to make the finals?
« Reply #38 on: January 14, 2021, 02:09:52 AM »

Offline jpotter33

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if you come up with a reasonable way to get Jokic, let everyone know.
Tatum + fillers for Jokic. Poison pill provision would be a problem. I bet both teams would say no. :P

Personally speaking, I'd do it for the C's. We'd probably have to make more moves to balance the roster, but imo Jokic is a top 5 player in the league. Worst case scenario, top 6. Never gonna happen obviously. Just saying.

I wouldn't do it, but not because the value isn't there - it is. And it would be a fit for the long-standing visions of both Ainge and Stevens to play through a big.

When Ainge became an executive with the Celtics he mentioned two offenses that he'd like to emulate: Sacramento and Minnesota. The Kings at that time were playing through Divac and/or Webber and the TWolves were playing through Garnett. And of course it was only a few seasons later that Garnett was doing that in Boston.

Olynyk and especially Al Horford were used in that role effectively later on, but Jokic is a cut above the rest, maybe above every big ever.

On the other hand that is not such a great role for Theis or Thompson.

All the same, I think that the franchise's best long-term practice is to avoid churn and drastic changes, unless they're forced. Is Tatum a top-10 NBA player? Good chance, and his future looks even better than his present. If he's 11th best, and Jokic is 5th (or however you rank them), I say that's not a good enough difference.

I'm uncomfortable with ranking players so specifically anyway. How a guy is used, fatigue and injury, decline, different variabilities in performance, a big measure of plain luck, and, not least, the method you use to rank players, all affect how your list sorts out; and the number differences are minuscule.

Add to that that you're comparing players who do vastly different things on the court (e.g., Jokic and Tatum), and those comparisons really don't seem possible - at least at the level of #3, #9, #21, etc.

Can you win a championship with Tatum? I'd say yes, of course you can.

So, what does Boston need to get to the Finals.

I'll say first that I'm a little disappointed in the question. As Celtics fans, isn't the question supposed to be, 'how do you win Championship 18?' But oh well.

I'm opposed to acquiring James Harden. His willingness to damage the Rockets with irresponsible and team-detrimental behavior cannot be acceptable to the Boston Celtics. It's team-first around here, in case you hadn't heard.

I'm not excited about potential Orlando Magic trade targets, either, since the price tags are inflated for the value return.

No doubt there are other trade targets possible, but more than anything Boston needs a guy who can push the ball up the floor quicker, get the ball anywhere he needs to off the dribble, and then make a play. They need Kemba Walker.

He's a brilliant pnr ballhandler, and if he returns fully healthy, Thompson and especially Daniel Theis will have their games open up.

I pushed back most of last season on the idea that Boston needed a scorer 'off the bench', since there weren't enough shots to go around as it was. But with Hayward gone and Kemba injured, the usage is overwhelmingly shifted to two players.

Tatum is at 30.9% and Brown is at 29.2%. Third among rotation players is Teague at 18.3%. While this might be sustainable, if those two have good luck with injuries, it's a poor recipe for a really effective offense and for a rested duo in the playoffs.

They need Kemba. His usage last year was between the two Jays at 27.2, and his turnover% was between them, too.

Boston needs to get to the line more. Kemba did more often per fga than either of the Jays.

They need Kemba. If his knee is going to fall apart every spring, then they need someone else like him.
1. Tatum isn't near the top 11 right now with the return of KD and Curry, that's probably his ceiling.

2. The difference between a guy good enough to knock on the door of the "inner circle" MVPs like LeBron/Giannis/Kawhi/AD/KD/Curry and a perennial All-NBA player that Tatum's hoping to be is pretty significant - it's really difficult to break into the range that Jokic is in right now from the "All-NBA" band. I'm not saying that you can't win with that kind of guy as your best player, but you need a lot of talent around him (good examples would be the '04 Pistons and '14 Spurs where they had two players on that level with the Pistons having two more top 30 players and another top 40-50 defensive specialist, while the Spurs had three top 40-50 players in Manu/Kawhi/Green and a platoon of good role players to support Duncan/Parker). We can definitely do that if Kemba comes back 100% and Jaylen makes the leap, but it's infinitely more easy to compete for a title if you have a Jokic level guy where you can pair him with another star and a couple of Smarts instead of trying to cobble two stars and a couple of Smarts to support Tatum.

Tatum is pretty clearly better than Curry this year. Their counting stats are a wash, but Tatum is substantially more efficient and also is much better and more impactful defensively.
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Re: What do we need to make the finals?
« Reply #39 on: January 14, 2021, 03:05:06 AM »

Offline nickagneta

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I know we've talked about this a million times, but we really should throw a lot the Wolves for Karl Anthony Towns. Not sure if it gets done without one of the Jays included, but even that might be worth it. I am prepared to cop a lot of spit for this suggestion.

TWolves are struggling. Maybe this deal gets it done if you add 2022 and 2024 swaps:

https://tradenba.com/trades/LZtq4D6sP
Lol...KAT's going to be your new "Make a million trade proposals for" Binkie, isn't he? 😉😄😁😂

Re: What do we need to make the finals?
« Reply #40 on: January 14, 2021, 04:55:51 AM »

Online Somebody

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if you come up with a reasonable way to get Jokic, let everyone know.
Tatum + fillers for Jokic. Poison pill provision would be a problem. I bet both teams would say no. :P

Personally speaking, I'd do it for the C's. We'd probably have to make more moves to balance the roster, but imo Jokic is a top 5 player in the league. Worst case scenario, top 6. Never gonna happen obviously. Just saying.

I wouldn't do it, but not because the value isn't there - it is. And it would be a fit for the long-standing visions of both Ainge and Stevens to play through a big.

When Ainge became an executive with the Celtics he mentioned two offenses that he'd like to emulate: Sacramento and Minnesota. The Kings at that time were playing through Divac and/or Webber and the TWolves were playing through Garnett. And of course it was only a few seasons later that Garnett was doing that in Boston.

Olynyk and especially Al Horford were used in that role effectively later on, but Jokic is a cut above the rest, maybe above every big ever.

On the other hand that is not such a great role for Theis or Thompson.

All the same, I think that the franchise's best long-term practice is to avoid churn and drastic changes, unless they're forced. Is Tatum a top-10 NBA player? Good chance, and his future looks even better than his present. If he's 11th best, and Jokic is 5th (or however you rank them), I say that's not a good enough difference.

I'm uncomfortable with ranking players so specifically anyway. How a guy is used, fatigue and injury, decline, different variabilities in performance, a big measure of plain luck, and, not least, the method you use to rank players, all affect how your list sorts out; and the number differences are minuscule.

Add to that that you're comparing players who do vastly different things on the court (e.g., Jokic and Tatum), and those comparisons really don't seem possible - at least at the level of #3, #9, #21, etc.

Can you win a championship with Tatum? I'd say yes, of course you can.

So, what does Boston need to get to the Finals.

I'll say first that I'm a little disappointed in the question. As Celtics fans, isn't the question supposed to be, 'how do you win Championship 18?' But oh well.

I'm opposed to acquiring James Harden. His willingness to damage the Rockets with irresponsible and team-detrimental behavior cannot be acceptable to the Boston Celtics. It's team-first around here, in case you hadn't heard.

I'm not excited about potential Orlando Magic trade targets, either, since the price tags are inflated for the value return.

No doubt there are other trade targets possible, but more than anything Boston needs a guy who can push the ball up the floor quicker, get the ball anywhere he needs to off the dribble, and then make a play. They need Kemba Walker.

He's a brilliant pnr ballhandler, and if he returns fully healthy, Thompson and especially Daniel Theis will have their games open up.

I pushed back most of last season on the idea that Boston needed a scorer 'off the bench', since there weren't enough shots to go around as it was. But with Hayward gone and Kemba injured, the usage is overwhelmingly shifted to two players.

Tatum is at 30.9% and Brown is at 29.2%. Third among rotation players is Teague at 18.3%. While this might be sustainable, if those two have good luck with injuries, it's a poor recipe for a really effective offense and for a rested duo in the playoffs.

They need Kemba. His usage last year was between the two Jays at 27.2, and his turnover% was between them, too.

Boston needs to get to the line more. Kemba did more often per fga than either of the Jays.

They need Kemba. If his knee is going to fall apart every spring, then they need someone else like him.
1. Tatum isn't near the top 11 right now with the return of KD and Curry, that's probably his ceiling.

2. The difference between a guy good enough to knock on the door of the "inner circle" MVPs like LeBron/Giannis/Kawhi/AD/KD/Curry and a perennial All-NBA player that Tatum's hoping to be is pretty significant - it's really difficult to break into the range that Jokic is in right now from the "All-NBA" band. I'm not saying that you can't win with that kind of guy as your best player, but you need a lot of talent around him (good examples would be the '04 Pistons and '14 Spurs where they had two players on that level with the Pistons having two more top 30 players and another top 40-50 defensive specialist, while the Spurs had three top 40-50 players in Manu/Kawhi/Green and a platoon of good role players to support Duncan/Parker). We can definitely do that if Kemba comes back 100% and Jaylen makes the leap, but it's infinitely more easy to compete for a title if you have a Jokic level guy where you can pair him with another star and a couple of Smarts instead of trying to cobble two stars and a couple of Smarts to support Tatum.

Tatum is pretty clearly better than Curry this year. Their counting stats are a wash, but Tatum is substantially more efficient and also is much better and more impactful defensively.
Without getting into how the counting stats don't even come close to measuring player impact all that well (you usually miss qualitative stuff with the raw numbers), they aren't a wash at all.

Curry box stats per 75: 27.9 points, 6.38 assists, 3.1 TOs
Tatum box stats per 75: 27.98 points, 3.98 assists, 2.48 TOs

Curry dwarfs Tatum when it comes to playmaking even in the box score (the box score doesn't even quite capture Curry's insane gravity and passing ability that is in a different universe compared to the likes of Tatum), and that's not even taking Curry's incredibly scalable game into account, his ability to be an offensive savant that can oscillate on and off the ball is something that Tatum can only dream of.

Also not sure where are you getting the numbers that say Tatum is more efficient than Curry unless you're still in love with the raw efficiency slash line, Curry has a 59.9% TS this season with uncharacteristically poor shooting while Tatum is at 58.8% on the back of a scorching hot start to the season by his standards - the gap between the two will only widen as both players regress to the mean.

Tatum is definitely way better than Curry on defence (rebounds/stocks as well as the eye test, adjusted +/- metrics and tracking data make this very obvious), but he isn't a titanic big man who vaults teams into the upper stratosphere defensively by himself, so any advantage he has over an average to above average guard defender like Curry doesn't even come close to closing the massive chasm between the two offensively.
Jaylen for All-NBA

Re: What do we need to make the finals?
« Reply #41 on: January 14, 2021, 06:54:37 AM »

Offline Jvalin

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We may need nothing. If we have no major injury concerns during the playoffs (which is a huge if), it's possible that we make the Finals this season. I'm relatively low on Brooklyn. Their D sucks. Harden is possibly the most ball dominant player in the NBA. To a lesser extent, the same goes for Kyrie, plus he's a drama queen. Don't think he'll be happy as the 3rd banana. Anyway, my #1 concern is still Milwaukee. Imo, we match up terribly against them. But then again, they match up poorly against Miami. Thompson should be a solid option for us against Giannis.

Can't think of 1 single realistic move that would make us legit contenders this season. If I were Danny, I'd be open to the idea of trading Kemba with the view to rebuilding the team on the fly around the Js.

I'm kind of disappointed that we weren't part of the 4-way blockbuster for Harden. Imo, it was a great opportunity to land our starting Center for years to come in Jarrett Allen.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2021, 07:06:56 AM by Jvalin »

Re: What do we need to make the finals?
« Reply #42 on: January 14, 2021, 09:55:39 AM »

Offline RJ87

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First and foremost, we need to wait for the Nets to have their turn. Iím just not seeing how we can add a third piece that brings Tatum/Brown up to the level of early 30s Harden/Durant/Irving. Not in 2021 and maybe not in 2022. Maybe if KAT becomes disgruntled and we get him somehow without giving up more than picks. Maybe if we somehow bring Jokic here in 2023. We definitely need an elite big man to get past them.

Lolololol, what?

There's always going to be a superteam in the NBA. Always. That's where the league is these days. Whether it's Lebron's Heatles, the Curry Warriors, Lebron's Cavs, the KD/Curry Warriors, or Lebron in LA, there's always going to be a team that people believe to be invincible and while you're waiting for them to fade out, another superteam we didn't foresee is going to take it's place.

You build your team, you compete and you put yourself in a situation to take advantage of an opportunity to do something special like Dallas and Toronto. This wait to get your turn is so nonsensical. Turns aren't guaranteed one way or the other.

Re: What do we need to make the finals?
« Reply #43 on: January 14, 2021, 11:00:49 AM »

Offline colincb

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if you come up with a reasonable way to get Jokic, let everyone know.
Tatum + fillers for Jokic. Poison pill provision would be a problem. I bet both teams would say no. :P

Personally speaking, I'd do it for the C's. We'd probably have to make more moves to balance the roster, but imo Jokic is a top 5 player in the league. Worst case scenario, top 6. Never gonna happen obviously. Just saying.

I wouldn't do it, but not because the value isn't there - it is. And it would be a fit for the long-standing visions of both Ainge and Stevens to play through a big.

When Ainge became an executive with the Celtics he mentioned two offenses that he'd like to emulate: Sacramento and Minnesota. The Kings at that time were playing through Divac and/or Webber and the TWolves were playing through Garnett. And of course it was only a few seasons later that Garnett was doing that in Boston.

Olynyk and especially Al Horford were used in that role effectively later on, but Jokic is a cut above the rest, maybe above every big ever.

On the other hand that is not such a great role for Theis or Thompson.

All the same, I think that the franchise's best long-term practice is to avoid churn and drastic changes, unless they're forced. Is Tatum a top-10 NBA player? Good chance, and his future looks even better than his present. If he's 11th best, and Jokic is 5th (or however you rank them), I say that's not a good enough difference.

I'm uncomfortable with ranking players so specifically anyway. How a guy is used, fatigue and injury, decline, different variabilities in performance, a big measure of plain luck, and, not least, the method you use to rank players, all affect how your list sorts out; and the number differences are minuscule.

Add to that that you're comparing players who do vastly different things on the court (e.g., Jokic and Tatum), and those comparisons really don't seem possible - at least at the level of #3, #9, #21, etc.

Can you win a championship with Tatum? I'd say yes, of course you can.

So, what does Boston need to get to the Finals.

I'll say first that I'm a little disappointed in the question. As Celtics fans, isn't the question supposed to be, 'how do you win Championship 18?' But oh well.

I'm opposed to acquiring James Harden. His willingness to damage the Rockets with irresponsible and team-detrimental behavior cannot be acceptable to the Boston Celtics. It's team-first around here, in case you hadn't heard.

I'm not excited about potential Orlando Magic trade targets, either, since the price tags are inflated for the value return.

No doubt there are other trade targets possible, but more than anything Boston needs a guy who can push the ball up the floor quicker, get the ball anywhere he needs to off the dribble, and then make a play. They need Kemba Walker.

He's a brilliant pnr ballhandler, and if he returns fully healthy, Thompson and especially Daniel Theis will have their games open up.

I pushed back most of last season on the idea that Boston needed a scorer 'off the bench', since there weren't enough shots to go around as it was. But with Hayward gone and Kemba injured, the usage is overwhelmingly shifted to two players.

Tatum is at 30.9% and Brown is at 29.2%. Third among rotation players is Teague at 18.3%. While this might be sustainable, if those two have good luck with injuries, it's a poor recipe for a really effective offense and for a rested duo in the playoffs.

They need Kemba. His usage last year was between the two Jays at 27.2, and his turnover% was between them, too.

Boston needs to get to the line more. Kemba did more often per fga than either of the Jays.

They need Kemba. If his knee is going to fall apart every spring, then they need someone else like him.
1. Tatum isn't near the top 11 right now with the return of KD and Curry, that's probably his ceiling.

2. The difference between a guy good enough to knock on the door of the "inner circle" MVPs like LeBron/Giannis/Kawhi/AD/KD/Curry and a perennial All-NBA player that Tatum's hoping to be is pretty significant - it's really difficult to break into the range that Jokic is in right now from the "All-NBA" band. I'm not saying that you can't win with that kind of guy as your best player, but you need a lot of talent around him (good examples would be the '04 Pistons and '14 Spurs where they had two players on that level with the Pistons having two more top 30 players and another top 40-50 defensive specialist, while the Spurs had three top 40-50 players in Manu/Kawhi/Green and a platoon of good role players to support Duncan/Parker). We can definitely do that if Kemba comes back 100% and Jaylen makes the leap, but it's infinitely more easy to compete for a title if you have a Jokic level guy where you can pair him with another star and a couple of Smarts instead of trying to cobble two stars and a couple of Smarts to support Tatum.

Tatum is pretty clearly better than Curry this year. Their counting stats are a wash, but Tatum is substantially more efficient and also is much better and more impactful defensively.
Without getting into how the counting stats don't even come close to measuring player impact all that well (you usually miss qualitative stuff with the raw numbers), they aren't a wash at all.

Curry box stats per 75: 27.9 points, 6.38 assists, 3.1 TOs
Tatum box stats per 75: 27.98 points, 3.98 assists, 2.48 TOs

Curry dwarfs Tatum when it comes to playmaking even in the box score (the box score doesn't even quite capture Curry's insane gravity and passing ability that is in a different universe compared to the likes of Tatum), and that's not even taking Curry's incredibly scalable game into account, his ability to be an offensive savant that can oscillate on and off the ball is something that Tatum can only dream of.

Also not sure where are you getting the numbers that say Tatum is more efficient than Curry unless you're still in love with the raw efficiency slash line, Curry has a 59.9% TS this season with uncharacteristically poor shooting while Tatum is at 58.8% on the back of a scorching hot start to the season by his standards - the gap between the two will only widen as both players regress to the mean.

Tatum is definitely way better than Curry on defence (rebounds/stocks as well as the eye test, adjusted +/- metrics and tracking data make this very obvious), but he isn't a titanic big man who vaults teams into the upper stratosphere defensively by himself, so any advantage he has over an average to above average guard defender like Curry doesn't even come close to closing the massive chasm between the two offensively.


There's virtually no overall difference between the two players this year as the advanced stats show.

https://tinyurl.com/SCvsJT

Re: What do we need to make the finals?
« Reply #44 on: January 14, 2021, 11:24:51 AM »

Offline colincb

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We may need nothing. If we have no major injury concerns during the playoffs (which is a huge if), it's possible that we make the Finals this season. I'm relatively low on Brooklyn. Their D sucks. Harden is possibly the most ball dominant player in the NBA. To a lesser extent, the same goes for Kyrie, plus he's a drama queen. Don't think he'll be happy as the 3rd banana. Anyway, my #1 concern is still Milwaukee. Imo, we match up terribly against them. But then again, they match up poorly against Miami. Thompson should be a solid option for us against Giannis.

Can't think of 1 single realistic move that would make us legit contenders this season. If I were Danny, I'd be open to the idea of trading Kemba with the view to rebuilding the team on the fly around the Js.

I'm kind of disappointed that we weren't part of the 4-way blockbuster for Harden. Imo, it was a great opportunity to land our starting Center for years to come in Jarrett Allen.

- I fear BKN more than MIL, but who knows until we see what's up with Kyrie, never mind their defensive issues.

- Tell me what's available at the trading deadline and I'll tell you if there's a deal that can help us.

- Why would BKN include us in the deal when they could ship Allen to the Cavs where he won't come back to haunt anyone in the near future?